Was YES' Close To The Edge Album Earmarked For Quad (See R2R Images Provided)?

[Zephead2112]

I just purchased these interesting reels from Omega Auctions which were consigned by Chris Squire's family (I posted about this yesterday in 'Random Stuff' but I now I've purchased them, I think that it's probably a better fit with this thread).

The reel containing 'And You And I' is particularly intruiging; from the track descriptions and the writing on the spine, I assume that they were thinking about a Quad release that never happened (note the 73/74 date marks top right). I'd be very appreciative if anyone has further knowledge of this. I also note from the spine that Tom Dowd appears to have been the engineer/producer in charge. I'm aware of his associations with Clapton, The ABB and Skynyrd et al but I didn't know that he had worked with Yes. I can't find a reference anywhere to say that he did.

I don't know whether or not the 1970 reels contain the finished studio versions of those tracks or something that was more 'work in progress'. I envisage that one or more reels will probably require baking before I can make a transfer to find out. Interesting stuff, I'm quite excited to own these. The 'And You And I' box would actually make quite a cool '3D' piece of wall art if framed and mounted properly.

 

[steelydave]

For what it's worth, during the original (abbreviated) Quadio run (CTA, Aretha), mastering engineer (and QQ member) Bob Vosgien had been looking through the Warners vaults and claimed that a quad mix of CTTE was done - I think ForagingRhino has since disputed its existence but your photos suggest Vosgien was right. Hopefully the mix of You and I on that tape was compiled on to a quad album master with the rest of the record and is resting safely somewhere in the Warner vaults.

Interesting to note that this mix was done at Criteria in Miami and has Tom Dowd's (T. DOWD) name on the spine. He's obviously famous outside of quad for producing a million huge albums from Layla to Lynyrd Skynyrd, but he also oversaw Atlantic's quad output and remixed most, if not all of the label's early quad output including Aretha's Greatest Hits, Bette Middler's Divine Miss M., and the upcoming Quadio release of Donnie Hathaway's Extension of a Man amongst others. It's sort of surprising to see his name on this, I was expecting that the quad remix of this album would've been done in the UK at Advision Studios, which is where the Gentle Giant quad mixes were done in 1975 and 1976, but perhaps they weren't ready for quad when this was done in late 1973.

Speaking of dates, it's interesting to see scrawled on the side of the box "9/9/73 or 21/1/74", presumably done by someone Squire or someone British, as Americans normally write in month-day-year format. Close to the Edge was originally released in stereo in September 1972, so my guess this mix was slated to be part of the small batch of evergreen titles reissued in quad in 1974 that included Black Sabbath's Paranoid, Deep Purple's Machine Head, Jethro Tull's Aqualung, and The Doobie Bros. Toulouse Street but for whatever reason wasn't released. They had plans to release a quad mix of Tales from Topographic Oceans in 1974 (press clipping included below) so maybe it was shelved in favour of that seeing as it was a 'current' album, even though a quad release of TfTO never happened either.

 

[Zephead2112]

For what it's worth, during the original (abbreviated) Quadio run (CTA, Aretha), mastering engineer (and QQ member) Bob Vosgien had been looking through the Warners vaults and claimed that a quad mix of CTTE was done - I think ForagingRhino has since disputed its existence but your photos suggest Vosgien was right. Hopefully the mix of You and I on that tape was compiled on to a quad album master with the rest of the record and is resting safely somewhere in the Warner vaults.

Interesting to note that this mix was done at Criteria in Miami and has Tom Dowd's (T. DOWD) name on the spine. He's obviously famous outside of quad for producing a million huge albums from Layla to Lynyrd Skynyrd, but he also oversaw Atlantic's quad output and remixed most, if not all of the label's early quad output including Aretha's Greatest Hits, Bette Middler's Divine Miss M., and the upcoming Quadio release of Donnie Hathaway's Extension of a Man amongst others. It's sort of surprising to see his name on this, I was expecting that the quad remix of this album would've been done in the UK at Advision Studios, which is where the Gentle Giant quad mixes were done in 1975 and 1976, but perhaps they weren't ready for quad when this was done in late 1973.

