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View Poll Results: Rate the DVD-A/BDA of King Crimson - DISCIPLINE

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  • 10: Great Surround, Great Fidelity, Great Content

    41 59.42%
  • 9:

    17 24.64%
  • 8:

    8 11.59%
  • 7:

    2 2.90%
  • 6:

    1 1.45%
  • 5:

    0 0%
  • 4:

    0 0%
  • 3:

    0 0%
  • 2:

    0 0%
  • 1: Poor Surround, Poor Fidelity, Poor Content

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Thread: King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A/BDA]

  1. #1
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    Default King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A/BDA]

    Please post your thoughts and comments on this DVD-Audio release from King Crimson.

    KC discipline.jpg


    1. Elephant Talk
    2. Frame by Frame
    3. Matte Kudasai
    4. Indiscipline
    5. Thela Hun Gingeet
    6. The Sheltering Sky
    7. Discipline

    Bonus tracks:

    Alt. mixes of The Sheltering Sky & Thela Hun Ginjeet mixed by Steven Wilson.

    DVD-A:

    Discipline
    - 5.1 Lossless Surround Sound mix
    - DTS 5.1 Surround Sound mix
    - Album new mix - High Resolution Stereo
    - Album original mix - High Resolution Stereo
    - Rough mixes of the album in its first intended running order

    Old Grey Whistle Test videos

    + further audio extras
    :-jon

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    Default Re: King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A]

    Wow!!! I've always loved this album, it's my favorite KC album. My expectations were high and they were greatly exceeded. This is just a spectacular mix with incredible content. I can still see Belew coaxing that elephant sound out of his guitar when I saw them live around the time this album was released. To me this is the definitive KC line-up and this is their definitive album. Obviously handled with love and executed perfectly. I couldn't ask for anything more.

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    Default Re: King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A]

    Well I gave it a first spin this morning. As I've said before, this is far from my fave KC lineup and I didn't like this record when it came out. Over the years my opinion never changed much except to say "at least it's better than "Beat." This new 5.1 mix though has improved my opinion of the album a lot...quite frankly it's simply superb, the mix really brings the music to life.

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    Default Re: King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A]

    Got this last Saturday.
    This is what I have been waiting for.
    Brilliant in every respect.
    The only nit I can pick is that the spoken word in Thela is little hard to pick out in the mix.
    So far I only have Red and Discipline but I will have to pick up the entire set before year's end.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A]

    I was in a "new wave" band when this first came out. We were in the studio trying to recreate the gated drum sound of the day - think Hall & Oates meets Foreigner meets The Cars. Being an old 'crim head (it had been some time since the last Crimson release) I picked this up (on vinyl) to play for the band before the evenings proceedings. To say that we were humbled would be an understatement - interesting to note that just prior to the release of this album, Fripp was slumming as a studio gun for hire in NYC playing and producing for the likes of Daryl Hall, Hall & Oates (Beauty On A Back Street) and the Roche Sisters to name a few. Adding Adrian and Tony Levin to the mix was pure genius and a completely alien new sound was created. The DVD A does not disappoint and like Starless presents a spectacular & always respectful SW mix. Bonus material galore and some pretty insightful liner notes. A 10!
    Last edited by elmer; 10-10-2011 at 04:52 AM.

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    Default Re: King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A]

    There've been so many recent 5.1 releases lately that I thought I could deal with the later delivery date inherent in ordering this through Amazon. However by chance, a ticket to see the sold out "Two of a Perfect Trio" show just two blocks from where I live became available at a very small venue, the Old Town School of Folk Music. The first band was Stick Men, which to those unfamiliar is a trio including Tony Levin and Pat Mastelotto from King Crimson. They played for 45 minutes and then the Adrian Belew Power Trio came on stage. Both bands sounded good and were really tight, but the best part came when all six members joined on stage for a massive King Crimson set! Hearing three fourths of King Crimson play four songs from Discipline in a super loud and powerful fashion really made me wish that I ordered "Discipline" from Burning Shed so that I could hear it right now! It's going to be a long three weeks of waiting!

  7. #7
    organ of Corti junkie kap'n krunch's Avatar
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    Default Re: King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A]

    Since it couldn't be any other way, I vote a SOLID 10 for BOTH the Music and Mix!!!
    It is quite a revelation, considering that there aren't that many different elements in the original recording and that the Frippster is a reverb-a-phobic.

    When I heard the beginning , I thought, "well, here is the band", but when the guitars came in FROM THE REAR, I went "YESSSSSSS!!!!"...a truly great mix...

    As always, I have ONE little complaint -which I will not detract from the rating cause it's like a dream come true (can't wait for 3OAPP, or TCOL or LTIA or...well, you know...I'm a serious Crimhead):

    at the end of "Frame by Frame" (the coda), the "melody" was played by Tony L on the gtr part of the Stick with a volume pedal swell---it's not there anymore..is it just me????
    Avatar: a Goddess...Capucine -...The Ice Queen
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    Default Re: King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A]

    It is funny how things turn out.

