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HiRez Poll Yes - RELAYER [DVD-A/BluRay Audio]

Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:

Rate the DVD-A/BDA of Yes - RELAYER


  • Total voters
    59

JonUrban

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Please post your thoughts and comments on the 2014 5.1 remix by Steven Wilson of the classic Yes album "Relayer", available in a CD\DVD-Audio or CD\Blu-Ray Audio package. (n):phones(y)

Pre-Release discussion thread: https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?19482

As always, please use this thread for comments after you have heard the disc, and not for side discussions not specific to this title.
THANKS!


Yes Relayer BDA Front.jpg

Yes Relayer DVDA Back.jpg
 

bangdrum6

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Surprise in the mail today. The clarity and depth is good. You can hear how sections are pieced together, which is fine. I like it a lot so far. Listening to the bluray now on my 5.1 logitech Z906s which has limitations. I will give it a thorough spin on my Harman Kardon system tomorrow ( my birthday ). Cha Cha Cha - Cha Cha
 

DennisMoore Jr.

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Three Of A Perfect Pair.

three YES 1200.jpg

Hi Jon :) Please accept these humble scans from my BluRay which arrived yesterday from Steven Wilson's Headphone Dust Store.
(I tried to keep the size down, but to also include a "snapshot" of the true beauty of this particular release.

Booklet(partial):

booklet 1200.jpg


booklet 1 1200.jpg


booklet 2 1200.jpg


Discs 1200.jpg


And a real nice photo from the booklet:

Tolstoy.jpg


"The strongest of all warriors are these two - Time & Patience, yet he who commands
joy & happiness hath dominion above all"
- Tolstoy with some help from DennisMoore jr.


"Don't doubt your part, be ready to be loved" - Jon Anderson
 

IMachine

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As requested....copy and paste from the other thread:

Hm. I heard the 5.1 mix yesterday for the first time and my feelings are mixed as they was with CTTE.
Perhaps it is very difficult to do a good surround mix if there are too many channels on the mix and you do not have the chance of seperate track for all.
In my opinion Gates Of Delirium is not a surround flash experience.
Some Keyboards are too loud, some guitar works too silent.
I prefer the stereo version.

To Be Over has the best surround mix here. I really love this.
Sound Chaser is ok.

The XTC release has flashed me more.

An 8, because it is a Yes classic and the bonus content is also very nice.

Update: I received my new KEF XQ 30 that replace my XQ 10 for use of rears.

Everything is sooooo big and fat now...,
So I listened to Relayer again.
Still I think To Be Over is the best one, but GOD :))) is much better now.
I upgrade to a 9. :)

Peace
 

IanProudfoot

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I'm not sure what to say about this. As it arrived in the same week as XTC's Drums and Wires I was hoping for a similar level of clarity and excitement. However I find the mix painfully harsh and dense - forcing me to listen at reduced volume to save my ears! I've loved this album for many years, but I have to say that this is by quite a long way the weakest Steven Wilson remix that I have listened to. There are many signs that it could have been wonderful, parts of Sound Chaser hint at what could have been. So it 'only' 7/10 from me.
 

ssully

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You rather disliked the mix but still gave it a 7. I have to wonder again what would prompt listeners here to give a '5' or less to *any* release. Perhaps a 1-10 scale is not really 'resolving'?

Btw had you ever heard the album before? It *IS* is dense recording.
 

IanProudfoot

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You rather disliked the mix but still gave it a 7. I have to wonder again what would prompt listeners here to give a '5' or less to *any* release. Perhaps a 1-10 scale is not really 'resolving'?

Btw had you ever heard the album before? It *IS* is dense recording.
Yes I gave it a 7 because the CONTENT is wonderful - by that I mean the music as played by the band. That will always be true to me. However the dense recording has hidden some of the enjoyable aspects of the music. I had hoped that this release would open out the sound. SW has achieved this in the past, but not to the same extent here. Yes I do know the album very well, I have owned the vinyl version since about 1978.