Speaking of dates, it's interesting to see scrawled on the side of the box "9/9/73 or 21/1/74", presumably done by someone Squire or someone British, as Americans normally write in month-day-year format. Close to the Edge was originally released in stereo in September 1972, so my guess this mix was slated to be part of the small batch of evergreen titles reissued in quad in 1974 that included Black Sabbath's Paranoid, Deep Purple's Machine Head, Jethro Tull's Aqualung, and The Doobie Bros. Toulouse Street but for whatever reason wasn't released. They had plans to release a quad mix of Tales from Topographic Oceans in 1974 (press clipping included below) so maybe it was shelved in favour of that seeing as it was a 'current' album, even though a quad release of TfTO never happened either.

View attachment 104721

Fantastic information, thank you for taking the time to write that out, very much appreciated!

Shame about TFTO!

 

[Zephead2112]

P.S. I note "Day Song" on the first 1970 reel; I'm assuming this could be 'Everydays' (?). I wonder if these recordings are 'sans orchestra'.

 

[atrocity]

I envisage that one or more reels will probably require baking before I can make a transfer to find out. Interesting stuff, I'm quite excited to own these. The 'And You And I' box would actually make quite a cool '3D' piece of wall art if framed and mounted properly.

Was that a known issue with Scotch recording tape? I thought it was primarily an Ampex problem.

 

[Zephead2112]

Was that a known issue with Scotch recording tape? I thought it was primarily an Ampex problem.

That's right. I'm hoping that I'll be lucky as it's Scotch 206 tape which I understand was not overly susceptible to SS. However, the image of the reel itself did look a little iffy. Ahead of the auction, Omega told me that all of the tapes consigned by the family were stored well and that they are good shape. I shall soon see!

 

[kvsawilson]

It was definitely in the old record catalogs as Q8. I had it on order with my local record store for at least a year and would go down every week just to be told that it will probably be here next week. Of course, eventually I realized that no one had ever actually seen a copy of it on Q8. Even had a friend tell me that he had it, but when I checked it out it was only a stereo 8-track.

 

[Zephead2112]

It was definitely in the old record catalogs as Q8. I had it on order with my local record store for at least a year and would go down every week just to be told that it will probably be here next week. Of course, eventually I realized that no one had ever actually seen a copy of it on Q8. Even had a friend tell me that he had it, but when I checked it out it was only a stereo 8-track.

Recollections such as this make my day, thank you sir.

 

[ssully]

I just purchased these interesting reels from Omega Auctions which were consigned by Chris Squire's family (I posted about this yesterday in 'Random Stuff' but I now I've purchased them, I think that it's probably a better fit with this thread).

The reel containing 'And You And I' is particularly intruiging; from the track descriptions and the writing on the spine, I assume that they were thinking about a Quad release that never happened (note the 73/74 date marks top right). I'd be very appreciative if anyone has further knowledge of this. I also note from the spine that Tom Dowd appears to have been the engineer/producer in charge. I'm aware of his associations with Clapton, The ABB and Skynyrd et al but I didn't know that he had worked with Yes. I can't find a reference anywhere to say that he did.

I don't know whether or not the 1970 reels contain the finished studio versions of those tracks or something that was more 'work in progress'. I envisage that one or more reels will probably require baking before I can make a transfer to find out. Interesting stuff, I'm quite excited to own these. The 'And You And I' box would actually make quite a cool '3D' piece of wall art if framed and mounted properly.

-- Tom Dowd was a producer/Atlantic records overseer on The Yes Album. After that there's no record of him working with Yes that I know of.

--The dates written on the quad tape box don't correspond to any time Yes was known to be in or near America, much less Florida. On 9/9/73, they were still recording Tales from Topographic Oceans in London . On Jan 21 1974 , they were still in England, prepping for their upcoming American tour. The tour brought them to Florida from Feb 7 (the first gig of the US Tales tour) to Feb 9. So this quad project was done without known Yes input.

