King Biscuit Flower Hour

[mrfloydin]

Many thanks for the images and the information. I will be glad to add this one to my commercial CD list. While I was aware of some UK and ECC versions of the KBFH commercial CDs, I was not aware of In-Akustik, being the distributer of all the King Biscuit CDs for Germany. I just tried their web address as listed in the article, but it was dead.

Though my ability to read German is very rusty the article is very interesting. The release date of 2003 and reference to Steve Ship, as he was the President of King Biscuit Records at that time. As you probably saw in my index, 2003 was the last year of CD releases by King Biscuit Records, as well as the licensed DVD-A releases of the 34 titles of shows released on Silverline's "From The Front Row…Live" series. Basically after 2003, no additional KBFH radio show material was commercially issued before the KBFH archives were purchased by Wolfgang's Vault in 2006.

And while it may have been the 25th anniversary of Stereoplay magazine that prompted the special promo CD release, it ironically was also the 30th anniversary of the launch of the KBFH radio program back on 2/18/73.

Also, I found an image of the front cover of this issue with the CD intact online. I also just located a copy of the CD from a company in Germany and should receive it in a few weeks.

I really appreciate you posting this, as it will be a nice addition to my posted commercial releases index, and now my collection.

Danke!

mrfloydin

 

[mrfloydin]

MRFLOYDIN

I spent the better part of the day, morning, reading through your site.I'm very much impressed.Job well done!
I especially like the BBC info.

When it comes to the KBFH, I find it hard to Fanthom what your stating they did regarding the syndication process with the quad tapes!
I have no doubt they had Discreet Q4 REEL-REEL tapes, but your suggesting that's all they had for distribution, and it was up to the local radio stations to ENCODE their own programs.This would mean that they had to all have:Encoders (SQ for the most part), a Q4 REEL-REEL, and possibly decoders to monitor and who knows what else.This scenario is very much possible with large market/large cities, but becomes a logistical nightmare when you consider the number of broadcast stations (many very small markets added yearly), and all for an 60 or 90 minute broadcast for once a week?
Surely they must have had a Post Production facility for matrix encoding programs for distribution.The KBFH ads state "SO YOU CAN HEAR IT THE WAY YOU WOULD BE SEEING IT".That suggests DIR would need quality control of their broadcast.Also who would supply this equipment? Would it be CBS ? PIONEER? or the station or DIR? Who bears the cost of purchase or lease?
I know you state your site is incomplete, but please understand why I have a little skepticism on your Q4 only statement.

Anyway I hope I can help in some way, as I do have some clippings regarding broadcast info.

And boy do I ever agree with you when you state intros and outros and DJ banter is a missed opportunity when erased from programs!

Lots of luck and thankyou for a valuable site with a wealth of info-derek

Derek,

I will confess that when I posted my information to the web and then made my announcements on this and another forum, I was fairly confident that I would receive mostly positive responses from the online community for the content, quality and understood multi-year effort that had gone into this. For the most part the response has been heartwarming, though I didn't post this to get my ego stroked.

I openly acknowledged that the data had holes in it and I welcomed supported additions and corrections from all viewers. I have received a number helpful informational inputs already that will be incorporated in my next update.

But given my reading of information and beliefs regarding the actual quad format of the reel tapes distributed to subscribing radio stations by KBFH as stated on this and other sites by even 'noted' collectors and authorities, I realized that my planned pronouncement regarding the fact that these original tapes were where in fact 4-channel, discrete reels and not SQ encoded, would to be initially embraced, with the same likelihood that a Republican would agree with the concept of climate change being the result of the ozone depletion from industrial carbon emissions.

[Sorry to dip my pen into the political inkwell to make my point. I also realize that you are Canadian and unlikely to be offended.]

I have to admit that I initially assumed that like the few quad BBC Rock Hour reels that London Wavelength issued, that the KBFH reels were also SQ encoded as sent to the radio stations. That seemed to be the simple configuration route and consistent with DIR's advertising and Bill Minkin's statements within the shows.

