YouTube Dirac setup discussion

[mandrix]

I was looking around for some more in depth details on setting up Dirac Live for my Onkyo TX-RZ50 and stumbled onto this video. Although this does not have to be specific for any particular AVR.
I had already looked at a video from Dirac (there may be more I have not seen) and I was singularly unimpressed.

This fellow however went into detail to explain how to download and use the Dirac software and use it on your pc. If your AVR already has Dirac in the firmware, then you are good to go free of charges, and you can either use the setup mic that came with your AVR or any omnidirectional mic for which you can obtain a calibration profile for.

Not only can you modify the responses the software makes (he shows how) but in the case of the Onkyo you can store up to 3 profiles in the AVR itself.

Anyway here's the link, I think it's very much worth looking at for those that might want to go beyond using the AVR built in speaker adjustment. I myself have not taken this final step but hope to soon.

 

[jamesc]

I was looking around for some more in depth details on setting up Dirac Live for my Onkyo TX-RZ50 and stumbled onto this video. Although this does not have to be specific for any particular AVR.
I had already looked at a video from Dirac (there may be more I have not seen) and I was singularly unimpressed.

This fellow however went into detail to explain how to download and use the Dirac software and use it on your pc. If your AVR already has Dirac in the firmware, then you are good to go free of charges, and you can either use the setup mic that came with your AVR or any omnidirectional mic for which you can obtain a calibration profile for.

Not only can you modify the responses the software makes (he shows how) but in the case of the Onkyo you can store up to 3 profiles in the AVR itself.

Anyway here's the link, I think it's very much worth looking at for those that might want to go beyond using the AVR built in speaker adjustment. I myself have not taken this final step but hope to soon.

Thanks for posting that link! I have the TX-RZ50 as well and there weren't too many YouTube videos or other guides on how to properly set things up with Dirac when I got mine. There was a lot of conflicting info in the guides that were out there so it was a bit confusing. Plus, with the Onkyo, there seems to be something unique with the level you need to set your subwoofer during the Dirac calibration process. I'm impressed with the sound of my system but there were a lot more hoops to jump through than with Audessey on my former Marantz AVR. I still think there's room for improvement with my setup so I'll definitely check out this video.

 

[mandrix]

Thanks for posting that link! I have the TX-RZ50 as well and there weren't too many YouTube videos or other guides on how to properly set things up with Dirac when I got mine. There was a lot of conflicting info in the guides that were out there so it was a bit confusing. Plus, with the Onkyo, there seems to be something unique with the level you need to set your subwoofer during the Dirac calibration process. I'm impressed with the sound of my system but there were a lot more hoops to jump through than with Audessey on my former Marantz AVR. I still think there's room for improvement with my setup so I'll definitely check out this video.

I started out yesterday to recalibrate because I moved some things around in the room and was going to use the Dirac Live on the pc. I was in a hurry and forgot I had to make an account on the Dirac site and log in. So the Onkyo defaulted to it's built in firmware and I just went with that since I had the house quiet for a short window and wanted to get through.

But I hope to revisit the Dirac live through the pc software soon and check it out. If you do, let us know how it goes! As the guy in the video noted, some things the Dirac may not get right like setting the crossovers like you want or the speaker volumes. In fact the built in Dirac had my Rs speaker sort of high. But the bass response from the front speakers is incredibly tight and the overall response from the speakers is much improved. I can only believe it will get better once I'm able to run it on the pc.

BTW I'm not currently running a sub. I do plan on trying to incorporate it back in and see if I want to keep it in the mix, but I'm getting some feedback hum so I ordered a 20 ft shielded cable and waiting on it to come in.

 

[jamesc]

I started out yesterday to recalibrate because I moved some things around in the room and was going to use the Dirac Live on the pc. I was in a hurry and forgot I had to make an account on the Dirac site and log in. So the Onkyo defaulted to it's built in firmware and I just went with that since I had the house quiet for a short window and wanted to get through.

But I hope to revisit the Dirac live through the pc software soon and check it out. If you do, let us know how it goes! As the guy in the video noted, some things the Dirac may not get right like setting the crossovers like you want or the speaker volumes. In fact the built in Dirac had my Rs speaker sort of high. But the bass response from the front speakers is incredibly tight and the overall response from the speakers is much improved. I can only believe it will get better once I'm able to run it on the pc.

BTW I'm not currently running a sub. I do plan on trying to incorporate it back in and see if I want to keep it in the mix, but I'm getting some feedback hum so I ordered a 20 ft shielded cable and waiting on it to come in.

Getting the house quiet for taking the mic measurements seems to be the real challenge! I don't know if it's my room acoustics or if something's up with my AVR or mic but I get the poor S/N message quite often while taking measurements and that can become maddening. It takes a while to cycle through the ten speakers in my setup and in that time inevitably a plane flies overhead or a loud truck drives by the house and I have to take that measurement over again. Other times though, I get the poor S/N message when there doesn't seem to be any noise whatsoever in the room so that's what makes it so frustrating for me. Hopefully, you'll have an easier time at your place. I haven't read too many complaints about that particular problem on the AVS forum.

