elliot scheiner info.

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depeche76

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hi guys (plus Linda :D), i found this information about elliot scheiner http://www.jdmanagement.com/elliotscheiner/, you can "download" a PDF with his discography (not everything is included) but the recently released Lynyrd Skynyrd DVD-A is mentioned there (since feb 2012). I was also shocked to see he did a surround mix of a great new band "Band of Horses" album Infinite Arms, but this release has not seen the light of day yet, does anybody know something about this album in surround?????

I would love to hear "Laredo" in surround, that tune is great.
 
does anybody know something about this album in surround?????
I was just about to bring this topic finally up; I've found this 7-minute video from 2010 about recording this 5.1 mix in NYC. Enjoy!

Meanwhile, I'll try to dig up other sources claiming that the session is still going to be released at some point.
 
OK, concerning the fate of the 5.1 mix of Infinite Arms, here's an excerpt from this year's February issue of Sound+Vision magazine, p. 74:
According to the band's press rep, it was supposed to be included in the album's Deluxe Edition, but that idea was scrapped due to cost concerns. Latest update: "Still on the shelf. May be released in the future, though."
 
OK, concerning the fate of the 5.1 mix of Infinite Arms, here's an excerpt from this year's February issue of Sound+Vision magazine, p. 74:

Figures....damn, crying shame that the 5.1 mix exists collecting dust somewhere.

I appreciate all the older music mixed in 5.1, but am tired of not hearing anything newer. WTF?!....why do we have to hear just old stuff? I have just about ALL the sacd's and dvd-a's that's out there in the rock genre and would pay for more if it existed.
 
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A little late to the party but...

I was looking over the Schreiner discography PDF linked above, and noticed that he actually finished the surround mix of Van Morrison's Moondance.

I did some searching and found this 2001 Billboard article that speaks highly of the mix.

SCHREINER OPENS UP MAGICAL VIBE ON 5.1 MIX OF 'MOONDANCE'

A crying shame if this mix is never released. Such a classic album.
 
I'm surprised none of the numerous unreleased 5.1's (that we know for certain have been mixed) of huge classic albums have "slipped out the back door" over the years and made it out onto the net.. like the Chicago X DVDA did.

I'm thinking of things like the "Moondance" mix that's being discussed here now (I'd heard that it never emerged because of record company issues with Van Morrison & Warner.. but I'd also read somewhere that VM didn't approve of the 5.1 mix himself, so it got canned, does anyone know for sure what happened there?) ..

..but also Paul Simon's "Graceland" (the "super duper deluxe anniversary edition" of that has come and gone, so no chance of that 5.1 mix coming anytime soon now, I fear) plus Rod Stewart's "A Night On The Town", the "Fleetwood Mac" '75 album (one track escaped from the vaults on an Acura demo disc, afaik) .. and of course the Elton's and the Steely Dan's..

somebody must have heard some or all of them, or have copies of the surround mixes on promo DVD-R's or whatever, outside of the likes of Greg Penny, Elliot Scheiner, etc who mixed them in the first place..
 
Thought I'd post the article linked above before it disappears...


Billboard; 04/28/2001, Vol. 113 Issue 17, p51


SCHREINER OPENS UP MAGICAL VIBE ON 5.1 MIX OF 'MOONDANCE'

Section: Pro Audio/Artists & Music

STUDIO MONITOR

At the risk of sounding like a broken record (does anyone know what that means anymore?), multichannel music is coming on strong. The long-awaited increasing call for surround mixes, while not yet a deluge, is under way; mixing facilities--and mix engineers--that are capable of providing 5.1 music mixes are reaping the rewards of this demand.

I recently visited Westport, Conn., where engineer Elliot Scheiner was revisiting a project he initially recorded in 1969: Van Morrison's masterpiece Moondance. Long a favorite recording, Moondance will be released in a 5.1 mix by Warner Music Group on DVD Audio, pending the artist's approval. And it is astonishing.

The project, remixed at Presence Studios Westport, is a study in the evolution of recording technology-- and of popular music itself. Despite the antiquated equipment (by today's standards) at New York's A&R Studios, where the album was initially recorded and mixed, the master tapes reveal the magic of those sessions in 1969. With the possibilities afforded by today's technology, both in professional recording environments and consumer playback equipment, the full scope of the brilliance of Moondance unfolds all around the listener.