Regarding the scoring system I am always amazed how many releases score 10. Is this an absolute score against all music? I very rarely give anything a 10, because I don't know what a perfect 10 would sound like. Also I would never buy a disc where I know that the content scores 5 or less. Just my own interpretation, make of it what you will.
 

ssully

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You're concurred with my point, really. The existence of so many '10s' suggests the rating system is broken and/or a joke. Its like Lake Wobegon, where all the children are above average. Here, they're usually *way* above average.

What would listeners here call a '5' or, god forbid, a '1'? As it stands, releases get a few points just for *existing* as surround.
 

IanProudfoot

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You're concurred with my point, really. The existence of so many '10s' suggests the rating system is broken and/or a joke. Its like Lake Wobegon, where all the children are above average. Here, they're usually *way* above average.

What would listeners here call a '5' or, god forbid, a '1'? As it stands, releases get a few points just for *existing* as surround.
Agreed, it's similar to the loudness wars, but where everything is better than everything else. I don't think it's possible to make anyone follow a truly scientific approach to scoring, after all the score is more of an emotional reaction than anything else.
 

keenly

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You're concurred with my point, really. The existence of so many '10s' suggests the rating system is broken and/or a joke. Its like Lake Wobegon, where all the children are above average. Here, they're usually *way* above average.

What would listeners here call a '5' or, god forbid, a '1'? As it stands, releases get a few points just for *existing* as surround.
I rated Soundgarden 1 after a single listen. I was so angry after paying for the box set.
 

timbre4

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On average we are getting desired classic albums in very high quality. Lest we forget the surround landscape used to be littered with silver line trash and that's what deservedly earned Low scores.


From QQ deep space
 

bangsezmax

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You're concurred with my point, really. The existence of so many '10s' suggests the rating system is broken and/or a joke. Its like Lake Wobegon, where all the children are above average. Here, they're usually *way* above average.

What would listeners here call a '5' or, god forbid, a '1'? As it stands, releases get a few points just for *existing* as surround.
People do have different reactions to different mixes. In my rig, the front/rear/center/sub can all be mixed separately and 'dialed in'. That can make a huge difference.

Since the overall poll starts around a 5, I'd suggest subtracting 5 from the average and doubling the remainder. That would widen out the range into something (perhaps) more meaningful.

This release (albeit with only three reviews) would be a 7.33. The new XTC would be a 9.47.
 

keenly

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On average we are getting desired classic albums in very high quality. Lest we forget the surround landscape used to be littered with silver line trash and that's what deservedly earned Low scores.


From QQ deep space
Indeed, but I would love some modern releases. I do not mean mainstream albums, but the likes of Kamelot, Riverside, Epica, Megadeth etc. SW is close to Riverside so it could happen.

I recommend Pendragon to anybody that likes Yes; their music would be perfect for 5.1.
 

keenly

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In light of the mixed reviews; I will just buy it and judge, will give my honest comments shortly.
 

fredblue

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Lots of interesting feedback so far.. Still waiting for it to turn up.. bloody Amazon, I knew I should have got it from BS! :howl
 

Clint Eastwood

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Agreed, it's similar to the loudness wars, but where everything is better than everything else. I don't think it's possible to make anyone follow a truly scientific approach to scoring, after all the score is more of an emotional reaction than anything else.
There are many factors that influence people on these polls....there are emotional responses after after a single play(I've felt this way myself but I wouldn't vote on a single play)...some people have a bias toward some formats...some don't like the content of a disc...and a lot of these polls were started 10 years ago and a lot can change in that period...you could have updated your audio equipment and become more well versed in audio matters and made more improvements in your listening area(that's me)since your first listen...people who just joined the hobby have different feelings than veterans of the "surround" wars...

I do use the polls as a guideline to select my core group of reviewers...people who have similar musical opinions about titles I already own...they usually give me a clear indication of the sound quality of the disc and that's what I am most concerned with...I can review the content on other sources first...

The content of music is very very subjective....everybody has different tastes and there are no wrong answers there.....but sound quality shouldn't be that hard to determine...if it sounds compressed/bright I don't want it...for me it's that simple...I can live with mild surround effects or none at all....but ear bleeding music just won't get it done for me...that's why I abandoned CD's(until I started following the Dynamic Range data base and selectively buy some now) and searched for something better..
 
Last edited:

DennisMoore Jr.