But it wasn't until I began acquiring and then later playing them that I discovered that these were not 2 track stereo reels, but discrete 4-channel tapes, clearly with distinct audio content on each track when properly played on a quad reel player.

Most KBFH shows were issued on two ~30 minute reels. If the recordings were 2 tracks with SQ encoded signals, then DIR could have saved themselves a lot of money and just recorded the second half of the show on the other tracks and have the stations just flip the reel and play it in the other direction. But they couldn't as they were recorded as discrete 4-channel tapes.

I will also say that my confirmation of this fact and the history of their usage at the subscribing radio stations comes from one of the oldest and most renowned collectors of these shows. He was the one who corrected my original erroneous assumption that these were SQ encoded tapes.

I have no interest in challenging the conventional beliefs of some of the numerous long time collectors and contributors to this site, who have stated their understandings repeatedly. These reels are moderately rare these days, so many people are drawing their assumptions from 2 tracks recordings dubbed from these reels. It is also understandable that some people have recorded these shows off the air during the 1970's. As such, if it was a straight dub, it would in fact still be SQ encoded today, and able to be decoded on '70's era equipment. That might rightfully support some of their beliefs.

Others have even claimed that they have been able to decode the SQ from the commercially released CDs issued from 1998 to 2003. These were in fact all remixed from the original multi-track recording tapes nearly 20 years after the conventional demise of SQ quad, and therefore KBFH Records would have had no logical intent to encode them. But some people seem to have active imaginations and aural faculties on this point. [Uh, oh. I just went over the edge again. Here comes the backlash....]

All I can say is that if you play one of the original tapes sent to the radio stations, you will find it to be a discrete 4-channel tape. Of the 100+ DIR/KBFH shows that I have, I have never played one that was not a discrete 4-channel tape, so I can't believe that DIR had a dual format distribution option.

While the process I have detailed might seem to be costly, remember that 1973 was still in the beginning of the home consumer quad market surge. Pioneer was the major sponsor of KBFH throughout the entire duration of the show's distribution on reel and was doing this to promote the sales of their SQ quad receivers. Sony was the main driver of the SQ format in the US and was similarly invested in Pioneer's success in this market. DIR started the show with only 54 subscribing stations in 1973 and only expanded to about 200 stations by early 1980, when they transitioned to LPs. So it wouldn't seem that the expense for the placement of encoders over 7 years would be that much or difficult to expense, with Sony probably discounting them to contribute to the market growth.

Similarly, I have a 1974 article about a chain of stations that installed Sansui QSE5B encoders at each station, to allow them to encode live music from local clubs and concert halls into QS for broadcast on their respective stations. It also stated that Sansui was involved in placement and operation of the encoders. The point is that the encoders had other uses beyond just encoding a syndicated, pre-recorded program.

I would certainly be interested in contradictory documentation, so if you could possibly share some of your pertinent clippings with me via a PM, I'd appreciate it.

All I can say is that I feel a bit sad for apparently unleashing a firestorm of reaction with my statements regarding this format aspect on my site, due to my seemingly 'heretical' declaration that all DIR/KBFH reels are discrete 4-channel tapes and not SQ encoded. I hope that others who have access to these original reels will check this aspect out and add confirming commentary. I certainly do not want to put inaccurate information out on my site, to in any way taint it's informational value.

Thanks for your overall positive comments regarding the site's content and value to the community.

mrfloydin

 

[krkier]

Most KBFH shows were issued on two ~30 minute reels. If the recordings were 2 tracks with SQ encoded signals, then DIR could have saved themselves a lot of money and just recorded the second half of the show on the other tracks and have the stations just flip the reel and play it in the other direction. But they couldn't as they were recorded as discrete 4-channel tapes.

This would be highly unpractical, since turning around the reel would leave a gap in the playback of the program, so a two reel distribution has been mandatory.