It seems like I've done the Dirac calibration a million times, with the different versions of Dirac software and Onkyo firmware released over the months. I was also moving my sub around in my room and making other changes so the results varied a lot but I'm pretty happy with my current correction settings. I'll have to check out the video you posted and try again soon though.

Are you using the built in AccuEQ room correction then? I think the Onkyo defaults to that if you don't use a PC or cellphone and the Dirac app to calibrate. I've heard AccuEQ does a pretty good job but I haven't tried it so far.

 

[mandrix]

No, I'm using the Dirac as built into the firmware and the Onkyo cellphone app. I takes 9 points on the "full" measurement. I have had to turn the level down and start over, though. It's unfortunate with the built in Dirac that you can't seem to start out with a predefined level of volume, only adjust it while in the program. For me it starts over each time, only omitting the primary listening position.
With the pc version that should not be a problem, as I understand it.

But I feel your pain on the calibration. Yesterday I accidentally bumped a door with my foot. OOOPS! That was a dead stop. But the end results, when you get there, are worth it, at least mine were.
Much tighter bass response. Better localized sound from the speakers, if that makes sense.
I'm hoping that running the Dirac Live from the pc, with more adjustments available, will be even better.

Like you, the random noises intrude, even though I live in the "boonies" I have to deal with Air Force jets, trucks on the road, helicopters, etc etc, other times it's so quiet out here it's unreal. Just not when you're trying to calibrate your system. rotfl. phones ringing. arrrrghhhh! I always forget about phones, and it's always "unnamed". What's up with that? Well.. the dogs will bark or some fine person will come down the road with full huge bass speakers delivering max distortion at warp volume. (ever notice how distortion carries? yes I know so does LF)

I think I get a little less, only a little less obtrusion, from transient noise, as I have a large pc running in the room with many fans. Although pretty quiet it adds to the ambient noise measured I guess. Just don't cough! If the mic picks it up the software will prolly flag it. (I don't leave the room, I get on the floor out of line of sight of any speakers.)

 

[jamesc]

No, I'm using the Dirac as built into the firmware and the Onkyo cellphone app. I takes 9 points on the "full" measurement. I have had to turn the level down and start over, though. It's unfortunate with the built in Dirac that you can't seem to start out with a predefined level of volume, only adjust it while in the program. For me it starts over each time, only omitting the primary listening position.
With the pc version that should not be a problem, as I understand it.

But I feel your pain on the calibration. Yesterday I accidentally bumped a door with my foot. OOOPS! That was a dead stop. But the end results, when you get there, are worth it, at least mine were.
Much tighter bass response. Better localized sound from the speakers, if that makes sense.
I'm hoping that running the Dirac Live from the pc, with more adjustments available, will be even better.

Like you, the random noises intrude, even though I live in the "boonies" I have to deal with Air Force jets, trucks on the road, helicopters, etc etc, other times it's so quiet out here it's unreal. Just not when you're trying to calibrate your system. rotfl. phones ringing. arrrrghhhh! I always forget about phones, and it's always "unnamed". What's up with that? Well.. the dogs will bark or some fine person will come down the road with full huge bass speakers delivering max distortion at warp volume. (ever notice how distortion carries? yes I know so does LF)

I think I get a little less, only a little less obtrusion, from transient noise, as I have a large pc running in the room with many fans. Although pretty quiet it adds to the ambient noise measured I guess. Just don't cough! If the mic picks it up the software will prolly flag it. (I don't leave the room, I get on the floor out of line of sight of any speakers.)

Oh cool, I heard the cellphone app was improved quite a bit recently so I bet the results are great.

Haha! I totally agree on the random noises. It can truly be maddening taking those measurements and practically holding your breath to keep the noise down only to have a jet fly by when it gets to the ninth out of ten speakers!

My biggest problem is I did a massive upgrade of my system because I had waited so long. So, almost everything changed in my setup. I went from a 5.1 system using the earlier Audyssey XT to the Onkyo with Atmos. I also bought new speakers and sub and moved my listening position to the more centered spot shown in the Dolby documentation. I used to have the sofa at the back of the room. So, it was hard to compare with my old setup since so much changed.

The issue I'm running into is that some albums sound amazing on the new setup and some sound a bit off. I think the Dirac coupled with the new speakers produces a really nice, detailed sound but sometimes the mid-bass isn't quite right. I should have bought full size speakers but because of the size of my room, I chose bookshelves and I think that's where I'm running into trouble. Maybe Dirac is having trouble meshing the bookshelves with the sub. I may pick up some towers for the front pair to see if things improve. I'm sure I could improve things by messing with the settings some more though too.

The interesting thing is that movies pretty much always sound great on the setup. Maybe the sound is more standardized on films though.

 

[mandrix]

Oh cool, I heard the cellphone app was improved quite a bit recently so I bet the results are great.

Haha! I totally agree on the random noises. It can truly be maddening taking those measurements and practically holding your breath to keep the noise down only to have a jet fly by when it gets to the ninth out of ten speakers!