"Everything was tracked live," says Scheiner, recalling the summer and fall of 1969 in New York. "The vocals were live--I think there was only one or two songs where he decided to do a different vocal. Horns, guitars, lead guitars, everything was live."

The 31-year-old master tapes--Scotch-3M 202 1-inch--were in excellent condition, Scheiner notes with appreciation. Retrieved from storage at the Warner Bros. tape library in California, the tapes were recently transferred by Scheiner, at Capitol Studios in Hollywood, to two hard-disc multitrack recorders: Euphonix R-1 and the new Alesis ADAT-HD24, using Panasonic analog-to-digital converters. At Presence Studios, he is using Swissonic digital-to-analog converters on the ADAT-HD24.

"Here's a 1-inch, 8-track tape from '69, and we didn't have to bake it," Scheiner says. "It just played, and it sounded unbelievable, incredible. There was nothing across the heads--no dirt, no gunk, nothing. It was just great. The Euphonix sounds great, mind-boggling, and the Alesis sounds absolutely amazing, too. I was shocked at how good this thing is." (The ADAT-HD24 carries a $2,499 list price.)

Moondance was initially recorded on a Scully 8-track tape machine, through A&R's Class A Neumann console. Morrison's vocal microphone was a Neumann U 87, Scheiner recalls.

In the mix room, he adds, there was little to offer in terms of processing equipment.

"There was no in-line EQ [on the console]," he remembers, "so I know I didn't do anything to it. It was fairly flat, basically. It was just eight big rotary faders. The desk was angled; it was this funny console that was sitting on a tabletop. Up the side of the console were three additional faders, big rotaries, and the master fader was a big rotary as well. We had some outboard equalizers--we always made sure there were a bunch of Pultecs, so I'm pretty sure I used Pultecs. And we had Fairchild compressors; I know we used that on a couple of things. But generally it was fairly flat; there wasn't much going on. It wasn't real rocket science back then--it was more the vibe."

The vibe, clearly, was magical. With all the musicians in the same room--save Morrison and guitarist John Platania, situated in isolation booths, the doors open--the tracks were subject to plenty of leakage from other instruments. When Scheiner solos Morrison's rhythm guitar track on "These Dreams of You," on the Neve VR console at Presence, for example, drums are also distinct. But the simplicity of the recording and the magnificence of the young Morrison's muse create a timeless, exquisite statement.

The 5.1 mix is truly revelatory. After listening to the 10 tracks on Moondance literally hundreds of times on LP, cassette, and CD, I was nonetheless shocked to hear, on every track Scheiner played, details unearthed by the separation of left, center, right, left surround, and right surround speakers. Platania and pianist Jeff Labes playfully riffing on Morrison's jazz-inspired vocal phrasing or echoing each other's improvisational licks, the crisp snap of Garry Malabar's drumming on "Caravan," each note of Platania's acoustic guitar licks on "These Dreams of You," even Morrison drawing a breath to sing the next line of "Crazy Love"--all are revealed here in detail that cannot be conveyed in two channels or on a 16-bit, 44.1 kilohertz CD. Close your eyes, and it's easy to picture A&R Studios, 1969, a 24-year-old genius making his joyous declaration.

"You got the vibe, and you recorded it that way," Scheiner says. "[But] you hear everything now. That's the good thing about 5.1. When you open it up, you don't have things on top of each other. In some cases, you get to hear things you never heard before. In other cases, you are hiding things that come out too clear. Not in this case."

Scheiner recently remixed another classic album, the Eagles' Hotel California, at Glenn Frey's Doghouse Studios in Los Angeles for multichannel release. That session was the first surround mix done at Doghouse, Scheiner says, and he brought a set of Yamaha MSP10 monitors for the mix, which he had recently discovered. (He used KRK E8s for Moondance.)

"They were very comfortable to mix on," he says of the Yamahas. "I'm going to keep a set here and a set in L.A."

Scheiner also used the Lexicon 960 multichannel digital effects system for Hotel California. At Presence, he used the new Yamaha SREV1 digital sampling reverb.

"They have the most amazing-sounding EMT 140 echo plate [samples] in there," he says of the SREV1. "That's what I used originally [at A&R], so I'm using that for this. I'm also using the TC Electronic M3000 [reverb processor] and the Eventide Orville [digital effect processor]. That's got some very nice sounds in it."