    Having been an early KC fan, there were a few discs that I never listened to. Back then, I thought that Discipline was "Discipline" and not KC.

    Having ordered Starless and Bible Black and Discipline together, I knew what to expect from Starless and Bible Black but Discipline would be new territory for me. How dumb could I have been?

    Discipline is one FUN ride! Where as I sit and listen to most other KC efforts, I actually move and listen to this one. What a treat!

    I want to thank the "Usual Suspects" from this forum who helped in making this release a reality. I have something truly new and truly wonderful to enjoy time and time again.
    Frantic_Audioholic

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    organ of Corti junkie kap'n krunch's Avatar
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    Default Re: King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by Frantic View Post
    It is funny how things turn out.

    Having been an early KC fan, there were a few discs that I never listened to. Back then, I thought that Discipline was "Discipline" and not KC.

    Having ordered Starless and Bible Black and Discipline together, I knew what to expect from Starless and Bible Black but Discipline would be new territory for me. How dumb could I have been?
    Don't blame yourself for those mistakes, especially when NOW you can DISCOVER this INCREDIBLE STUFF on MULTICHANNEL!!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Frantic View Post
    Discipline is one FUN ride! Where as I sit and listen to most other KC efforts, I actually move and listen to this one. What a treat!
    LOL, this is GREAT FUN!!! i agree with you , although I can't MOVE much now....


    Quote Originally Posted by Frantic View Post
    I want to thank the "Usual Suspects" from this forum who helped in making this release a reality. I have something truly new and truly wonderful to enjoy time and time again.
    Couldn't have said it better, although I have tried!!! too
    Avatar: a Goddess...Capucine -...The Ice Queen
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    "LIFE is NOT in Stereo , it's in SURROUND, so why limit your music to stereo...? By that same train of thought we should've stayed in MONO..." -Me

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    Default Re: King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A]

    Yet another 10 from me. If I had to define this surround mix in one word, it would be "Discrete". The instruments are incredibly defined and situated, all in a minimalist approach that suits so well with the album itself. Discipline as a mean, indeed.

    PS: Kap, get well soon so we can have that beer...

  11. #11
    organ of Corti junkie kap'n krunch's Avatar
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    Default Re: King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by ArnoldLayne View Post
    Yet another 10 from me. If I had to define this surround mix in one word, it would be "Discrete". The instruments are incredibly defined and situated, all in a minimalist approach that suits so well with the album itself. Discipline as a mean, indeed.

    PS: Kap, get well soon so we can have that beer...
    Yes, there is a "minimum but enjoyable" panning (e.g., Ade's "elephant" gtr in Elephant Talk") and MANY elements that were "hidden" or not used in the original mix...Love SW's "The Sheltering Sky" alternative mix with different solos on it...still digesting..the "reverbed" premix is a great extra too...

    I also enjoy how clearly the Stick Bass on "Indiscipline" is "Multichanneled", meaning that the same signal was split (or not) to have a distorted and clean sound at the same time....

    (EDIT- I also LOOOOVE how the "creepy" Fripp solo on "Th Sheltering Sky" is presented in Surround; comes from RR but with echoes on RF and LF (maybe some on LR, but not much-it adds so MUCH to the original mix "intention")

    BTW, Arnold Layne, I am DEFINITELY looking forward to alcohol consumption, especially in Madrid with you! ˇSalú!
    Avatar: a Goddess...Capucine -...The Ice Queen
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    "LIFE is NOT in Stereo , it's in SURROUND, so why limit your music to stereo...? By that same train of thought we should've stayed in MONO..." -Me

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    Default Re: King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A]

    This is a easy one for me to rate,10,10,10.
    I absolutely love the guitar inter play between Fripp and Below and the clarity on this recording for this surround release is just outstanding.
    So far from the KC's that have been released: Court and Lizard are my favorites for both content and over all musical goodness.
    Great sounding album.

    peter

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    Default Re: King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A]

    For me the big difference on the surround mix is Levin's stick. Before it was "buried" and very hard to focus on. Now you have it right there.. The drums sounds great too!

    Love how the guitars are (mainly) in the rear and stick and drums in the front channels.

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    Default Re: King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A]

    I confess that before joining this forum I hadn't heard very much King Crimson, I guess they weren't played on my FM radio station during my teen years. I had never heard a track off Discipline before. As I've generally enjoyed the KC releases, particularly the surround mixes by Mr Wilson, I was certainly looking forward to this but to say I am impressed is a great underststement. This is a great album. I am a big Talking Heads fan (always have been) and my favourite era is the era of Fear of Music and Remain in Light, i.e. the time where Fripp and Belew collaborated with them. Discipline is worthy of mention in the same breath as those 2 great albums. Its funny, I think of I Zimbra completely differently now, almost like it is a Talking Heads cover of KC and Elephant Talk clearly could have been a track on a Talking Heads album from that era. Thela Hun Ginjeet would have been the best track on My Life in the Bush of Ghosts but it was a bit too musical
    I like to become acquainted with unfamiliar music in stereo first and move on to the multichannel mix when I understand the album, it is such a good idea to have the KC releases with CD and DVDA. The multichannel mix is an absolute delight. Steven Wilson should be cloned so that great albums can be redone this way (not like Moving Pictures by Rush)
    I have given 10's before for the KC albums, this really is a 10+
    He who laughs last.......thinks slowest

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    Default Re: King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A]

    I'm docking this otherwise excellent and highly recommended release two points for

    1) using the 'new' mix of "Matte Kudesai" -- I don't care what Belew or Fripp think, Fripp's overdub on the original mix is just plain beautiful. They could have at least included a 5.1 mix of the overdub version, as an alternate.