Same goes for LP distribution, they were configured in a way to allow gapless playback with the use of two record players. As an example I can see on my copies of "Westwood One" live radio shows the configuration:

First LP: Side 1 coupled with side 4
Second LP: Side 2 coupled with side 5
Third LP: Side 3 coupled with side 6

In contrary to record changer optimized triple albums, like the Woodstock album:

First LP: Side 1 coupled with side 6
Second LP: Side 2 coupled with side 5
Third LP: Side 3 coupled with side 4

-Kristian

 

[krkier]

Your database of shows includes an entry for Frank Zappa, aired in 1981. The recording date of the concert was 3rd July 1980 with the exception of one song taken in Frankfurt the day before Munich, reference is the database of Zappa audience recordings at Zappateers. I assume Zappa himself recorded these shows, and later provided copies to KBFH, since I don't think they actually recorded shows themself in Europe.
Information about the bootlegs of this show can be found at the Zappa Patio.

I have nothing original from King Biscuit, but some records from Westwood One shows, mainly "Superstar Concert Series" and "Off The Record with Mary Turner". Not many, since those radio shows are harder to find here in Germany, but most of what I have have cue sheets. I can scan them if you like, you might then be able to swap them with others.

-Kristian

 

[fizzywiggs41]

MRFLOYDIN

You having a 100+ supply all in discreet Q4 of KBFH is a convincing argument in itself.

I for one find it foolhardy at best, that all these stations would have to be supplied with Q4 REELS, ENCODERS, DECODERS, POSSIBLY 4CH EQUALIZERS, and in a lot of instances multiple units in case of failure, all supplied by CBS LABS/SONY , or PIONEER. And of corse DIR supplied only Q4 REELS.
A lot of trouble to listen to an hour long show, you have to admit.I know first hand how easy it is to encode as I've done this quite easily with my own.
And it sounds as if CBS etc. were trying to promote Discreet? Rather than SQ matrix?
Perhaps they were playing with a "double edged sword"in the hopes that RCA/WEA Q4 Reels would get played in SQ as well, but then they loose some promotion of their own artist stable?
Also you should note I don't own any KBFH titles other than 4 BEST OF cds on Sandstone, which in my judgement are not encoded.

In addition I do believe in global warming and am far from conservative politically.

More importantly I and others need to know how discreet are the quad tapes? Just ambience in the rears or what?

Thankyou for your response-derek

 

[fizzywiggs41]

I forgot to make mention of SANSUI in this scenario.

I am aware of them dishing out encoders.I have articles from the FOUR CHANNEL SCENE SANSUI'S info promo newsletter, and the way they did this one would think it was like handing out candy at Halloween.
But they and I'm certain the idea was not lost on CBS as well, did this to promote quad synthesis in QS of stereo programming.
All day preferred, SQ ( CBS LABS) would want this as well of course.

A danger in the KBFH ( ONE HOUR PER WEEK), as I'm certain some of the same stations had both encoders!

OH WELL, we'll probably never know their( CBS LABS ) entire rationale for taking the long way around to promote this SQ venture.

Thankyou, derek

 

[quicksrt]

Derek,

I will confess that when I posted my information to the web and then made my announcements on this and another forum, I was fairly confident that I would receive mostly positive responses from the online community for the content, quality and understood multi-year effort that had gone into this. For the most part the response has been heartwarming, though I didn't post this to get my ego stroked.

I openly acknowledged that the data had holes in it and I welcomed supported additions and corrections from all viewers. I have received a number helpful informational inputs already that will be incorporated in my next update.

But given my reading of information and beliefs regarding the actual quad format of the reel tapes distributed to subscribing radio stations by KBFH as stated on this and other sites by even 'noted' collectors and authorities, I realized that my planned pronouncement regarding the fact that these original tapes were where in fact 4-channel, discrete reels and not SQ encoded, would to be initially embraced, with the same likelihood that a Republican would agree with the concept of climate change being the result of the ozone depletion from industrial carbon emissions.