 

[ssully]

For what it's worth, during the original (abbreviated) Quadio run (CTA, Aretha), mastering engineer (and QQ member) Bob Vosgien had been looking through the Warners vaults and claimed that a quad mix of CTTE was done - I think ForagingRhino has since disputed its existence but your photos suggest Vosgien was right. Hopefully the mix of You and I on that tape was compiled on to a quad album master with the rest of the record and is resting safely somewhere in the Warner vaults.

Interesting to note that this mix was done at Criteria in Miami and has Tom Dowd's (T. DOWD) name on the spine. He's obviously famous outside of quad for producing a million huge albums from Layla to Lynyrd Skynyrd, but he also oversaw Atlantic's quad output and remixed most, if not all of the label's early quad output including Aretha's Greatest Hits, Bette Middler's Divine Miss M., and the upcoming Quadio release of Donnie Hathaway's Extension of a Man amongst others. It's sort of surprising to see his name on this, I was expecting that the quad remix of this album would've been done in the UK at Advision Studios, which is where the Gentle Giant quad mixes were done in 1975 and 1976, but perhaps they weren't ready for quad when this was done in late 1973.

Speaking of dates, it's interesting to see scrawled on the side of the box "9/9/73 or 21/1/74", presumably done by someone Squire or someone British, as Americans normally write in month-day-year format. Close to the Edge was originally released in stereo in September 1972, so my guess this mix was slated to be part of the small batch of evergreen titles reissued in quad in 1974 that included Black Sabbath's Paranoid, Deep Purple's Machine Head, Jethro Tull's Aqualung, and The Doobie Bros. Toulouse Street but for whatever reason wasn't released. They had plans to release a quad mix of Tales from Topographic Oceans in 1974 (press clipping included below) so maybe it was shelved in favour of that seeing as it was a 'current' album, even though a quad release of TfTO never happened either.

View attachment 104721

Yup, that never happened. Though at least some of the live shows were presented in quad.

 

[steelydave]

Tom Dowd did all of Atlantic's quad mixing at Criteria, so it's no surprise he'd do this there, and the major labels did almost all of their quad mixing without band involvement. Maybe that's why this mix was never released, and why Squire had it in his possession, they weren't happy with it and didn't want it released. In Squire's hands there's no way the label puts it out without their knowledge.

 

[ssully]

The auction items were bought by a Yes fan. He's had them transferred to digital already and has begun posting a little about it on Facebook though his comment is a bit confusing. Expand this to see 'All Comments' to see the post by Billy Beamish





In case that doesn't work, here's the most informative part:

Billy Beamish:
[...] These are master tapes (8-track and 4-track with regard to the 'Quad' reel...which is a live version by the way!). I have only just had them baked and transferred/mixed/mastered and need to review the results properly but I can say that, after a cursory listen, they are quite spectaular (particularly 'No Opportunity" which sounds immense). I will report back once I've properly digested the files. It was not my intention to 'tease' and I'm a bit stuck in terms of copyright. However, I thought that many YESfans would be interested to know what was on the reels, especially the Quad mix of AYAI and 'Day Song' as they never reached the light of day. The vocal track on the former is a little rough but the TAAW stuff is stellar. More tomorrow if I can.....

 

[steelydave]

If it's a live version, possibly it's part of the (currently MIA) quad mix of Yessongs? It ticks a lot of boxes since we know it was exhibited theatrically with a quad mix, and that in this late '72/early '73 era Tom Dowd was remixing quad en masse at Criteria, including many albums he didn't originally engineer originally like Bette Midler's The Divine Miss M, Donny Hathaway's Extension of a Man, Herbie Mann's Hold On, I'm Comin', and Aretha's Best Of.

With the Yes catalog having recently being sold to Warners, perhaps the conditions are right now for them to dig up the YesSongs quad mix, marry it up with the original 16mm film negative and release the first ever 'Visual Quadio' Blu-Ray.

