Two soundcards to capture 4-channels?

[jdmack]

Has anyone tried to use two soundcards to capture four channels of audio?

I recently completely purchasing the components I needed to play CD-4 records. However, when I tried to install an old Maya44 (4-in 4-out) sound card, it continuously crashed my computer on bootup. At first, I despaired, but then I had a thought. I have a Soundblaster USB soundcard installed on this computer, and I also have a sound card built into the motherboard that I've never used. Since Adobe Audition's multitrack environment allows ones to select different inputs for each track, I decided to try hooking the front outputs of my JVC 4DD-5 to the Soundblaster input and the rear outputs to the motherboard sound card input. It works! Sort of. The two recordings drift substantially as the recording goes along. Adobe Audition will correct for this, but it takes several minutes. Also, the two audio signals are out-of-phase relative to each other, though again, I can use AA to fix this.

The one downside to this setup is that there is no subwoofer action while I'm actually recording. I have to wait until playback to hear any bass.

J. D.

 

[JonUrban]

Hmmm. I think it should work. Since the software allows multiple inputs from Windows, it should stay in sync, I would think.

You are blazing a trail!!!

 

[Lucanu]

Well, you can record from multiple soundcards if the program you are using allows that to do it.
No matter if they are different in latency, since the source plays 4 channels together. Maybe you could get different eq...

BTW, have you tried to connect your MAYA to another PCI slot? Sometimes IRQs are shared with other cards (i.e VGA card) and that could cause problems, or voltage on PCI slot is not enough (depends on the standard). Last chance is to update Bios on your motherboard.

 

[Dylan Berichon]

The two sound cards probably won't sync up, unless they support some sort of clock sync. Different sound cards use different internal timers.

Some sound cards allow you to sync more then one sound card using S/PDIF to connect the cards.

But I would suggest that you use an actual multichannel sound card for recording multichannel sources.

 

[neil wilkes]

Using 2 different makes of soundcard is only possible in very rare cases.
It's certainly not possible at all if the card is using the ASIO protocols.
Reason being is that in nearly all audio applications you must set up an audio hardware dialogue, and as soon as you go to ASIO you are stuck with that card - or more instances of that card.
Using the Windows system to try & double up will give huge problems that you will in all fairness have difficulty curing, even in Audition.
1 - Phase problems.
2 - Different S/N ratios - vastly.
3 - Sync issues.
It's numbers 1 & 2 that are the real problems here - and you will be far, far better off indeed with a dedicated multichannel card instead.
When installing the previous one, did you turn OFF the embedded mobo chip in BIOS? If you didn't then this could well explain the crashes.

There are plenty of cheap cards that will do the job perfectly well enough - M-Audio do some, Terratec do some. It's generally better to avoid Creative Lies where possible though, and I would also try to keep away from USB as well.
FireWire is a serious option - I can think of several boxes that will do a great job, depending on budget.
Check out the Focusrite Saffire range. There are 4 altogether:
Saffire LE, Saffire, Saffire Pro 10, Saffire Pro 26.
The first 2 are boxes that are freestanding. The latter are 19" rackmountable units.
I have a Saffire Pro 26 - it's a sort of "Spare" in case my RME breaks down and although it does offer 192 options, the S/N is almost 12dB worse compared to the RME at 96KHz. What it does have are 8 Focusrite Green PreAmps, line/Mic inputs (x 8 - both 1/4" & XLR) and 2 banks of ADAT I/O as well as SP-DIF & AC3 "Passthrough" modes allowing both DD & DTS streams to be passed through the digital connections to a reciever.
For the standalone versions, see
http://www.focusrite.com/products/saffire/saffire_le/
http://www.focusrite.com/products/saffire/saffire/
(Oddly enough, the LE version has 6 in 8 out, whilst the full version has 4 in 10 out.)
For the rackmountable, see
http://www.focusrite.com/products/saffire/saffire_pro_10_io/
http://www.focusrite.com/products/saffire/saffire_pro_26_io/
(These may well be overkill for you right now though)

Seriously - change that sound card, and run all inputs through the same card. It will sound far better.

 

[Cai Campbell]

I'd be very wary of a software solution to resolve synch problems. The only way I would consider using two soundcards if they were the same make/model with an option for a master/slave confirguration where the master was providing the timing for both cards.

 

[JonUrban]

I'd be very wary of a software solution to resolve synch problems. The only way I would consider using two soundcards if they were the same make/model with an option for a master/slave confirguration where the master was providing the timing for both cards.

Good point! (As were Neil's)

Shows you how much I know!

 

[Lucanu]

Good point! (As were Neil's)

Shows you how much I know!

We are in two...:friday:

 

[jdmack]

All of the above observations and comments have been valuable, and believe me, a four-channel soundcard is on my wish list. It turns out that I have a bad PCI slot on my motherboard (and it's the last one open), so I'll either have to buy a new computer, or go with a USB card from AudioTrak. But that's an expense in my future. In the meantime, here is what I have discovered through my experiments.

I am using a Soundblaster USB soundcard for the front inputs and the VIA AC97 soundcard built into my MSI motherboard for the rears.

In Adobe Audition, I set the input for track one to the Soundblaster, and the input for track two to the VIA AC97. In the properties for the VIA AC97, I select "adjust to zero DC when recording"

When I record an album side, I start the recorder before the needle hits the record and keep recording until the needle lifts from the record. This gives me two clearly visible points in the .wav files to check sync.

When I stop recording, Adobe Audition automatically corrects the files for drift. It comes pretty close.

Using the bump in the .wav file where the needle hit the record as a visual guide, I move the rear audio .wav file very slightly forward until the bumps align. I then go to the end of the .wav files and look at the bump where the needle lifted from the record. It, too, is aligned.

In each case, the two bumps are clearly 180 degrees out of phase. In the two-track editor, I invert the phase of the rear audio recording.

Voila! A little bit of declicking and the things sounds pretty good to my ears.

J. D.

 

[deepsky4565]

Are there any ways to take 3 stereo spdif ins and record them, and also to output them?

 

[Lucanu]

All of the above observations and comments have been valuable, and believe me, a four-channel soundcard is on my wish list. It turns out that I have a bad PCI slot on my motherboard (and it's the last one open), so I'll either have to buy a new computer, or go with a USB card from AudioTrak. But that's an expense in my future. In the meantime, here is what I have discovered through my experiments.

J.D.
I think that your PCI slot is alright, you said that it's the last one and it has a different standard that doesn't allow some hardware to work correctly (soundcards, satellite card) which usually require more power than, say, a ethernet card.
You can try to switch your Maya with another card on your pc

 

[jdmack]

J.D.
I think that your PCI slot is alright, you said that it's the last one and it has a different standard that doesn't allow some hardware to work correctly (soundcards, satellite card) which usually require more power than, say, a ethernet card.
You can try to switch your Maya with another card on your pc

I tried that, which is how I determined that there was a problem with the slot itself. The working card that I moved into that slot (which was an ethernet card) didn't work there either.

J. D.

 

[Lucanu]

I had a problem like that and after I solved it my motherboard exploded 2 years later :xp: .... so it turned out to be a defective chipset

 

[jdmack]

Just to follow up on my adventure with recording CD-4 discs to my computer. I removed my ethernet card just to see if the problem was with my Maya44 or the PCI slot. The Maya44 installed with no problem! And just for fun, I thought I'd see if the non-functioning ethernet connection on my motherboard might have come back to life. It has! So the Maya44 can stay where it is and I still have access to the Internet (for now - something must have caused the problem way back when).

Next up - The Average White Band!

J. D.