[Sorry to dip my pen into the political inkwell to make my point. I also realize that you are Canadian and unlikely to be offended.]

I have to admit that I initially assumed that like the few quad BBC Rock Hour reels that London Wavelength issued, that the KBFH reels were also SQ encoded as sent to the radio stations. That seemed to be the simple configuration route and consistent with DIR's advertising and Bill Minkin's statements within the shows.

But it wasn't until I began acquiring and then later playing them that I discovered that these were not 2 track stereo reels, but discrete 4-channel tapes, clearly with distinct audio content on each track when properly played on a quad reel player.

Most KBFH shows were issued on two ~30 minute reels. If the recordings were 2 tracks with SQ encoded signals, then DIR could have saved themselves a lot of money and just recorded the second half of the show on the other tracks and have the stations just flip the reel and play it in the other direction. But they couldn't as they were recorded as discrete 4-channel tapes.

I will also say that my confirmation of this fact and the history of their usage at the subscribing radio stations comes from one of the oldest and most renowned collectors of these shows. He was the one who corrected my original erroneous assumption that these were SQ encoded tapes.

I have no interest in challenging the conventional beliefs of some of the numerous long time collectors and contributors to this site, who have stated their understandings repeatedly. These reels are moderately rare these days, so many people are drawing their assumptions from 2 tracks recordings dubbed from these reels. It is also understandable that some people have recorded these shows off the air during the 1970's. As such, if it was a straight dub, it would in fact still be SQ encoded today, and able to be decoded on '70's era equipment. That might rightfully support some of their beliefs.

Others have even claimed that they have been able to decode the SQ from the commercially released CDs issued from 1998 to 2003. These were in fact all remixed from the original multi-track recording tapes nearly 20 years after the conventional demise of SQ quad, and therefore KBFH Records would have had no logical intent to encode them. But some people seem to have active imaginations and aural faculties on this point. [Uh, oh. I just went over the edge again. Here comes the backlash....]

All I can say is that if you play one of the original tapes sent to the radio stations, you will find it to be a discrete 4-channel tape. Of the 100+ DIR/KBFH shows that I have, I have never played one that was not a discrete 4-channel tape, so I can't believe that DIR had a dual format distribution option.

While the process I have detailed might seem to be costly, remember that 1973 was still in the beginning of the home consumer quad market surge. Pioneer was the major sponsor of KBFH throughout the entire duration of the show's distribution on reel and was doing this to promote the sales of their SQ quad receivers. Sony was the main driver of the SQ format in the US and was similarly invested in Pioneer's success in this market. DIR started the show with only 54 subscribing stations in 1973 and only expanded to about 200 stations by early 1980, when they transitioned to LPs. So it wouldn't seem that the expense for the placement of encoders over 7 years would be that much or difficult to expense, with Sony probably discounting them to contribute to the market growth.

Similarly, I have a 1974 article about a chain of stations that installed Sansui QSE5B encoders at each station, to allow them to encode live music from local clubs and concert halls into QS for broadcast on their respective stations. It also stated that Sansui was involved in placement and operation of the encoders. The point is that the encoders had other uses beyond just encoding a syndicated, pre-recorded program.

I would certainly be interested in contradictory documentation, so if you could possibly share some of your pertinent clippings with me via a PM, I'd appreciate it.

All I can say is that I feel a bit sad for apparently unleashing a firestorm of reaction with my statements regarding this format aspect on my site, due to my seemingly 'heretical' declaration that all DIR/KBFH reels are discrete 4-channel tapes and not SQ encoded. I hope that others who have access to these original reels will check this aspect out and add confirming commentary. I certainly do not want to put inaccurate information out on my site, to in any way taint it's informational value.

Thanks for your overall positive comments regarding the site's content and value to the community.

mrfloydin

I also found your claim that the KBFH reels are all discrete 4-channel tapes a stretch (as I mentioned on the "other" forum). But since you have the tapes and have played them on a quad deck and confirmed that yes - they are discreet and not SQ encoded at all, I was prepared to just take you at your word.