 

[Zephead2112]

The auction items were bought by a Yes fan. He's had them transferred to digital already and has begun posting a little about it on Facebook though his comment is a bit confusing. Expand this to see 'All Comments' to see the post by Billy Beamish





In case that doesn't work, here's the most informative part:

Yes, that's me! Interesting that somebody was thinking of a Yessongs Quad mix (?). Which bit confused? I'll try to clear that up if possible.

 

[ssully]

If it's a live version, possibly it's part of the (currently MIA) quad mix of Yessongs? It ticks a lot of boxes since we know it was exhibited theatrically with a quad mix,

But it seems that cinematic 'quad mix' was not what we'd call a home audio quad mix. It was likely three front channels and a mono rear channel.

(Unless it wasn't.)

and that in this late '72/early '73 era Tom Dowd was remixing quad en masse at Criteria, including many albums he didn't originally engineer originally like Bette Midler's The Divine Miss M, Donny Hathaway's Extension of a Man, Herbie Mann's Hold On, I'm Comin', and Aretha's Best Of.

With the Yes catalog having recently being sold to Warners, perhaps the conditions are right now for them to dig up the YesSongs quad mix, marry it up with the original 16mm film negative and release the first ever 'Visual Quadio' Blu-Ray.

There was a concerted effort to locate the original film elements long ago, back when the laserdisc was being prepared. They were reported missing.

 

[steelydave]

But it seems that cinematic 'quad mix' was not what we'd call a home audio quad mix. It was likely three front channels and a mono rear channel.

(Unless it wasn't.)

I think @atrocity cleared it up pretty well in his own post (and I absolutely bow to his knowledge of cinematic sound formats) but just for clarity, what you're describing is called an LCRS (left-center-right-surround) and existed before - and concurrently - with quadraphonic (front left-front right-left surround-right surround) mixes. Again I'm sort of out of my depth, but it's my understanding that the 'S'urround channel in an LCRS mix didn't offer a ton in terms of immersion, because aside from being mono, it was also (at least in theatrical exhibition) bandwidth limited because that channel wasn't really intended to carry audio, it was for projector sync or some other technical purpose. I believe theatrical quad (in ideal setups) was supposed to off four full-range discrete channels, which is probably part of the reason it failed along with quad - theaters didn't want to pay to install yet another speaker system. But I guess it did pave the way for 70mm 6-track sound and eventually theatrical 5.1 sound, which we can thank for our own home theater systems today.

There was a concerted effort to locate the original film elements long ago, back when the laserdisc was being prepared. They were reported missing.

This is obviously the optimistic viewpoint, but I think there's always a distinction between 'couldn't be found/not yet located' and 'confirmed destroyed' - obviously the former doesn't guarantee you'll find them, but the latter definitely guarantees that you won't. I'm no Yes expert but take the tapes that were used for that Progeny box set of a few years back - it's my understanding that those were considered "lost"...until they weren't.

 

[ssully]

In decades of followig the band I never saw the Yessongs album multis referred to as lost, more like 'no one knows if they still exist'. I barely saw them referred to at all, for the most part. except speculatively on QQ and Hoffman forums. This in contrast to , say, Going for the One, which Steven Wilson did want to remix, but we have been told publicly that the multis cannot be found. (Curiously, the status of Tormato and Drama tapes has not been specified)

There were a set of 'flight case' tapes that were 'lost' but those never purported to contain all the Yessongs multis, perhaps just some tapes that might have been the Bruford-era Yessongs tracks....and interestingly, these seem to have resurfaced on the latest Fragile release as bonus tracks. The performances on that release are not the same performances as found on Yessongs, though.

The third component of the Yessongs LP, the Rainbow, London performances from late 1972 (also the source of the Yessongs movie), have never been reported missing or present...just never reported as anything...except in reference to the movie.

The three front/mono surround 'quad' (LCRS) is the same as the earliest home Dolby 'surround' format, right down to the bandwidth limit on the mono surround.

Atrocity left open the question of existence of a true quad mix (LfRfLsRs) and presentation of the Yessongs movie, and on the long Yessongs movie thread, Mark Anderson ( of quad discography fame) seemed quite firm in the opinion that it did not exist.