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Here's my review of the BluRay:

"It was still a very sad time with the Vietnam mess lingering in my mind and the cold war....there seemed no end to the cycle of warmongering around the world." - Jon Anderson speaking of the creating forces behind Relayer.

I've been a Relayer critic since 1976 over its general harshness of sound. Well silly me, the damn thing was meant to have an edge! For those (including myself)expecting Steven Wilson's 2.0/5.1 remixes to sound as smooth as Pink Floyd Us & Them, well we are in for a very long wait. Me personally, I could have dug a bit of smoothness to the overall sound, but that would have violated Steven Wilson's prime directive, to never deviate from the original feel of the source recording. Point is, I will not subtract points for a 5.1 remix with an edge, just like the original release...

But first! Let's play Spot The Looney in this thread:
Yes, that's right, many Loonies can be spotted here who are not posting an actual review of YES - Relayer! Some things never change I guess. Please keep regular comments out of these poll/review threads!

For my review I played Relayer for FOUR HOURS, I've never played a new 5.1 remix for that long continuously, but I was simply smitten by what I was hearing.

This is another Steven Wilson reference mix. For those who find fault I strongly suggest you check out your particular system for accuracy before you take apart this mix.

Some folks have posted that Gates was not spread out enough. :mad:@: :mad:@: :mad:@: There are parts in G.O.D. that have the prime guitar far right surround and keys far left surround! This mix is spread out laddie! I guess we all hear the same music quite differently and we always will...

I have found the original 2.0 recording of G.O.D. to be a bit annoying during the battle scene. Not anymore, the 5.1 remix has a much better balance of music to incidental war sounds. In general, the bass is much deeper and more punchy, Steven Wilson shows his talents(as usual) here. My only gripe could be that I expected more clarity and shimmering from Alan's cymbals, but I have no idea if perhaps the drums were a submix on the original multi-track and Steven couldn't control individual tom toms or cymbals or hi-hat. Who knows?

Sound Chaser
: I can feel the keys of the Fender Rhodes piano clicking as Moraz performs his lightning fast runs to open the piece. The final high speed cha cha cha is not as noisy as the original recording and is much more clear.

To Be Over is a masterpiece of a 5.1 remix. Although its orchestral nature would shine more easily in surround as compared to G.O.D., so no slight to the other two songs.

Oh, the 2.0 remix(Auditioned on a fine set of near field monitors w/a Velodyne subwoofer) puts all prior CDs in the dust bin, never to be heard from again. WOW! What a difference.

Steven Wilson has produced another reference 5.1 remix. This is just as good as Gentle Giant - Power & The Glory. YES - Relayer is not easy listening, but for those of us who love YES and this album in particular, this release is nothing less than a gift from above. I am very grateful to YES & Steven Wilson and all who took part to produce this magnificent release. Oh, the art and design and booklet are FANTASTIC with great information about the recording. I never knew that the Fender Rhodes intro(Sound Chaser) was made up on the spot as part of Patrick Moraz's audition for the band! It just goes to show how supremely talented these musicians are. Wow.
 

rtbluray

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I did vote a '10' for this release after hearing it, but it is a very reluctant '10'. Let me explain…

"Relayer" has NEVER been in my top 5 favorite Yes albums but it comes in close at #6, and a lot of that has to do with the emphasis on musicianship and arrangement at the expense of great songwriting ("Sound Chaser" in particular) combined with an overly harsh and yet very dead mix.

So once I heard that they were releasing a remixed version of "Relayer" following the releases of "Close to the Edge" and "The Yes Album" I was very hopeful that Steven Wilson would bring this album back to life in the same way that he did for "Aqualung" and "Lizard". I'm happy to say that at certain times, his remixes (stereo and surround) absolutely floor me, while at other times it falls short.

