YouTube getting 5.1 support?

[Jazzer]

Sorry, I'm going to have to roll back on my endorsement of PotPlayer for now, as I have been unable to reproduce my earlier apparent success with it and any 5.1 Youtube sources in Windows.

 

[TheMiltonian]

I have been playing around with it for 2 days now and haven't found a way to do it, the best I managed was getting songs from the same album to play but they did it in alphabetical order! I did that by going back and playing songs from the same album and I think after two it automatically played the rest depending on how they were uploaded which I guess was done alphabetically by file name, sorry I can’t be the bringer of good news but maybe someone smarter than me will find a way to work it out

View full playlist

You'll have to create a playlist on youtube and then use(play) the play list ... or depending on where the videos are in the "uploads" on the posters page, you might be willing to "Play all" and then fast forward to where you want to listen ... but the easiest answer is create a playlist on YouTube

 

[TheMiltonian]

I have been playing around with it for 2 days now and haven't found a way to do it, the best I managed was getting songs from the same album to play but they did it in alphabetical order! I did that by going back and playing songs from the same album and I think after two it automatically played the rest depending on how they were uploaded which I guess was done alphabetically by file name, sorry I can’t be the bringer of good news but maybe someone smarter than me will find a way to work it out

sorry for the double post, but wanted to be sure both of you saw it ... View full playlist

You'll have to create a playlist on youtube and then use(play) the play list ... or depending on where the videos are in the "uploads" on the posters page, you might be willing to "Play all" and then fast forward to where you want to listen ... but the easiest answer is create a playlist on YouTube

 

[MixerRog]

Sorry, I'm going to have to roll back on my endorsement of PotPlayer for now, as I have been unable to reproduce my earlier apparent success with it and any 5.1 Youtube sources in Windows.

Thanks for letting me know. It seems like you need a external box like Roku, Firestick or Apple to play the YouTube videos like I am uploading in true 5.1.

BTY, I have reached my limit of 7 videos I can upload now so have to wait 24 hours to upload anymore!
This is a new requirement now for new channels I just found out as I never had any issues with my main stereo channel but after 2 months they wave it if no issues they said.

Rog

 

[TheMiltonian]

Thanks for letting me know. It seems like you need a external box like Roku, Firefox or Apple to play the YouTube videos like I am uploading in true 5.1.

BTY, I have reached my limit of 7 videos I can upload now so have to wait 24 hours to upload anymore!
This is a new requirement now for new channels I just found out as I never had any issues with my main stereo channel but after 2 months they wave it if no issues they said.

Rog

I believe that some of the apps in the high-end TV's (using Roku, Google or Android) with eARC can send 5.1 TO AVR's ...

 

[madscot]

View full playlist

You'll have to create a playlist on youtube and then use(play) the play list ... or depending on where the videos are in the "uploads" on the posters page, you might be willing to "Play all" and then fast forward to where you want to listen ... but the easiest answer is create a playlist on YouTube

Thanks for that, seems like too much work, not even sure how to do a playlist on the firestick, the person I was replying to is probably more interested in the whole album in order thing, i’m a relative noobie to surround sound so just amazed I can listen to stuff I can’t afford to buy

 

[barfle]

Yeah, I was hoping you had some useful information … but I was mistaken. Thanks for playing.

My apologies, I thought you were the poster that I responded to, but my overall response is the same. But I will add that it’s a little condescending to suggest I don’t understand sample rates or bit depth, neither of which were mentioned. But again, thanks for playing.

Sorry, but I can't tell who knows what about digital music. Credentials are rarely posted on these boards. It certainly looked like you didn't understand sample rates or bit depth when you asked "My assumption regarding low volume on multi-channel & Atmos mixes (on Tidal) is that the audio stream has a set level of total bandwidth available, whether it’s 2 channels, 6 channels or 12 channels. So when channels are added, the only option is to ‘lower the volume’ in order to maintain ‘sound quality’."

So what is your confusion if it's not that?

 

[TheMiltonian]

Sorry, but I can't tell who knows what about digital music. Credentials are rarely posted on these boards. It certainly looked like you didn't understand sample rates or bit depth when you asked "My assumption regarding low volume on multi-channel & Atmos mixes (on Tidal) is that the audio stream has a set level of total bandwidth available, whether it’s 2 channels, 6 channels or 12 channels. So when channels are added, the only option is to ‘lower the volume’ in order to maintain ‘sound quality’."

