WHO’S NEXT/LIFEHOUSE Box set coming in September 2023 (STEVEN WILSON DOLBY ATMOS & 5.1 MIXES CONFIRMED!!)

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sjcorne said:
"Won't Get Fooled Again" and some of the bonus songs are 16-track, everything else is 8-track. So yes, there were definitely some limitations with regards to the source material.
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I don’t think that Glyn Johns recordings have sonic quality limitations, as he was among the best at getting great sounds on tape. However, maybe you mean limited ATMOS object mixing choices comparing 8 vs 16 tracks?
 
shakti said:
I have given this a few spins now on my modest setup which is 5.0; I have four full-range shelf/stand speakers and a center, but no sub. I find it sounds terrific for vintage quad mixes and I have never felt bass was lacking on those.

I find this mix to be very disappointing. Maybe my expectations were too high (I'll admit I was expecting a lot), maybe it's my setup, maybe the Atmos mix is better. But I find it to be a frustrating case of "neither here nor there". It's spread out more, but that dilutes the impact and power. Some details can be heard a little better, but overall the drums sound washy and distant, vocals sometimes also a bit echoey, and where is the bass??? I also find it to be very tepid - very, very little discrete action going on. On Won't Get Fooled Again things are finally starting to happen with some movement in the rear on the synth, but then the handclaps in the rear just jump out and it seems odd compared to the rest of the album which is so conservatively mixed. All in all, this isn't terrible, but it's just not great either and a real missed opportunity to my ears. But what do I know - maybe the source material doesn't allow for a more aggressive mix? I'm voting a 6 for the main album.

Things do get better with the bonus tracks, which suggests to me that it's not the source material but the choice of the mixer (or the artist) to keep closer to the stereo mix. The bonus tracks feature more discrete action, some tracks even sound a bit like vintage Quad mixes (will have to go back to pinpoint which ones). Bonus material is more like an 8 or maybe even 9. Will have to spend more time with those.
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In my experience, ATMOS mixes don’t translate well on my system without using a sub, and I have very capable full range speakers and plenty of power. I discovered this one day when listening to a new ATMOS MIX that sounded crappy. I just happened to see that the little power light was out on my sub. Turned back on it sounded much better. I think this applies to regular 5.1 mixes too.
 
ssully said:
what is a 'full range' shelf/stand speaker?

(personally, I'm getting over the supposed allure of surround remixes , especially SW's, and often favoring good upmixes of the original stereo mixes, these days)
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At least upmixes sound very close to original stereo. Surely it is very difficult to remix a song from the multitracks and make it sonically similar to the more familiar stereo recording. This is especially true if the stereo version has a lot of post-mixing wizardry, such as Led Zep.
 
mrcond said:
Here is what it says in the book that came with the set.

Disc 11 Blu-ray: Atmos & 5.1: The Original Album & Bonus Tracks

BY STEVEN WILSON & RICHARD WHITAKER

The main challenge with creating a surround mix from a vintage album like Who's Next comes from the relatively economic fashion in which it was recoded, at least compared to today's computer based recording where there are virtually no limitations. Several tracks, including 'Won't Get Fooled Again' and some of the non-album singles, were recorded on 16-track, but most of Who's Next itself was recorded on 8-track tape using the technique of bouncing down (multiple parts recorded separately but then reduced to a single channel on the tape to free up channels for further overdubs). Sometimes the multi tracks have the drums recorded in stereo, but just as often on a single mono track. Then there might be a track of bass guitar, a couple of guitars, a lead vocal, one or two backing vocal tracks, and an extra channel with piano, synthesiser, brass, or percussion.

To make a 5.1 from these elements mainly involved keeping the core rhythm track in the front speakers, lead vocals in the centre speaker (but not exclusively), and using the rear speakers for things like backing vocals and the aforementioned extra elements. That sounded beautiful. But then we come to Atmos. My studio is based on a 7.1.4 Atmos setup so I have potentially 11 speakers to fill with sound, including four elevated speakers. How was I going to make that work?! Well, the answer lay in the further elements added in the mix - effects like reverberation on individual vocals and instruments. For example, the organ on 'Won't Get Fooled Again' is bathed in a halo of reverb, which needed to be added during the mix (it's not recorded on the tape, reverb is nearly always added during mixing). Recreating this meant I could move the organ and it's halo of reverb separately in the surround field, making for a really immersive swirl of sound. The same is true of almost all of the reverb and echo effects on the album - in recreating these I was able to control and position them separately to the source sound to make the instruments and vocals sound multi-dimensional in Atmos.

Sometimes we were lucky enough to also have an original session reel. This might have numerous run-throughs of a basic backing track the band played, before a take was selected and bounced down to a stereo pair on another reel for overdubbing. Having this reel meant that I could resynchronise it with the master reel in the computer, which in turn meant that not only were we going back an audio generation in terms of the drums, bass and rhythm guitars, but also that I had separate control over the sound and positioning of these instruments.

For me the economy inherent in the recording process of Who's Next actually makes for a really engaging surround experience. You can hear the space between all the instruments, every gesture in the music. Even the sound of the room they were recording in. Both compositionally and performance-wise nothing on Who's Next is superfluous or wasted, everything counts. It's almost a cliche with surround sound to say that it's like you're in the studio with the band, but that really is the way it feels on these iconic recordings. You can almost reach out and touch the music.

