Shibata vs. Hyper Elliptical, Is There A Big Difference?

[Q8]

So I was looking at this Shibata for possible CD-4 playback:

http://www.turntableneedles.com/Tec...-JICO-Shibata--our-Needle-718-DSH_p_3717.html

Then I was poking around and I found this:

http://www.turntableneedles.com/P24-Needle-718-DHE-copy_p_3817.html


So how different are they really. If you try to figure this out, its confusing, especially since they don't seem to provide size and shape specs.

Then from posts on other forums, some people say they are the same, some people say they are different, some people say that they are just similar enough that it doesn't matter.

The question is: Will the Shibata show noticeable superiority to the Hyper Elliptical? Will the Hyper Elliptical work well for a CD-4 setup?

 

[The Quadfather]

So I was looking at this Shibata for possible CD-4 playback:

http://www.turntableneedles.com/Tec...-JICO-Shibata--our-Needle-718-DSH_p_3717.html

Then I was poking around and I found this:

http://www.turntableneedles.com/P24-Needle-718-DHE-copy_p_3817.html


So how different are they really. If you try to figure this out, its confusing, especially since they don't seem to provide size and shape specs.

Then from posts on other forums, some people say they are the same, some people say they are different, some people say that they are just similar enough that it doesn't matter.

The question is: Will the Shibata show noticeable superiority to the Hyper Elliptical? Will the Hyper Elliptical work well for a CD-4 setup?

I don't know if a hyper elliptical will work. CD-4 is so finicky that I rather doubt it. It might work, but not work well. That's the key. I do know that linear contact and microline styluses can and do work well. The way I understand it, is that these are refinements on the Shibata design. I believe that microline is a trademark of Audio Technica. That's what the AT440MLa has. If you try it, tell us how well it works. I wouldn't put a lot of money into it though. There are plenty of folks on this website that can recommend what they are using. The AT440MLa I use sounds good, and tracks well. It's not too expensive, about $160.00 . I am still on my original stylus it has held up well, and shows no sign of failing. I have used it for at least 10 years or more. There are other carts that are known to work well. I understand that Shure has an outstanding one. I don't know the model number, and I understand it's more expensive, but I might try it someday, I always liked the sound of Shure carts.

 

[Doug G.]

A hyper elliptical stylus is still an elliptical stylus albeit with an even narrower contact radius. It still doesn't have a broader contact from top to bottom which was found to be necessary for flawless CD-4 reproduction. The more stylus in contact with the groove vertically, the better chance of the carrier signals being traced/picked up and transferred to the demodulator.

I would definitely go for the Shibata. It was the original stylus designed (and a brilliant design it was) for CD-4 use and is still stellar to this day.

I also agree with The Quadfather about the AT440MLa. It works very well for CD-4, especially after it breaks in. That microline stylus makes the difference.

Doug

 

[geoffcb]

I don't use it for CD4, but I have a 2M Black Shibata stylus and it's brilliant for stereo anyway. So a Shibata would be a win-win situation. Expensive though!

Geoff

 

[DuncanS]

I was browsing the web, and came across this article from Wireless World May 1972, it shows a picture of the contact difference between Elliptical and Shibata styli, plus a few other interesting comments about Quad!

 

[proufo]

I don't use it for CD4, but I have a 2M Black Shibata stylus and it's brilliant for stereo anyway. So a Shibata would be a win-win situation. Expensive though!

Both the Shibata and the special line contact styli reduce the pressure on the groove, yes, but they also reach deeper into it so there could be more noise/goo picking if the record is not perfectly clean.

Both types could use a shaving of their tips.

For some reason the Shibata is way more expensive that the MicroLine in the VM Audio Technica series.