So what is your confusion if it's not that?

So before I expanded the response, i was going to give you some credit, but it appears that you have continued your condescension.

First of all, I didn't ASK anything. I stated a hypothesis. Second, again, where are sample rates and bit depth mentioned? Third, and I should have mentioned this earlier, on Tidal (and I believe apple, though I don't listen as much there), there is also a lag to the beginning of any Atmos track (even within albums last time i checked), further suggesting that its bandwidth.

I would also point out that (without doing much research, maybe an AllStar can enlighten me), I haven't seen any other hypotheses as to why the volume levels are lower. I also assume that if Tidal or Apple WANTED or COULD do something about volume levels, they would.

It is apparently is not clear, but what I am discussing are the algorithms used by Tidal and Apple. They lower the volume with their compression in order to utilize less bandwidth.

Since I am obviously confused, please do enlighten me, good sirrah.

 

[MixerRog]

I believe that some of the apps in the high-end TV's (using Roku, Google or Android) with eARC can send 5.1 TO AVR's ...

Thanks for your good suggestion. Yes the HDMI eARC connection does allow for 2 way digital audio so as you say that might work to play these YouTube 5.1 songs via just a newer TV with that type of HDMI connection.

I don't have a way to check that so if someone tries it & it works, please let me know so I can suggest it on my YouTube channel.

Rog

 

[barfle]

So before I expanded the response, i was going to give you some credit, but it appears that you have continued your condescension.

First of all, I didn't ASK anything. I stated a hypothesis. Second, again, where are sample rates and bit depth mentioned? Third, and I should have mentioned this earlier, on Tidal (and I believe apple, though I don't listen as much there), there is also a lag to the beginning of any Atmos track (even within albums last time i checked), further suggesting that its bandwidth.

I would also point out that (without doing much research, maybe an AllStar can enlighten me), I haven't seen any other hypotheses as to why the volume levels are lower. I also assume that if Tidal or Apple WANTED or COULD do something about volume levels, they would.

It is apparently is not clear, but what I am discussing are the algorithms used by Tidal and Apple. They lower the volume with their compression in order to utilize less bandwidth.

Since I am obviously confused, please do enlighten me, good sirrah.

What you seemed to be connecting was bandwidth and loudness.

If that's being condescending, I apologize, and will butt out of this discussion.

 

[JediJoker]

What you seemed to be connecting was bandwidth and loudness.

Exactly. And they aren't tied, even in a lossy encoding.

 

[TheMiltonian]

What you seemed to be connecting was bandwidth and loudness.

If that's being condescending, I apologize, and will butt out of this discussion.

Ahhh ... now we are getting somewhere, because that's exactly what I was doing. As I stated in the beginning, I don't know whether its true or not, it's an hypothesis. I also asked for an explanation of how, if the answer is some Dolby metadata, that the same phenomenon occurs on Apple Atmos, Tidal Atmos, YouTube 5.1 (which doesn't have THAT metadata), and no-one from Apple or Tidal seems capable of fixing it.

All that other explanation had nothing to do with the questions that I asked, or the hypothesis I offered.

So again, instead of being condescending, if you will (or DarthClownus if he knows), explain to me why bandwidth and volume have no relationship and/or why if the answer is metadata, why does the lowered volume happen with YouTube 5.1, which doesn't use that metadata.

I await my enlightenment.

 

[himey]

My assumption regarding low volume on multi-channel & Atmos mixes (on Tidal) is that the audio stream has a set level of total bandwidth available, whether it’s 2 channels, 6 channels or 12 channels. So when channels are added, the only option is to ‘lower the volume’ in order to maintain ‘sound quality’.

It seems obvious to me, but I haven’t seen anyone else make a similar suggestion, so maybe I am just making stuff up.

The volume of a given channel has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of bandwidth being used. For Tidal, the issue seems to be dialnorm, for YouTube, the jury is still out. Hope this helps.

 

[TheMiltonian]

The volume of a given channel has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of bandwidth being used. For Tidal, the issue seems to be dialnorm, for YouTube, the jury is still out. Hope this helps.

I mean ... that DOES seem to describe the metadata tag that was discussed earlier. I am not certain why you think it applies specifically to Tidal, but thanks ... adding (there's an expansion, maybe you meant Apple Atmos?)