So let's start with the high point of these remixes and that's "The Gates of Delirium". Right from the opening chord, there is more clarity, depth, and space in this track than I have ever heard before. If anyone was expecting a carbon copy of the original stereo mix repurposed in surround, this is not for you. It IS a different mix, it is a different experience, but that's why it works so well. The drums have more energy and drive to them at times, and the harshness from the guitars and keyboards are largely gone. This is a track that is made for surround with a mixture of vocals, guitars, keyboards, and other effects spread out over the five channels. I also love how the drums and bass are largely anchored in the front channels as I always thought that certain surround remixes of Mr Wilson's ("Power & the Glory" and "Drums & Wires" in particular) suffered from an overabundance of drums in the surround channels. There's a certain part that sounds particularly good on this mix compared to the original and that's from around 7:00 in to 8:00 in when the battle scene begins.
This section is particularly effective in surround with Moraz's keyboards interplaying with Steve's guitars in the surrounds. I always loved these kinds of trade-offs in Yes music. Then around 10:30 when Chris Squire's riff comes in there is a degree of clarity that I have never heard before in this song, making that riff with the drums all the more powerful and driving, and especially at 11:30 when Steve joins in.
The sound effects in this section in the surrounds certainly make for a dizzying but enveloping experience.
Then after all the chaos comes peace. "SOON".
How gorgeous is this! Jon Anderson's voice on this song has never sounded more clear and present than it does emanating out of the center channel as the acoustic guitars and mellotrons gently float along in the surround channels. The last minute or so is particularly effective as the drums help the track to build until the final chord rings out.

SO, after all that, you might ask, "Well that sounds great! But does it get any better from there?" Unfortunately the answer is no. Just like "Close to the Edge", the opening track is the highlight of the surround experience.
So on to "Sound Chaser". I have never really been a fan of this track because I like have stated before, it suffers from too much of an overt display of musicianship at the expense of great songwriting. Overall it still doesn't sound that great however there are a few mix highlights. The toms in the opening minute of the track sound really full and present and spread out over the Quad channels. There are a few new details in the middle (slow) section that I am picking up on for the first time, and the cha-cha-chas at the end are quite fun. I really do believe that Steven did the best he could with this track, but you know what they say about polishing…

And finally "To Be Over". I firmly believe this is the best Yes song on both this album and "Tales from Topographic Oceans" combined, so did the surround mix live up to my expectations? Almost but not quite…Overall the surround mix serves the song. It's not going to be the bombastic experiences that "Gates" and "Sound Chaser" provide, but a more calming and soothing vibe is what's needed after all that. The cymbals swirl around you in the middle instrumental section as Howe glides along on the pedal steel guitar complemented by Moraz's keyboard tinkering. When the mellotrons enter, the excitement builds and you can just feel the goosebumps begin to appear, and then, there's a bit of a come-down…
The fact is on both the stereo and surround remixes of this track, Steven's mix of the vocals does not serve the song. They sound more separated and as a result some stick out in a not so pleasant way. Eddie Offord's original mix had a much better blend that sent shivers down my spine. This just leaves me wishing for the same experience.
Thankfully the last minute or so of this mix returns to being a positive experience as the counterpoint of the two melodic themes are now more clearly distinguishable showcasing a fine arrangement technique from Yes as it slowly fades back to silence yet again.

So, THAT is why I give this release a 'reluctant 10'. Obviously the sound quality is miles better than the original release, chocked full of extras, and "Gates" is easily one of the best surround mixes I have heard this year, but parts of "Sound Chaser" and "To Be Over" leave more to be desired, placing this one in last place among the Steven Wilson Yes remixes thus far.

I still encourage everyone though to check out this release as there is more to love than to hate, and now I'm just looking forward to the next Yes remix (hopefully in Spring 2015!) :)
 

blue.monk

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This may be my favorite of the SW Yes surround mixes thus far. It's an ambitious and (at times) challenging album and the mix serves the varied moods of the music exceedingly well - whether subdued and stationary or active and frenetic. The battle sequence in Gates is certainly a highlight for me. I can't imagine that anyone will miss the sound effects. I'm a big fan of this album and marvel at the musicianship. In particular Moraz does an amazing job in the keyboard chair - with tasteful contributions well beyond the flash of the Minimoog and electric piano (Rhodes on a Yes album!?). Oh, and the fidelity is greatly improved with none of the harshness (particularly in Gates) of the original. A 10 for me.

PS Nice to see some familiar names credited in the booklet. Congrats gentlemen. :)
 
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