The phrase 'classic album' seems almost inadequate in the case of Who's Next. What an absolute honour then, to be able to deconstruct and reconstruct one of the most legendary and influential recordings in the whole rock canon - as well as 14 non-album tracks from the same era - and present it in this new form, which I hope is simultaneously faithful to the original while presenting it in a fresh way for people like myself that have been in thrall to it for most of our adult lives.

Steven Wilson, August 2022

Note: Unfortunately the original multitrack tape for 'Bargain' could not be located, so this track is present in upmixed form in surround. For this I used Penteo, sophisticated software which takes an original stereo master and processes it to create a pseudo surround mix. While this is obviously not the same as being able to create a properly immersive mix by positioning individual elements from a multitrack tape, it is the best possible solution given the circumstances, and at least preserves the flow of the ablum when listened to in 5.1 or Atmos.
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Thank you for posting this!
 
Tres Discrete said:
I got mine from Rarewaves yesterday (paid $184)…but no padding…fortunately the box is OK 🥵
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I wonder why the Rarewaves sets have no padding. My Amazon shipment was extremely well packed with padding and an extra sturdy box. Mine is in perfect condition. Anyone want to buy a really cool cardboard box and Styrofoam padding for $73? :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
ar surround said:
I wonder why the Rarewaves sets have no padding. My Amazon shipment was extremely well packed with padding and an extra sturdy box. Mine is in perfect condition. Anyone want to buy a really cool cardboard box and Styrofoam padding for $73? :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
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My copy from Amazon US, had some large bubble padding, but on the top side of the box only. The bottom of the shipping box, where the box-set sat had no padding at all. I've seen this many times before; and it's idiotic, there should be padding all around.

Lots of variation in how this was packed apparently, even within the same company.

So mine ended up with a slight ding to the lower left corner. I'm not sweating it though, 'cause I'll never sell.
 
ar surround said:
I wonder why the Rarewaves sets have no padding. My Amazon shipment was extremely well packed with padding and an extra sturdy box. Mine is in perfect condition. Anyone want to buy a really cool cardboard box and Styrofoam padding for $73? :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
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My LIGHTHOUSE package from RAREWAVES which shipped, BTW, from Springfield Gardens, New York [?] was extremely well padded. Not so much as a ding!
 
ar surround said:
I wonder why the Rarewaves sets have no padding. My Amazon shipment was extremely well packed with padding and an extra sturdy box. Mine is in perfect condition. Anyone want to buy a really cool cardboard box and Styrofoam padding for $73? :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
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My Rarewaves Who box was nicely padded
Why yours was not is perplexing.

Ooops, I guess I should have aimed this reply @Tres Discrete

IMG_0508.jpeg
 
As far as I remember, I haven't commented on this title. I simply cannot agree with those who find issue with the bass, or the surround on this title. I keep going back to this and looking for reason to complain...and I cannot.

I think it sounds just awesome. Obviously, we can't and should not compare this to any modern Atmos release...I mean, we just can't. I don't think.
Keeping that in mind, hands down, this is by far the best I have ever heard this title. I love to turn it up, plenty of punchy bass, good mids and nice highs. I just don't think anything is lacking.

I cannot get hung up on specific pieces of the music either lacking or otherwise. I just don't go that deep. For me, this is a knockout. I can't wait to get my buddies over to crank this mother up. They will be stunned, as they should.

Rock on man!
 
GOS said:
As far as I remember, I haven't commented on this title. I simply cannot agree with those who find issue with the bass, or the surround on this title. I keep going back to this and looking for reason to complain...and I cannot.

I think it sounds just awesome. Obviously, we can't and should not compare this to any modern Atmos release...I mean, we just can't. I don't think.
Keeping that in mind, hands down, this is by far the best I have ever heard this title. I love to turn it up, plenty of punchy bass, good mids and nice highs. I just don't think anything is lacking.

I cannot get hung up on specific pieces of the music either lacking or otherwise. I just don't go that deep. For me, this is a knockout. I can't wait to get my buddies over to crank this mother up. They will be stunned, as they should.

Rock on man!
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As I said in the poll, CRANK UP LOUD ENOUGH FOR PETE TO HEAR IT!
 
jimfisheye said:
Short answer is still it was good to hear and the sequencer synth dancing around all the speakers was a great opening. (Tops, sides, and rears that is. Not actually all.)
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Pedant reply, but for years I thought the opening notes of "Baba O'Riley" were synth -- but no! It was an old organ that had a weird stop function. Pete could make forward-looking magic out of anything, it seems!
 
Clement said:
I'm so sorry for your loss, Jonathan. A powerful and poignant tribute/review. Can't wait to get my copy. Until then, your review has inspired me to call my father. Thanks for ALL you do! Stay Surrounded, Comrade!
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Jonathan, my sincerest condolences; I second Clement's comments above. Back in the day, I used to listen to Who's Next on my pair of JBL Century L100's. I'm 72 and my Dad has been gone for 13 years now. Your Dad left us far too soon; he must have been a great guy.
 
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