CBS MASTERWORKS "Stealth" SQ CDs?

[fredblue]

I've been buying these discs steadily, for as little as 30p and never anymore than £2, recently, they are uniformly excellent sound and lovely "familiar" pieces and performances, as befits the "Greatest Hits" moniker I guess.

However, the main draw is that most of them sound absolutely wonderful when played back in synthesized quad!

These are the discs I'm on about..

 

[fredblue]

If anyone could give me a bit more dope on these discs would be great as I can find little to no info on them hitherto..

 

[Disclord]

I can't read from the pictures what year they are from but I doubt they are SQ encoded - CBS issued very few single inventory SQ titles and while a lot of their later LP reissues used the SQ master, I'm not aware of any CD's other than Annie and Chase that are in SQ - which sucks because CD has such perfect phase accuracy they decode much better than from LP. CBS liked the full surround type mix and not the ambience type that was more common to QS and CD-4 so playing them through an SQ decoder like the Tate or Involve SQ unit should make it pretty clear if they are SQ or not. The reason they liked full surround is instruments in the back channels made the gain-riding logic decoders operate better than just enhancing the front and reducing the back channels, which with an ambience recording caused a loss of the ambience, which sounded weird.

BTW, I installed Windows 8.1 on my laptop today and it has a learning curve that is totally different from Windows 8, so weird things happen or words get replaced so bear with me while I learn it. I wish there was a way to install Mac OS X in a dual boot like you can do on a Mac. I've always been much more comfortable with a Mac.

 

[fredblue]

The CDs themselves all say (C)1984 CBS Inc. with varying (P) dates from 1959 to 1980 with everything in between (including 76-77 on the Vivaldi disc, which I thought coincided with some of the SQ single inventory LPs?).

The final selection on the "Bach Greatest Hits" CD (cat. no. MLK 39431) has to be heard to be believed in PLII..!! The Final Movement from The Brandenburg Concerto No.3 in G Major performed by Wendy Carlos on the Moog is absolutely sensational in "surround"..!!!! NO hype.

 

[Disclord]

The CDs themselves all say (C)1984 CBS Inc. with varying (P) dates from 1959 to 1980 with everything in between (including 76-77 on the Vivaldi disc, which I thought coincided with some of the SQ single inventory LPs?).

The final selection on the "Bach Greatest Hits" CD (cat. no. MLK 39431) has to be heard to be believed in PLII..!! The Final Movement from The Brandenburg Concerto No.3 in G Major performed by Wendy Carlos on the Moog is absolutely sensational in "surround"..!!!! NO hype.

The fact that the Wendy Carlos sounds good in PL-II tells me that its not SQ - While the front stereo stage, LCR, is encoded in Dolby and SQ the same way, even going through linear 0 degrees reference phase shifts, the rear channels of SQ have quadrature phase shifts and when played in Dolby PL or PLII the rears come from all channels, including the center front - even in PLII there is no separation of the rear channels except when an exact center back is encoded (and its encoded the same way in Dolby MP), which CBS StRONGLY discouraged because it disappeared in mono playback - they made the London Box to create a center back that didn't disappear in mono, but I'm not aware of any released recordings that used it since it came so late in the game. SQ wasn't a rotationally symmetrical matrix like QS, UMX, RM (and RM requires a position encoder so QS is NOT the same as RM), etc... so there are absolutely NO current decoders that can decode SQ (Neural kind of decodes it but sounds weird due to the hundreds of bands it uses) - to decode SQ, you must have an SQ decoder. SQ used the amplitude space, like regular stereo, to encode the front channels, and used the phase space between the channels to encode the rear channels. It also placed all separation on the left to right axis with 0 db separation between front and back, relying on logic or parametrically variable decoders to enhanced the F/B axis - this is because we are more sensitive to L/R shifts and by placing the logic action on the F/B axis, we are much less sensitive to any logic artifacts.

Do you have an SQ decoder with logic or a Tate or Involve SQ decoder? If not, you should get an Involve SQ unit if at all possible. I have never heard SQ sound so discrete and the 3-band decoding, coupled with SQ's 3 axis encoding allows multiple sounds to be localized with no loss of separation or pumping or imaging shifting. I have a Lafayette SQ-W decoders around here or at my dad's house somewhere - it is a full wave-matching decoder with Front-Back Vari-Blend logic - although its a gain riding decoder, it sounds very good on SQ and CBS even used it in their demo's or SQ. Anyway, if I can find it, you can have it so you'll at least have a good SQ decoder - it also has a passable, non-logic QS mode and a mode for synthesizing quad from 2 channels. The logic is only active in the SQ mode though. Keep a copy of this post in case I forget that I promised you could have the SQ-W for free - well, you'd have to pay shipping.