When I asked if you had any tape reel box documentation, cues, etc. of these being discrete 4-channel tapes, you said no, nowhere does it state that they are discrete 4-channel tapes to be encoded, but that was fine (you said) because the listening audience does not need to know this (avoiding the issue almost entirely).

Yes, the station has to know everything about these tapes, including tape speed, track orientation, channels, total length, and number of commercial breaks, areas for station IDs. All this info must be with the tapes. It can't just be an issue where the station remembers, and knows it all from last weeks show, like Oh, yeah, I remember, this is to be SQ encoded, it's four track!!

You stated that it was well known because of all the advertisements, that yes it is in SQ quad!

It really needs to be clear on the reel itself.

The pictures on your site of the discs, reels, etc. are very low quality/res pictures and virtually none of the information on the reel boxes is legible. If there truly is no mention of quad on these reels (SQ, discreet, or other wise), then I think it might be a good idea for this missing or lack of information to be seen clearly on the reels, their boxes, and the cue sheets if any were supplied. Show us all that is there for these Quad reels please - since you have many examples on hand.

 

[quicksrt]

Your database of shows includes an entry for Frank Zappa, aired in 1981. The recording date of the concert was 3rd July 1980 with the exception of one song taken in Frankfurt the day before Munich, reference is the database of Zappa audience recordings at Zappateers. I assume Zappa himself recorded these shows, and later provided copies to KBFH, since I don't think they actually recorded shows themself in Europe.
Information about the bootlegs of this show can be found at the Zappa Patio.

I have nothing original from King Biscuit, but some records from Westwood One shows, mainly "Superstar Concert Series" and "Off The Record with Mary Turner". Not many, since those radio shows are harder to find here in Germany, but most of what I have have cue sheets. I can scan them if you like, you might then be able to swap them with others.

-Kristian

Yes, and the Oct. 1977 Zappa recording was broadcast in 1978. The 1980 broadcast is an entirely different recording.

 

[mrfloydin]

I also found your claim that the KBFH reels are all discrete 4-channel tapes a stretch (as I mentioned on the "other" forum). But since you have the tapes and have played them on a quad deck and confirmed that yes - they are discreet and not SQ encoded at all, I was prepared to just take you at your word.

When I asked if you had any tape reel box documentation, cues, etc. of these being discrete 4-channel tapes, you said no, nowhere does it state that they are discrete 4-channel tapes to be encoded, but that was fine (you said) because the listening audience does not need to know this (avoiding the issue almost entirely).

It really needs to be clear on the reel itself.

The pictures on your site of the discs, reels, etc. are very low quality/res pictures and virtually none of the information on the reel boxes is legible. If there truly is no mention of quad on these reels (SQ, discreet, or other wise), then I think it might be a good idea for this missing or lack of information to be seen clearly on the reels, their boxes, and the cue sheets if any were supplied. Show us all that is there for these Quad reels please - since you have many examples on hand.

I'm not trying to run around in circles with you on this point. These vintage reels have what they have, when it comes to the labeling. I'm not trying to justify DIR's decision to go this route for their radio show reels. I'm just saying that this what I know.
Again, the only claim DIR/KBFH ever made in the show imbedded audio and advertising, was that from the listener's aural experience, it was an SQ quadraphonic radio show, that they could decode into four channels, if they had a great Pioneer quad receiver. Those statements said nor implied anything about the format of the reels sent to the station for that broadcast.

As to the size, resolution and quality of the images on my reference images page, as I stated previously, I was only trying to display an overview of the numerous types of images of reels, LPs or CD on my site. I opted to just show a cross-section sampling, to show visitors the varieties that were issued. I didn't expect people to be able to read these, nor did I go the route of using thumbnails. If someone has a real interest in seeing something that I state as a confirmation image of, I'd be glad to send an better image via a PM or external email.

