How to create "pseudo" Quad mixes in Stereo-besides using the DPL II encoder.

[kap'n krunch]

Although most of you know my secret identity by now, I am going to ask this community to help me in my quest.
I have already done the audio posting (with my better half); music, FX and dialogue; for several animation shorts by my brother Pepe in Puerto Rico, one of them ("Ventana : La película"- it's on youtube) won 3rd place in the Karibukai Animation festival held last weekend in San Juan. It was a pleasant surprise for all of us, especially since one of the festival sponsors was Warner Bros.

For the mixdown of the 2 shorts, I decided to create a "faux" surround mix; placing a few elements(like the coquí) in the rears, but it wasn't very discrete...(duh!) since I got them in front and the rears(Hey, at least it's something).
What worked the best was having a short stereo delay panned hard L + R with both sides out of phase.
I tried using the "Stereo spread" and placing it OOP too, but it really didn't cut it..
Are there any of you who are willing to share a secret technique or give me any hints on how to do so?
Since these shorts will start to be broadcast sooner or later, it'd be a great asset for them to blasting out in Surround.
Saludos a todos.
G. Alberto

edit: I mean faux surround that can be played back in DPL II movie or music setting.

 

[DKA]

so you don't want something that is encoded in DTS or MLP......just something mixed down to stereo that will sound good in DPL? My question here is "why?" when you could just utilize SPEC and create a almost professional-quality mix. What are your limitiations that you have to go this direction?

If this is so, yes, you have to create additional width and depth in the stereo mix, and that will involve the use of stereo panners, etc. Your results are going to be what they are.

 

[DKA]

I also should mention that, if what you're looking to do is take a stereo "movie" track and turn it into a surround mix that also folds back down neatly to stereo, that's exactly what the otherwise-dissapointing new "Neural Upmix" by DTS does. Got $499?

You could probably find enough decent free stereo panners by spending a few hours on KVR as well.

 

[kap'n krunch]

KVR?
don't get it...

Yes, what I'm, looking for is for some kind soul in our forum who has had experience manipulating the phase of a certain signal/track to make it sound like it's coming from a rear channel instead of Font and Rear on the same side...
The same way that Synergy's "Cords" has sounds emanating from the rears without being QS or DPL II encoded...

Hey...you just gave me a great idea!!!
Lemme ask my pal Larry Fast....

 

[Ge Someone]

It sounds like you need a (Dolby) Prologic ENcoder, maybe you can find a plugin for whatever sound editor you use or some separate tool to "fold" your surround mix to stereo (decodeable with PL(II)). There might be some free tool as I recall that it wasn't that difficult to make such a thing (not that I can).
As a strange coincidence someone posted here on DIY PL II Encoding, but it is in hardware.

 

[Ge Someone]

-delete-

 

[kap'n krunch]

Thanks, that's what I was afraid of...

 

[DKA]

kvraudio is a free VST site, which may come in handy for you if you don't feel like, say, paying $499 for DTS Neural Upmix. there's a zillion things on there. trial and error will help.

like i said, you need something that increase what's being experienced spatially in your stereo mix. think of listening on headphones, what's in the front, rear, and center of the mix. this is actually what i use to predict what will make a good upmix. the more space and depth, the more likely you'll be able to cleanly guide something to the rears and have it seem more discreet. stereo panners, width enhancers, etc., will probably help. it'll never be SPEC, but you've got to work within your limitations.

 

[kap'n krunch]

DKA, Thanks for the reference!!!

Ge ; yeah , it was quite a coinckidink too, it's not the same approach but it is hlpful,

Cheers to both of you who have bothered to reply!

Saludos,

G. Alberto