And since there seems to be some confusion on the topic, I am aware that the bandwidth of a particular channel has nothing to do with its volume. I am attempting to correlate the compression algorithms used with volume and bandwidth. If we could get a little focus and discussion on this topic, THAT would be helpful.

 

[himey]

I mean ... that DOES seem to describe the metadata tag that was discussed earlier. I am not certain why you think it applies specifically to Tidal, but thanks ... adding (there's an expansion, maybe you meant Apple Atmos?)

And since there seems to be some confusion on the topic, I am aware that the bandwidth of a particular channel has nothing to do with its volume. I am attempting to correlate the compression algorithms used with volume and bandwidth. If we could get a little focus and discussion on this topic, THAT would be helpful.

My understanding is that dialnorm is a Dolby thing, and Tidal uses Dolby EAC3. Considering the low volume issue in the AAC output on YouTube happens with files unassociated with Dolby, I put the two issues separate. Apple is a little different because it outputs Dolby MAT, but they still start with the same original files as Tidal. At least you learned something about bandwidth and volume today which you didn't previously. Hope this helps.

 

[boxhead]

Also, the youtube tracks we're discussing are in DD+, which certainly uses dialog normalisation. It was mentioned earlier that youtube uses LPCM but that is not the case for these tracks.

 

[humprof]

Too bad the attribution is wrong, and the audio is an upmix.

The show itself is from Wembley Arena , London, Oct 28 1978, not Los Angeles Oct 5 1978 ( a mistake King Biscuit made back in the day).
This is the truncated setlist broadcast -- in stereo -- by KBFH in the US after a much longer one was broadcast -- in stereo -- in the UK.

I have no idea what the 'JEMS Archive' is. There was never a quad broadcast of this show, and certainly no true 5.1 mix exists. The 'reel to reel master' source mentioned is just some fan's taped-off-the-air capture of the (stereo) KBFH broadcast.


If there's any C and LFE content, this too is an upmix, from the quad source.

Do you know whether there are similar inaccuracies in the details listed for the 1974 Yes KBFH show? It claims to be from a "Discrete 4-channel Quad Reel," but all other conversions I've seen call the source an SQ-encoded reel.

JEMS is some sort of concert tapers' archive/collective, by the way; a bunch of their stuff has shown up at Big O/roio, including a clandestine stereo audience recording from the Oct 6th, 1978 Inglewood show. (Not Oct 5th--although that night was also recorded by the same taper, supposedly, and there's a Discogs listing for a bootleg CD, possibly sourced from that recording. A different, non-JEMS, recording of the Oct 6 show is also up on the Internet Archive.)

 

[TheMiltonian]

Also, the youtube tracks we're discussing are in DD+, which certainly uses dialog normalisation. It was mentioned earlier that youtube uses LPCM but that is not the case for these tracks.

The YouTube files that I see on AppleTV are LPCM, and I’m seeing/hearing the volume being low … so again, I’d like to understand why that’s the case.

 

[TheMiltonian]

My understanding is that dialnorm is a Dolby thing, and Tidal uses Dolby EAC3. Considering the low volume issue in the AAC output on YouTube happens with files unassociated with Dolby, I put the two issues separate. Apple is a little different because it outputs Dolby MAT, but they still start with the same original files as Tidal. At least you learned something about bandwidth and volume today which you didn't previously. Hope this helps.

No, it doesn’t help, and I wish you conscending posters would stop saying that.

Why you think apple and tidal start with the same files is confusing, as everything I’ve read suggests that each streamer has their own requirements and own base files. So while this info about Apple is fine, I’m not sure I believe it for Tidal.

And if it’s such a quick fix, I still don’t understand why they would continue with the standard in the face of universal whinging.

 

[boxhead]

The YouTube files that I see on AppleTV are LPCM, and I’m seeing/hearing the volume being low … so again, I’d like to understand why that’s the case.

Not sure about your setup, but I have my Apple tv connected to the AVR with hdmi. I have the Apple tv set to send bitstream so that the AVR does the decoding and as a byproduct it (the AVR) shows the codec it is receiving. It's definitely Dolby Digital +, which as I mentioned before supports dialogue normalisation. My understanding is that this setting is what is causing the low volume.