Sinatra at the Sands article
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I'm not a Sinatra fan but I have to say that I am excited about this one. I think it's just to see what can be done with multichannel mixing at this point. And sitting at a ringside table sounds like the right thing to try to acheive.
daved64
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Bob Romano said:
I'm a bit worried because i was not a fan of the "you're sitting where Neil was sitting" way of mixing Harvest. But, let's see what happens.
I'm really looking forward to this re-release of this fantastic album! Even though my friends and I were into hard rock in our youth this was one album that we loved to listen to. The big-band arrangements are killer and the up-tempo songs swing in a very cool way.
Had to choose between picking this up or the new/old Deep Purple decided on this and am glad I did. This is a nice disc. There are a couple of things to keep in mind about this disc:
First, it is a live recording from 1966, and second, it is a live recording from 1966. With that in mind I have to say "Wow". This is a great set and it sounds very very good considering the source. Very little tape hiss and not much to complain about the sonics. Not a ton of discrete use of the rears but enough. I found myself having to turn down the rears a bit as the vocals are mixed for the middle of the room rather than from the front. Turning down the rears a bit helped a lot in putting Frank more forward in the room. This is the best I have heard Sinatra sound in my house in any format and better than any studio recording I have of him. Highly recommended.
First, it is a live recording from 1966, and second, it is a live recording from 1966. With that in mind I have to say "Wow". This is a great set and it sounds very very good considering the source. Very little tape hiss and not much to complain about the sonics. Not a ton of discrete use of the rears but enough. I found myself having to turn down the rears a bit as the vocals are mixed for the middle of the room rather than from the front. Turning down the rears a bit helped a lot in putting Frank more forward in the room. This is the best I have heard Sinatra sound in my house in any format and better than any studio recording I have of him. Highly recommended.
GaryW said:
Well I went to the local (Toronto, Canada) BestBuy to pick this up and it wasn't there! Neither was Chicago V. They said maybe Friday. Instead the guy said the Tuesday truck was restocking for DVD-A after the big 20% off sale just passed. They weren't kidding. Hundreds of discs of things I already had!
@:
daved64
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
GaryW said:
Hmmm....you have me worried...since I didn't like Harvest, and the same guy, Elliot Mazer, I think, did this one too. Don't care for the "floating head in the middle of the room" routine.
I got this DVD-A today (along with Chicago V and Deep Purple at the BB in Manchester) and was pretty pleased. Got the wife to sit down and listen, and after I figured out this was the "Frank in the middle of the room" effect, I liked it a lot. The band is really clear, and while not a real "surround" effect with the instruments, it works well on this live effort. I would rate this one high, considering its age and that it is a live recording. An absolute must if you like Sinatra.
:-jon
:-jon
JonUrban said:
I am one of those guys who liked the mix on "Harvest" so I think this will be awesome. I have had a few FS discs over the years but have been looking for the ultimate one. Of course a perfect disc would not be whole without "New York, New York." But this one looks close.
radiodaddy
Well-known Member
I think this one may cause the same kind of flap that "Pet Sounds" has. Glorious sound - Sinatra's albums were always impeccably recorded, and this one is no exception. The Basie Orchestra in hi-rez is especially sweet.
The mix, however, may bum out vocals-in-the-center partisans. The orchestra is spread across the front soundstage and into the surrounds, with the drums in the center and Basie's piano on the left. Sinatra's vocals are on both the right and left sides, with some bleed to the surrounds. The liner notes indicated the remix was done directly from the original four-track recording. I suspect Mazer was trying to replicate the sound you would hear in a large club, with the orchestra coming at you essentially live and unamplified from all sides, and the vocalist coming through PAs on either side of the stage. As some (including myself) have noted with "Pet Sounds," the mix seems to work better if you turn down the rear speakers.
I like it. I can't wait to hear what they do with "September of My Years."
peace,
yrd
The mix, however, may bum out vocals-in-the-center partisans. The orchestra is spread across the front soundstage and into the surrounds, with the drums in the center and Basie's piano on the left. Sinatra's vocals are on both the right and left sides, with some bleed to the surrounds. The liner notes indicated the remix was done directly from the original four-track recording. I suspect Mazer was trying to replicate the sound you would hear in a large club, with the orchestra coming at you essentially live and unamplified from all sides, and the vocalist coming through PAs on either side of the stage. As some (including myself) have noted with "Pet Sounds," the mix seems to work better if you turn down the rear speakers.