DIR was jumping into the subscription radio show business with little experience and no 'how to' handbook. Relative to cue sheet inclusion and functionally helpful information to the studio programming staff and DJ, I agree that their early efforts and inclusions were ignorant and lacking. It took them some time to understand what they needed to give the stations and their cue sheets evolved and improved over time.

As I detailed on my site in the section for the cue sheets, track listing & other enclosures of KBFH reel shows:

2/73 - 2/74 : the reels contained a reprint of the full page ad from Rolling Stone magazine for the show; no known formal cue sheets included during this period - 1 item

3/74 - mid/late /78 : a basic cue sheet (w/timed breakpoints to cue DJ for show start, music segments, imbedded national commercials, spots for local commercials, reel 1-->2 transition points, to show close, later included upcoming show listings), an affidavit for subscribing station to sign to acknowledge show airing and that imbedded commercials were played as scheduled, an addressed return envelope for affidavit, and a suggested promo spot narrative sheet - 4 items

12/78 - early /80 : still included the basic cue sheet, the promo spot narrative sheet was expanded to include a listing of the artists on the show and their band members, and a listing of the song titles for the group(s) performing and occasionally incidental information like the venues where recorded; the affidavits were possibly discontinued - 2 items

Per your request I am including the RS ad, the reel box label and cues sheets for a well known show broadcast in quad. While the ad states to be in quad, the reel box nor cues make any mention of the tape format as being SQ or discrete 4-channel. I have a bunch of others, but they are all the same.

The last image I have included is a page of KBFH broadcasting instructions. Unfortunately it is for CD era media. But I agree that if the reels were discrete 4-channel tapes that needed to be encoded for transmission, some documentation like this should have been forwarded to the station. My contention is that it probably was, but done once with the initiation of the radio show subscription and not included in each show reel.

[P.S. I'm having a problem adding more than one image to this reply. I'll try to do subsequent replies to post the other images. ]

mrfloydin

 

[mrfloydin]

Part 2

 

[quicksrt]

I'm not trying to run around in circles with you on this point. These vintage reels have what they have, when it comes to the labeling. I'm not trying to justify DIR's decision to go this route for their radio show reels. I'm just saying that this what I know.
Again, the only claim DIR/KBFH ever made in the show imbedded audio and advertising, was that from the listener's aural experience, it was an SQ quadraphonic radio show, that they could decode into four channels, if they had a great Pioneer quad receiver. Those statements said nor implied anything about the format of the reels sent to the station for that broadcast.

As to the size, resolution and quality of the images on my reference images page, as I stated previously, I was only trying to display an overview of the numerous types of images of reels, LPs or CD on my site. I opted to just show a cross-section sampling, to show visitors the varieties that were issued. I didn't expect people to be able to read these, nor did I go the route of using thumbnails. If someone has a real interest in seeing something that I state as a confirmation image of, I'd be glad to send an better image via a PM or external email.

DIR was jumping into the subscription radio show business with little experience and no 'how to' handbook. Relative to cue sheet inclusion and functionally helpful information to the studio programming staff and DJ, I agree that their early efforts and inclusions were ignorant and lacking. It took them some time to understand what they needed to give the stations and their cue sheets evolved and improved over time.

As I detailed on my site in the section for the cue sheets, track listing & other enclosures of KBFH reel shows:

2/73 - 2/74 : the reels contained a reprint of the full page ad from Rolling Stone magazine for the show; no known formal cue sheets included during this period - 1 item

3/74 - mid/late /78 : a basic cue sheet (w/timed breakpoints to cue DJ for show start, music segments, imbedded national commercials, spots for local commercials, reel 1-->2 transition points, to show close, later included upcoming show listings), an affidavit for subscribing station to sign to acknowledge show airing and that imbedded commercials were played as scheduled, an addressed return envelope for affidavit, and a suggested promo spot narrative sheet - 4 items

12/78 - early /80 : still included the basic cue sheet, the promo spot narrative sheet was expanded to include a listing of the artists on the show and their band members, and a listing of the song titles for the group(s) performing and occasionally incidental information like the venues where recorded; the affidavits were possibly discontinued - 2 items

Per your request I am including the RS ad, the reel box label and cues sheets for a well known show broadcast in quad. While the ad states to be in quad, the reel box nor cues make any mention of the tape format as being SQ or discrete 4-channel. I have a bunch of others, but they are all the same.

