Software to burn SACD disks-- does it exist?

[dljewett]

This post will be a bit different. I'm a neuroscientist that does research on the auditory system. We are beginning to realize one possible reason why the regular CD limit at 48 kHz is an mistake-- based upon the wrong experiments. To continue my work I need to have a dynamic range (one channel) of 100kHz. AND I need to produce the stimuli with a computer program and burn a disk to play on a good SACD player. My searches for software have yielded nada. Imagine my surprise at finding a forum entitled "SACD software"!!!

But, when I searched for the word "software" on all 9 pages, I found nothing--- ahhh, maybe such software is hidden in the bowels of Sony/Phillips?

I have an immediate need, so if you know about software that could take a file and burn a disk that can be read by SACD,
I would certainly appreciate it.

Please email me at: [email protected] as well as
post here.

Many thanks,

Don Jewett

P.S.-- Don't be fooled by my email address. The research is supported by NIH (US Govt Health Research) and is not commercial.

 

[winopener]

To continue my work I need to have a dynamic range (one channel) of 100kHz.

If you absolutely need 100KHz bandwidth i doubt there's something that can fits you. High-end DAC are on the 192KHz *sample rate* which means a 96Khz bandwidth, below your 100 KHz need.
To go one step further you need a DAC which allows for 384KHz sample rate.
Moreover, at today there's no commercial software to author a SACD at home, the only thing that you can do is prepare the test files you need and then send them out to some facility that can produce a sample for you.
If the 100KHz limit is mandatory, i think you don't need a SACD at all - just play back the file with the DAC you got - it will be already very expensive.

If the 100KHz limit can be lowered a bit, the 96KHz is avalable on plenty of good soundcards and you can do a DVD-A disc at home with DiscWelder from Minnetonka

 

[Cai Campbell]

Imagine my surprise at finding a forum entitled "SACD software"!!!

Sorry to lead you astray, Don, but by "software" we mean "music discs". It is a bit of a slang, I suppose, to call the players "hardware" and the music media "software".

 

[dljewett]

If you absolutely need 100KHz bandwidth i doubt there's something that can fits you.

Thanks for your comment. I'm not strict in this, but I got
the 100kHz number from the SACD specs! So they claim
this, though probably at about 12-16 bit accuracy. But the
96kHz bit rate of DVD-audio is too low. The mistake is that the ear is a transient detector, not a tonal detector, so it is sensitive to rate of change, and the Nyquist limit is only for sustained tones, not transients. Hence SACD.

Thanks for the tip about getting someone to burn a trial copy.
I'll look into that.

And thanks for the note about the meaning of "software"
in the other message. I guess I'll just leave this thread, but
thanks for the info!

Don J.
I

 

[Ozzie62]

Don,

I was under the impression that DVD-A also supports 192khz sample rate in 2 channel mode. Most people think of the 6 channel version which is 24 bit 96khz with MLP packing. So if you want something that is close to 100kz in frequency response then this is your answer. I would checkout the URL below for some software that might be worth looking at
http://www.minnetonkaaudio.com/news/2003/july/discWelderBRONZE.html

Ozzie62

 

[winopener]

But the
96kHz bit rate of DVD-audio is too low. The mistake is that the ear is a transient detector, not a tonal detector, so it is sensitive to rate of change, and the Nyquist limit is only for sustained tones, not transients. Hence SACD.

Probably you got me wrong: with dvd-a you don't have a 96KHz bitrate, you have a 96KHz resolution, or frequency response: the samlping is done at 192KHz and ince it's PCM you don't have a lower dB factor to worry about.
96K is just 4 K lower of the 100K you were searching, and 96K is a lot easier to get that SACD.

 

[ssully]

If you absolutely need 100KHz bandwidth i doubt there's something that can fits you.

Thanks for your comment. I'm not strict in this, but I got
the 100kHz number from the SACD specs! So they claim
this, though probably at about 12-16 bit accuracy. But the
96kHz bit rate of DVD-audio is too low. The mistake is that the ear is a transient detector, not a tonal detector, so it is sensitive to rate of change, and the Nyquist limit is only for sustained tones, not transients. Hence SACD.

Are you sure about this? AIUI the Nyquist equation doesn't 'care' about transients, as long as the frequency remains within the Nyquist limit. Moreover, SACD becomes quite 'noisy' as you go further above 40 kHz or so....you wouldn't really *want* to hear that stuff (fortunately, we can't)!

Has any of your work been published yet? Or can you refer me to some work that's related to it? High bitrate/depths are generally used during recording to allow for further digital processing without audible degradation, not because 'more is better' in and of itself. You might want to try out your ideas on some other forums, where audio/engineering/scientist types hang out: e.g. these usenet groups

rec.audio.tech
rec.audio.pro
rec.audio.high-end


You might also be intrested to read DAC designer Dan Lavry's paper on sampling, including this one on why 96 kHZ is entirely sufficient:

http://www.lavryengineering.com/documents/Sampling_Theory.pdf
http://www.lavryengineering.com/index_html.html



There isn't any software available that lets you record your own SACDs, AFAIK. Thre is stuff available for DVD-A, but I'm not sure how high you can go in terms of sampling rates.

 

[bmoura]

If you absolutely need 100KHz bandwidth i doubt there's something that can fits you.

Thanks for your comment. I'm not strict in this, but I got
the 100kHz number from the SACD specs! So they claim
this, though probably at about 12-16 bit accuracy. But the
96kHz bit rate of DVD-audio is too low. The mistake is that the ear is a transient detector, not a tonal detector, so it is sensitive to rate of change, and the Nyquist limit is only for sustained tones, not transients. Hence SACD.

I'd suggest chatting with the SACD Project folks in the SF Bay Area office. They may be able to help here.