I like it. I can't wait to hear what they do with "September of My Years."
peace,
yrd
daved64
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
I just saw the songlist for this, and it looks pretty tasty. I might have to get it and tweak the rears.....sounds like a good one.radiodaddy said:
I finally picked this disc up. Unfortunately I made the mistake of playing it right after the SACD of "Bucky Pizzarelli - Swing Live". What a huge difference!! Once I got used to the difference in the lower clarity and realism the Sinatra disc started to sound better. Sinatra's voice is impecably produced and the mix is very similar to "Harvest". Frank a lot of the time is sitting in your lap and is very realistic just like the Neil Young effect in "Harvest". The orchestra is less so. I was hoping on more impact to the orchestra but I guess it was recorded in 1966 so we can't expect that kind of punchy brass sound. A bit thin but some surprises in others. Overall for a recording of this age it is very good if not incredible. Just don't play Bucky before it. In fact, don't play Bucky before anything else. It is my new demo disc.
petermwilson
Senior Member
Hi,
Well, I picked it up last nite and it's most pleasant suprise to me was what they've been able todo with a live recording.
I wasn't overly impressed with the sacds Concert for New York City and Roger Waters in Berlin, which has made me a little apprehensive of a slew of "Front Row Live" efforts about to be released.
Guy, I liked Harvest also but I'll have to listen to it again because the similarities in mix don't come readily to mind.
Gary, I didn't do any speaker adjustments and don't feel (on my setup) that the rears were too emphasized. The surrounds did in my opinion put us alternately in the audience and in the center of the band and at times put the audience in the center of the band, of course the stereo mix which is supposed tobe 192/24 and is superb (BTW can anyone confirm the rez on 2ch) would take care of the surrounds issue.
This work was recorded in 66 and I did a quick comparison of the 61 sacd recording of The First Time the Duke Ellington and Count Basie which was a studio recording done in 61.
Even though the emphasis is on Frank Sinatra, The Count Basie orchestra was by no means in the background to the discs credit.
I think if I read the liner notes correctly Frank brought out his personal accompanyist/piano player Bill Miller for "One More for the Road".
I've made some mistakes in my choice of HIREZ purchases, this is deffinitely not one of them. "Sinatra at The Sands" will get lots of air time at my place.
Peter m.
PS: also Picked up Shania's "UP!", haven't listened to it yet
Well, I picked it up last nite and it's most pleasant suprise to me was what they've been able todo with a live recording.
I wasn't overly impressed with the sacds Concert for New York City and Roger Waters in Berlin, which has made me a little apprehensive of a slew of "Front Row Live" efforts about to be released.
Guy, I liked Harvest also but I'll have to listen to it again because the similarities in mix don't come readily to mind.
Gary, I didn't do any speaker adjustments and don't feel (on my setup) that the rears were too emphasized. The surrounds did in my opinion put us alternately in the audience and in the center of the band and at times put the audience in the center of the band, of course the stereo mix which is supposed tobe 192/24 and is superb (BTW can anyone confirm the rez on 2ch) would take care of the surrounds issue.
This work was recorded in 66 and I did a quick comparison of the 61 sacd recording of The First Time the Duke Ellington and Count Basie which was a studio recording done in 61.
Even though the emphasis is on Frank Sinatra, The Count Basie orchestra was by no means in the background to the discs credit.
I think if I read the liner notes correctly Frank brought out his personal accompanyist/piano player Bill Miller for "One More for the Road".
I've made some mistakes in my choice of HIREZ purchases, this is deffinitely not one of them. "Sinatra at The Sands" will get lots of air time at my place.
Peter m.
PS: also Picked up Shania's "UP!", haven't listened to it yet
petermwilson said:
The stereo hi-rez mix is 192/24.
petermwilson
Senior Member
Hi Manus,
I've loaded it into my dvd-a and my sacd which will play the dd5.1 and my Panny rp82 without the analog cables connected and it plays in Dolby prologic II which I don't understand but anyway it plays.
The fact that neither player will allow it to load means that it's still in the jewel case or its defective.
Peter m.
I've loaded it into my dvd-a and my sacd which will play the dd5.1 and my Panny rp82 without the analog cables connected and it plays in Dolby prologic II which I don't understand but anyway it plays.
The fact that neither player will allow it to load means that it's still in the jewel case or its defective.
Peter m.
I have never had a defective disc. Either I have been extremely lucky or my player cares less about flaws.
Manmc said:
petermwilson
Senior Member
Hi,
My original Chicago II disc was deffective, which was repaced by BestBuy. It had dropouts on several songs. the repacement was fine.
Thats the only one. I thought Miles Davis "kind of Blue" was a defective sacd based on the first 2 tracs, but was told it was a mic placement issue that was also evident on the LP.
Peter m.
My original Chicago II disc was deffective, which was repaced by BestBuy. It had dropouts on several songs. the repacement was fine.
Thats the only one. I thought Miles Davis "kind of Blue" was a defective sacd based on the first 2 tracs, but was told it was a mic placement issue that was also evident on the LP.
Peter m.
daved64
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Guy Robinson said:
Same here....same player....hmmmmmmmm
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