The last image I have included is a page of KBFH broadcasting instructions. Unfortunately it is for CD era media. But I agree that if the reels were discrete 4-channel tapes that needed to be encoded for transmission, some documentation like this should have been forwarded to the station. My contention is that it probably was, but done once with the initiation of the radio show subscription and not included in each show reel.

[P.S. I'm having a problem adding more than one image to this reply. I'll try to do subsequent replies to post the other images. ]

mrfloydin
View attachment 19211View attachment 19212

May I ask you your first name? Mine is Jeff. We may as well speak man to man LOL!

I posted a comment on the other forum about professional studio and broadcast track orientation on a 1/4" reel tape. It might help to note this.

"I was only trying to display an overview of the numerous types of images of reels, LPs or CD on my site. I opted to just show a cross-section sampling, to show visitors the varieties that were issued. I didn't expect people to be able to read these, nor did I go the route of using thumbnails."

Why not go ahead and give the viewers of your page some quality items to look at. We've all heard about this stuff for years and years, why not go all out with visual documentation, that is what many of us are starved for. Especially if your collection is as exceptional as it sounds.

There was no need to quote from your site about contents, that is going around and around. We already read that right.

I suggest you get a three-ring binder. Put in tabs for each year of the KBFH or BBC Rock Hour. Then put out the word you are looking for cue sheets, and then follow through with folks offering to help. Good quality scans sent in emails, or sent in the mail. If you have a PO Box that is the ideal way to get good copies.
Put these cue sheets in these binders in order including photo copies of the ones you already one in vinyl or reel to reel sets. That would be easier and cheaper than getting the real 2LP sets. The cue sheets you need for a more complete and accurate list.

In regards to the quad issue, you must read my reply about professional track orientation on reels before we discuss that further.

 

[quicksrt]

Part 2

Yes, if you are going to insist on supplying redundant information (a page of KBFH broadcasting instructions. Unfortunately for CD era media) that is not the point of this conversation, then yes we will go around and around, never really getting to the point.

 

[Neb-Maat-Re]

Of the 100+ DIR/KBFH shows that I have
mrfloydin

Oh, my giddy aunt!

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Perhaps the only anomaly I have.

Note the R S ad clearly states the matrix encode of this program to be broadcast. (But it is only one)


You gotta admit....strange indeed.

derek

 

[mrfloydin]

Oh, my giddy aunt!

My regards to your aunt.

 

[mrfloydin]

Perhaps the only anomaly I have.

Note the R S ad clearly states the matrix encode of this program to be broadcast. (But it is only one)
View attachment 19232View attachment 19233

You gotta admit....strange indeed

derek

Derek,

First, I owe you an brief apology for the tone and partial content of my initial reply to you on 6/6. I have to admit that I ended up venting some of my frustration in it, due to some of the other replies I have received on this aspect of my site's content.

I understand and respect the differing opinions of others, but I guess simply hoped that we could agree, to just disagree, rather than tussle over it like angry dogs over a bone.

I have the Monty Python ad, along with about 40 others in my archives, that also state that the upcoming broadcast will be presented in SQ quadraphonic (or just quadraphonic) format. DIR seems to have waffled on the consistency of this statement. No dispute on this.

Again, the subtle distinction I am trying to make is actually between references to the radio broadcasts as being SQ matrix encoded quadraphonic transmissions to the listener, versus the actual format that these radio reels were mastered in as received by the radio stations, and the process used for their transmission. I'm saying that it was discrete 4-channel signal in, to create the SQ encoded signal out to the radio listeners.