My biggest problem is I did a massive upgrade of my system because I had waited so long. So, almost everything changed in my setup. I went from a 5.1 system using the earlier Audyssey XT to the Onkyo with Atmos. I also bought new speakers and sub and moved my listening position to the more centered spot shown in the Dolby documentation. I used to have the sofa at the back of the room. So, it was hard to compare with my old setup since so much changed.

The issue I'm running into is that some albums sound amazing on the new setup and some sound a bit off. I think the Dirac coupled with the new speakers produces a really nice, detailed sound but sometimes the mid-bass isn't quite right. I should have bought full size speakers but because of the size of my room, I chose bookshelves and I think that's where I'm running into trouble. Maybe Dirac is having trouble meshing the bookshelves with the sub. I may pick up some towers for the front pair to see if things improve. I'm sure I could improve things by messing with the settings some more though too.

The interesting thing is that movies pretty much always sound great on the setup. Maybe the sound is more standardized on films though.

Well on the pc app you can make some manual adjustments for each speaker, and you can pair up or group similar speakers....you might find that Dirac isn't getting the your speaker responses exactly right, or, you just want to tune it a little different.

Have you checked to see where the crossover settings are being set?

To me the best thing about all the setup programs is getting the speaker delays set to the "sweet" spot. But on the pc app you can have the sweet spot be localized very tightly or spread out for a couch for several people, etc. There's always room for adjustment because our ears are the best tuning instrument.

I've not used my sub much in a long time, and as I said right now I have an annoying feedback hum. I'm hoping getting a new shielded cable will take care of that. But I'm not convinced yet I want to incorporate the sub back in....we'll see if Dirac can change my mind about it. I read some notes on the Dirac site where they say to leave the phase on the sub set at 0 and the software will take care of that. I don't know if that applies to both the built in firmware or just the pc/Mac version.

 

[jamesc]

Well on the pc app you can make some manual adjustments for each speaker, and you can pair up or group similar speakers....you might find that Dirac isn't getting the your speaker responses exactly right, or, you just want to tune it a little different.

Have you checked to see where the crossover settings are being set?

To me the best thing about all the setup programs is getting the speaker delays set to the "sweet" spot. But on the pc app you can have the sweet spot be localized very tightly or spread out for a couch for several people, etc. There's always room for adjustment because our ears are the best tuning instrument.

I've not used my sub much in a long time, and as I said right now I have an annoying feedback hum. I'm hoping getting a new shielded cable will take care of that. But I'm not convinced yet I want to incorporate the sub back in....we'll see if Dirac can change my mind about it. I read some notes on the Dirac site where they say to leave the phase on the sub set at 0 and the software will take care of that. I don't know if that applies to both the built in firmware or just the pc/Mac version.

Yeah, I still need to dig into the various tweaks you can do. I've messed with crossover and curtain settings a bit but want to research more before messing with it again. It's cool how much you can tweak with the software but also a bit overwhelming!

I bet you can get away without using the sub since you've got full size speakers. I would imagine it should make for an easier setup too.

Are you happy with the results you're seeing/hearing so far? I've got a repurposed living room that I listen in and it's got to be a torture test for room correction. I've been impressed with the way things sound so far though.

 

[mandrix]

Yeah, I still need to dig into the various tweaks you can do. I've messed with crossover and curtain settings a bit but want to research more before messing with it again. It's cool how much you can tweak with the software but also a bit overwhelming!

I bet you can get away without using the sub since you've got full size speakers. I would imagine it should make for an easier setup too.

Are you happy with the results you're seeing/hearing so far? I've got a repurposed living room that I listen in and it's got to be a torture test for room correction. I've been impressed with the way things sound so far though.

Well I'm pretty happy so far. But I do not have any full size speakers. My corner speakers have 6 inch woofers and the cabinets are about 12 inches deep, rear ported. My center is part of the 5.1 set and has dual 6 inch woofers.
They have pretty good bass considering their size. Formerly I was set up in a larger room and they did fine. The 4 overheads are just Polk Monitors and the side surrounds are Klipsch R41M's.
Not an "audiophile" set of speakers I suppose, but I get by.
It is what it is.

 

[mandrix]

As time has went by and I keep learning about Dirac Live, at this point I have bought the UMIK-1 mic and used it with the Dirac Live pc app.
Since I have a desk chair that I sit in behind my desk, in my pc/audio room, I use the "tightly focused" setting with 13 mic placement positions.
The results thus far have been good. I have yet to load any of the Harmon curves, but some people swear by them. These are available on the Dirac Live site.

I have moved my "front top" speakers twice now. At one point I was using them as "mid top" along with the rear top speakers staying in place. At one point I had them all the way forward in the room as well, directly above the front corners. Now the "front top" speakers are about 4 feet forward of the fronts, or closer to the listening position. The room has a slanted roof which complicates things, thus the moving of the front high speakers seeking the best sound.

At present the Onkyo is in the shop for an HDMI board replacement. I'm told there is not one in the US so it will have to be shipped. Could be 3 weeks to arrive: could be more. Arrrgghh. Considering past problems with HDMI boards I'm really surprised none are stocked in the US. Well for all I know they don't stock anything over here.

Anyway looking forward to getting the AVR back, at which point I will rerun the Dirac Live setup, since I moved a speaker pair.