Scheiner's surround mixes are subtle, tasteful. Like most engineers remixing catalog material, he does A/B comparisons with the 2-channel mix while creating the 5.1 mix.

"It's a great vibe, and I don't want to change that too much," he explains. "But you do have the opportunity to open it up. And people who have bought these [home theater] systems don't want to hear stereo. I don't want to disrupt the musicality of the record, but I do have to make use of all the speakers. So I try and do it as subtly and as musically as I can, so it's not disruptive to the song."

PHOTO (BLACK & WHITE): Engineer Elliot Scheiner, who has created a 5.1 mix of Van Morrison's Moondance at Presence Studios Westport, also remixed the Eagles' Hotel California in 5.1 at Glenn Frey's Doghouse Studios in Los Angeles, here he is using Yamaha MSP10 monitors.

PHOTO (BLACK & WHITE)

~~~~~~~~

By Christopher Walsh llis Stark
 
It is almost always the artist that pulls it at this stage, $ has been spent, sounds good, no one else would want to stop it.
 
I definitely think this one was held up by Van himself - he doesn't own the rights to his first 3 albums (Astral Weeks, Moondance, Street Choir) and has held up expanded CD remasters/reissues of these albums whereas all of his subsequent albums have been reissued in the last few years.
 
I definitely think this one was held up by Van himself - he doesn't own the rights to his first 3 albums (Astral Weeks, Moondance, Street Choir) and has held up expanded CD remasters/reissues of these albums whereas all of his subsequent albums have been reissued in the last few years.

so he doesn't own the rights but he still has control over whether any of those three albums are re-released.. interesting. unfortunate :(
 
Thanks for posting the article, I'd never come across that before. So strange to get that far, even talking about it in the press and then NOTHING.
 
This is the current record industry model I complain about all the time.

Because they sell 'product' that's just a widget to the marketing types, they make reduced quality or reduced content to give themselves something left to sell again next year. The concept of music continually being made seems lost on them. So they intentionally hold back masters (ie. high res) and surround masters and only sell portable copies (CD, mp3) with the intention of being able to sell the album to everybody a 2nd time "Now in full quality!".

What usually ends up happening is only the CD ever gets released and the world moves on without anyone getting to ever hear the master (or surround master if one was also produced).
 
Sitting here reading all this, has given me adjada-(a-ja-da) a stomach pain due to stupid actions of people. I feel as though I should ralph. I am disgusted. Grown adult men acting as morons. The work is done, the thing is prepped, and-nothing! Then the question, why? what was all that wonderful work for?
 
Business first and art, well didn't that go with the 1970s?

Fortunately smaller entities or artists themselves have picked up the ball.

This is our best hope. The major labels are catalog janitors.
 
Thanks for posting the article, I'd never come across that before. So strange to get that far, even talking about it in the press and then NOTHING.

It definitely happens. Sometimes it's a difference of opinion on how the disc sounds, the amount of the artist's advance payment, the label or rights get sold to someone else along the way, disagreement on what the cover art for the release looks like, etc. etc.

When I used to write for HFR and tried to track down releases that had been announced - but then didn't appear - the reasons and stories were amazing. I sometimes wondered how any titles made it to the finish line !
 
I hope he does a lot more music in surround and they get released over the next couple of years. Hell, he's already 66 and probably lost half his hearing. Though, he could probably still do a mix better than 99% of these characters at 90. :D
 
It definitely happens. Sometimes it's a difference of opinion on how the disc sounds, the amount of the artist's advance payment, the label or rights get sold to someone else along the way, disagreement on what the cover art for the release looks like, etc. etc.

When I used to write for HFR and tried to track down releases that had been announced - but then didn't appear - the reasons and stories were amazing. I sometimes wondered how any titles made it to the finish line !

How about sharing some of those stories, with the artist's identity redacted or replaced with a general description of what kind of artist it was? I think for us, knowing some of these reasons (no matter how outlandish) would be better than the radio silence we normally get from the labels!
 
How about sharing some of those stories, with the artist's identity redacted or replaced with a general description of what kind of artist it was? I think for us, knowing some of these reasons (no matter how outlandish) would be better than the radio silence we normally get from the labels!
Yeah, how about some stories to make grown men (and QL) cry.
 
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