Thanks again.

mrfloydin

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Ah........?

I thought I was agreeing with you.

If you have none but Q4 Reels of KBFH (100+), I am somewhat convinced.I was only trying to rationalize what the SQ MATRIX proponents were doing as contrary to their normal promotion of matrix over discreet in the KBFH decision.
I was trying to get you to admit that this is a contradictory decision at best, when you take into consideration how simple it would have been to simply matrix encode their tapes.......but chose not to.

Moving on, is that a 4211 I see in the photo?

And please let me know how the rear channels of the KBFH tapes are? Are they as discreet as the label (WEA, RCA, etc) Q4 REELS? Are they as good as some of the BBC QUAD programs ? (BBC SQ OR OTHER MATRIX?) Enquiring minds want to know.Well at least this one.

Thankyou for your response-derek

 

[mrfloydin]

Ah........?

I thought I was agreeing with you.

If you have none but Q4 Reels of KBFH (100+), I am somewhat convinced.I was only trying to rationalize what the SQ MATRIX proponents were doing as contrary to their normal promotion of matrix over discreet in the KBFH decision.
I was trying to get you to admit that this is a contradictory decision at best, when you take into consideration how simple it would have been to simply matrix encode their tapes.......but chose not to.

Moving on, is that a 4211 I see in the photo?

And please let me know how the rear channels of the KBFH tapes are? Are they as discreet as the label (WEA, RCA, etc) Q4 REELS? Are they as good as some of the BBC QUAD programs ? (BBC SQ OR OTHER MATRIX?) Enquiring minds want to know.Well at least this one.

Thankyou for your response-derek

Derek,

Sorry if I misunderstood your implied position on this, in your previous reply.

I completely agree that the route that DIR went in mastering these radio stations tapes, seems like the proverbial 'long way around the mountain', when it came to getting them broadcast in SQ. But to me that is just 42 year old history.

I'll be honest, that I am not sure what a '4211' is? Please enlighten me. As to the equipment shown in the photo it includes from top to bottom:

- Sony SQD-2020 SQ Decoder
- Sony SQE-2000 SQ Encoder
- Sansui QSD-1 Decoder
- Sansui QSE-5B Encoder
- Akai X-1810 Stereo Reel To Reel/8T Recorder
- Pioneer QT-74 Quad R-R Tape Recorder
- JVC CP-5000U 3/4" Stereo U-matic video recorder
- RCA SJT 400 Selectavision Stereo CED video disc player

And in the darkened lower corner by the backrest of the white chair are:
-Superscope TD-48 Q8 Tape Player
- Marantz CD-400B CD-4 Demodulator

Last, at the left end of second row of 7" reels (with a few DVDs) are some of the vertical slide controls of:
- JVC SEA-V7 4 Channel Equalizer

Nice museum huh?

I have to leave for a while, so I'll be glad to answer the balance of your questions next time.

Thanks again.

mrfloydin

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Yes, after I posted I noticed the very recognizable SANSUI encoder, and QSD-1.

I had a QSD-2, and miss it now somwhat, I have a Fosgate 101a but it is sickly and needs maintenance.The R-MTX is pretty good I found on my old Sony decoder for stereo-quad synthesis, but the Sansui is superior, at least I found this to be the case.

Used to have a RM ENCODER too but no longer (don't ask what I did with it, it's embarrassing)

I still have my functioning SQ ENCODER scratchbuilt, with forward orienting sq switch built in with reqular encode, though.


That's an impressive collection's of equipment and software in my opinion.I'm sorry for leaving any prior negative opinion impressions in my past posts.I think you understand my past reticence and unless someone can pull a rabbit out of their hat the stage is yours on this matter and I'm glad we can finally move along.

Again thankyou for your response-derek



P S looking forward to further input/info from you.

 

[atrocity]

- RCA SJT 400 Selectavision Stereo CED video disc player

I THOUGHT so!