Pioneer 563/565 & 578 - detailed information

[neil wilkes]

As we all know, these players have continued to exhibit serious problems with certain discs.
I have found this info published at the Lizard Lounge, which goes a long way to explaining the problems.
Quoted in full:

Here’s the skinny on the last one: The DVD forum updated the DVD-A specification in 2003 at the behest of Warner Music Group, Universal Music Group, and a handful of others to allow 2 things: the use of a Video Title Set Menu (VTSM) and an update of CCI (Copy Control Info) rules.

The VTSM allows the user to use the “Menu” button on the remote, and it frees up some restrictions for more flexible authoring. The CCI rules allowed for more diverse numbers to be used, in the “number of copies allowed” sense for legal DVD-A copying. The CCI implementation is what’s biting Pioneer in the rear.

The new CCI setting turns on a bit in the program stream that was previously unused. The Pioneer players are not set to recognize the updated version of the spec, so when they see a new bit that shouldn’t be there (or so the player thinks), it enacts its copy protection mechanism and mutes the audio. It thinks it’s doing the right thing, because it thinks it’s being fed a pirated disc.

This is a continuing problem with Pioneer, as I received a message from a Talking Heads fan with the same player some months ago.

This is massively interesting as it is the first confirmation of our problems that has come direct from Pioneer AFAIK.
and the 578 was also flawed, but it appears there is an update to it's firmware as well.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

I have the DV-588A which I have always assumed has the same issues. Pioneer has proposed a settlement to the class action suit regarding problems their players have playing discs, although I don't think DualDisc/DVD-A is a significant part of that suit. I assume every owner of an affected Pioneer player here has gotten the letter from Pioneer that describes the settlement proposal and options but if not, I can find a link. From what I could tell, the attorneys get $1.75 million and the owners of players get to read 16 pages of crap and try to decide if messing with the settlement is worthwhile. I tried and couldn't conclude it was but I have had to send my player in for repair and believe it has the best possible firmware already. I might be able to recover my shipping costs, but I probably won't bother.

Chris

 

[atrocity]

This is massively interesting as it is the first confirmation of our problems that has come direct from Pioneer AFAIK.
and the 578 was also flawed, but it appears there is an update to it's firmware as well.

And it's also interesting in that, once again, the innocent people are being completely screwed over in the name of copy protection.

 

[neil wilkes]

And it's also interesting in that, once again, the innocent people are being completely screwed over in the name of copy protection.

Which you cannot blame the content holders for.
The bad guy here is Pioneer - they knew this change had been made. They knew there was an issue with the player, and moreover this is far from it's only fault - what about the diversion of all below 200Hz to LFE?

It's Pioneer who screwed the customers over - not those who want to prevent - as far as possible - their expensive creations bveing uploaded online in the initial week of release.
I shudder to think of how much needed revenue has been lost thanks to ripping, and the misconception there is some form of "right" to copy DVD & DVD-A discs. There is no such "right" - this is sold as software on an "as is" basis.
Just because something can be done does not mean it should be.

Furthermore - the change to the CCI bit was put there to actually allow a single generation copy from the original.

 

[atrocity]

It's Pioneer who screwed the customers over - not those who want to prevent - as far as possible - their expensive creations bveing uploaded online in the initial week of release.

Well, I'm not sure that one precludes the other, though I certainly agree with you that Pioneer seriously dropped the ball here. Having said that, if I really believed that uploading (or giving a free copy to your friends, etc.) was the only thing the record labels were trying to prevent, I'd be on their side. But it's been made pretty clear that they want to control even what legitimate purchasers do with the stuff within their own homes, and that bothers me no end.

I shudder to think of how much needed revenue has been lost thanks to ripping, and the misconception there is some form of "right" to copy DVD & DVD-A discs. There is no such "right" - this is sold as software on an "as is" basis.

And I shudder at the thought of out-of-print items either truly disappearing or only being available on the hideously overpriced used market. I mean, c'mon, technically the many, many people here who've created DTS CDs and DVD-As from classic quad recordings are copyright violators, but I'm extremely grateful for their existence and work. Not all unauthorized copying is done for ill-gotten gains or out of other malice. (Yeah, I know, I'm repeating an argument I already made several months ago, but it's a sore subject with me.)

Furthermore - the change to the CCI bit was put there to actually allow a single generation copy from the original.

Very interesting. I wonder how that's supposed to work?