UGH - sorry for the semi-history of the development of SQ. I just get to typing and that kind of stuff spews out of me. I like QQ-ers to be totally educated on all the formats - I'm the same with LaserDisc on the LDDB forums but I don't visit there much anymore because everyone is obsessed with the semi-pedophilic Japanese Anime discs, which I have no interest in as they all look alike. and no one can find me a copy of the LD of Insatiable II which was SQ encoded by Gary Reber when he was involved with Tate Audio and Ruggles-Reber - it's the only X rated LD to advertise on the jacket that its encoded in Tate SQ!

 

[fredblue]

Thank you so for all the incredible info!!!! (I think you know by now I'm one of those guys for whom it's never "Too Much Information"..!!!)

Maybe pick some of these Masterworks up Ty!? (You may have some in the back of the closet!? They're so super cheap on Amazon, they cannot be rare or hard to come by!) The Bach, Beethoven, Vivaldi, Strauss, Mozart discs all have superb faux-surround and most of the other discs have at least a shining moment or three where PLII does its magic.

There's a few other older Masterworks CDs I picked up lately that also do fab things in PLII, including John Williams' Concierto de Aranjuez (MBK 45642 ..not the same catalogue number as the CD documented by Mark Anderson as decoding in SQ), Handel's Water Music (MYK 42595) and Beethoven's Violin Concerto (MYK 42613).

 

[fredblue]

Oh ps. Ty! I just re-read your latest post (I was super tired when you came thru last night) I don't have an SQ decoder, no! If you're sure, I'd love to take you up on your V.kind offer! (shipping will be a bit of a pig but of course I'd cover all that jazz!).

The Lafayette's have a good rep don't they? Pardon my ignorance but you just loop the Decoder out of the stereo on your CDP and into the 6-Ch Input on your receiver, right?

 

[Quad Linda]

Yes, the SQ decoder can be connected via your 6ch analog input. The Lafayette SQ-W decoder is one of the better ones.

Regarding CBS/US Columbia classical greatest hits, there are a number of "roughly equivalent" SQ LP's/Q8's. Are you capable of playing either format, Adam? Here's a few:





Mozart is also represented in this series.

Wendy (formerly Walter) Carlos on SQ/Q8:


On Dolby Surround CD:


Be sure to check out Mark Anderson's Quad discography's classical page: http://www.surrounddiscography.com/quaddisc/quadclas.htm

Happy decoding! :banana:

 

[fredblue]

Thank you Quaddess!!! Xxx

I don't have the capability to play SQ or Q8 sadly Linda, my turntable got bust during renovation works @home and I only have stereo 8-track player (a wonderful AKAI, built like a tank, looks very similar to the Q8 model with the glass head).. all my SQ/Q8 fun (so far) comes from all the amazing conversions I've found over the years!

Also, looking out for any SQ-encoded CDs was (I thought) a neat way to sidestep having to buy more gear and discs to get into SQ LP, though that may not have been the brainiest brainwave I've ever had?!

Looking through those Bach, Tchaikovsky, Beethoven, Chopin, Strauss & Mozart SQ Quad LPs you have found & depicted, they have exactly the same pieces and performances as all the 1984 CBS Masterworks CDs of the same titles I'm referring to in this discussion thread. Hmmm... What does that infer to you and Ty? The plot thickens like gravy!

I have the Telarc Switched On Bach 2000 Dolby Surround CD and its great, though I think I prefer Wendy's earlier stuff from the little I've heard, I prefer the sound and texture of the instrumentation she was using at the time in the 60's/70's.

Were all those SQ LPs you posted Pics of available on Q8 also, Linda?

Also, is Bernstein's Rite Of Spring Quad really as whacko discrete as its reputation suggests? I cannot find a conversion online unfortunately.. I'd love to hear it in all its glory!

 

[Quad Linda]

Yes, all the classical Quads I depicted were available as Q8's, many of which I bought.

Many Columbia/CBS Quads were sound spectaculars. In the later days, some titles were promoted as "classical title of the month", with the SQ's aggressively promoted at $2.99 in larger record stores. Carmina Burana and Tchakovsky 4 are titles I bought when offered as promo.



Among the Columbia/CBS Quads that were sound spectaculars. Ol' Ernest is well represented:

SACD fans may recognize this. The Quad marking is at the bottom of the cover.



Curiously, this Q8 lists TC8 verbiage at the bottom, which is a rarity for a Quad:




Although it's entirely possible that the classical greatest CD's are SQ encoded, yet most Columbia/CBS CD's of titles formerly available in Quad are NOT encoded. Them being the exact same performances does increase the likelihood of them being SQ, I would bet against it.

Finally, regarding Wendy Carlos, check out the 2ch Switched On CD boxed set OOP:

It features the original SOB, Switched On Brandenburgs and the oft-overlooked SOB II.

 

[fredblue]

Thank you Linda! you continue to marvel and dazzle with your infinite knowledge!! :yikes