    2) I do wish surround mixers would give in to the 'quad cliche' once in awhile and let a showy drum roll go around the listener in a circle -- Indiscipline would have been a great place for this, but , at least in my setup, I didn't hear it happen.

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    Default Re: King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A]

    Even without the shipload of extra's it is a great surround release. The interplay between Fripp and Belew greatly benefits from this mix. I guess the newer KC recordings were in better condition too.

    @ssully I can hear the drum rolling front to back a couple of times, to me a good alternative to wild panning.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A]

    I just had to mail mine back today costing me almost $3. This cardboard packaging doesn't hold up in the mail with the new downgraded mailers everyone is using now.

    How about the top score being for: Great Surround, Great Fidelity, Great Content, Great Packaging

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    Default Re: King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A]

    Fantastic! Simply wonderful. Nothing else to say, except that I can finally hear the intricacies of what Tony Levin is doing with The Stick in the expanded soundstage.

    Too bad they cropped off a bit of Curt Smith from Tears For Fears - he's visible in the front row of one of the live pics in the booklet. I have the KC box set from 1991 and the huge booklet in that set shows a wider version of that pic and he's very visible.

    EDIT:
    Here's a less cropped pic.

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    Default Re: King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by Felix E. Martinez View Post
    Fantastic! Simply wonderful. Nothing else to say, except that I can finally hear the intricacies of what Tony Levin is doing with The Stick in the expanded soundstage.

    Too bad they cropped off a bit of Curt Smith from Tears For Fears - he's visible in the front row of one of the live pics in the booklet. I have the KC box set from 1991 and the huge booklet in that set shows a wider version of that pic and he's very visible.

    EDIT:
    Here's a less cropped pic.
    Hi Feliz, thanks for the uncropped pic...I myself would've NEVER guessed that Curt Smith was Krimson fan...Roland , on the other hand..maybe...

    BTW nobody has confirmed my question regarding the "Frame by frame" coda..........
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    Default Re: King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by kap'n krunch View Post
    Since it couldn't be any other way, I vote a SOLID 10 for BOTH the Music and Mix!!!
    It is quite a revelation, considering that there aren't that many different elements in the original recording and that the Frippster is a reverb-a-phobic.

    When I heard the beginning , I thought, "well, here is the band", but when the guitars came in FROM THE REAR, I went "YESSSSSSS!!!!"...a truly great mix...

    As always, I have ONE little complaint -which I will not detract from the rating cause it's like a dream come true (can't wait for 3OAPP, or TCOL or LTIA or...well, you know...I'm a serious Crimhead):

    at the end of "Frame by Frame" (the coda), the "melody" was played by Tony L on the gtr part of the Stick with a volume pedal swell---it's not there anymore..is it just me????
    At the start of the FbF; there is an earlier, additional drum roll and a lower volume, before the big roll a few seconds later.


    These old ears cannot hear that drum lick in any of the previous releases: however in the the raw mix, it is present , but at full volume.

    I'll double check the F2F ending when i get home

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    Default Re: King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A]

    Fantastic work here all around. The particular guitar patterns of this album were tailor made for a fairly aggressive surround mix like this one. Buy this!

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    Default Re: King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by kap'n krunch View Post
    BTW nobody has confirmed my question regarding the "Frame by frame" coda..........
    I think you're thinking of the live version of "Frame By Frame" on "Absent Lovers."

    J. D.

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    Default Re: King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A]

    This isn't a review, but I noticed something in listening to the new issue of "Discipline" that might be of interest to others.

    The first line of "Elephant Talk" ("Talk. It's only talk") is different from the original album in both Steve Wilson's remixes as well as the 12-inch mix and the rough mix. I've figured out that for the original album mix, they copied the vocal of same lyric from the second verse into the first verse. The vocal line is time shifted a bit so it's not merely an edit. I wonder why Steve didn't replicate that?

    J. D.

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    Default Re: King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A]

    Quote Originally Posted by jdmack View Post
    I think you're thinking of the live version of "Frame By Frame" on "Absent Lovers."

    J. D.
    Yup. The Stick backing was never on the studio version.

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    Default Re: King Crimson - Discipline [DVD-A]

    When my son, one day, asks me, "daddy, what does a perfect surround mix sound like," I'll say, "son, it sounds like the job Steve Wilson did on 'Discipline."

    Bravo. 10.

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