Quad Noob - Progression of a new-found Technics Addiction

[siwelk]

Hello all,


Without inundating everyone on a historical background regarding my audio upbringing I am a 25-yr old male who's father was born in 1961. As a result, I have acquired over the years a small collection of LP's and 8 track tapes of mostly rock albums (Led Zep, Allman Bros., The Band) and the last time I was 'into' the audio game I was around 13.

Fast Forward just as many years and I've began taking an interest on recreating a quadraphonic 'sound-room' circa 1978, complete with a singular converged point-of-listen. Ultimately, I would like to complete a full Technics quadraphonic system including receiver, 8 track, turntable, reel-to-reel, audio scope, and 4 matching speakers.

I am somewhat knowledgeable but make no claim to expertise in this vintage field. Therefore, any advice or suggestions regarding my plans, opinions, etc. would be respectfully considered. After all, I am here to tap the 'community' for their comments.

I plan to update this thread periodically as I acquire equipment, somewhat of a 'build thread' if you will. I'll begin with my first 'find' in a thrift store this weekend. I found an ad on CL for a Technics RS-858US Quad 8-track player/recorder for $75 so I called about it and spoke to a guy at a thrift store who said it was on consignment. I stopped at the store after work on Friday and asked the clerk if I could plug it in and see if she fired up. The sticker on the Technics read: "Consignment $195" so I figured it must've been dropped off in working order. After tossing in an 8 track tape to test, I noticed that when switching programs it would skip 3&4 and go from 2 back to 1. I pretended I had no idea of what the issue was, which wasn't hard, and since it was closing time the guy asked me if I would take it for $50. Needless to say, I brought it home. It's in pretty decent cosmetic shape, with some nicks here and there in the wood. It is also missing the knob for the noise suppression function, but other than that all lights come on and the motor appears to be humming along. I do notice the VU meters moving a little. I also plan to take it in for complete restoration/service in the near future.

Below are some pictures of the RS-858US. Please excuse the jank phone camera.

 

[mtgc]

You have a very nice start with this Technics Unit.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Quadraphonic sound. In this forum you will find members who's expertise spans the entire gamut of original 4 channel sound reproduction.

If you have questions simply ask them and 99.9% of the time one or more of the members will have the information you need.

Again, welcome to this forum and Quadraphonic Sound Reproduction.

MTGC
Michael

 

[siwelk]

Thanks for the warm welcome.

I lost a bidding war last night on eBay for a Technics SA-6800x w/ remote.
Stupid eBay bidding system...I bid $350 max in the last 10 seconds and it processed my bid after the auction ended. I lost to $255.

I tried to message the seller hoping he would 'cave-in' for local pickup and $95 more, but no reply so far...



Additionally, I picked up some equipment from a CL ad: '1975 Stereo equip & cabinet'

Items picked up for $60 include:

Sanyo DC-2700k Quad receiver
Garrard 440c turntable - not working
Technics RS-263AUS cassette deck
2 yet-unknown old 70s era floor speakers, 2 newer RCA bookshelf speakers
O'Sullivan cabinet

Original owner so all manuals included. I know the receiver is pretty low-grade, but its super clean, functions solid, and will allow me to set-up a 'test' environment.
The Technics tape deck is siiiick. Old school. Pics & vids to come.

 

[mtgc]

Good luck on your acquisitions. Sounds like you made a good deal for the amount of materials you purchased.

I would check the belt and the idler wheel on the Garrard. As memory serves, this is a good turntable.

Again, good luck and keep us informed as to your progress.

MTGC
Michael

 

[8trackman]

hey siwelk! I am a big Technics fan- I will make your search a bit easier

first!- don't buy a sa-6800x wait for a sa-6700x to come around, it has a built in oscilloscope and when they do come up on ebay they aren't much more expensive then the sa-6800x

or just buy a sa-8500/8100 until a sa 6700x comes around- again the sa-8100/8500 arent that expensive

here is a list of desirable/unique/TOTL Technics items- that are specifically meant for Quad playback

Technics su-4600 pre amplifier with remote capability - reason- TOTL http://audio-database.com/TechnicsPanasonic/amp/su-4600-e.html

Technics sa-8500/8100 - biggest quad receiver (no remote capability)- http://www.vintagetechnics.info/receivers/sa8500x.htm

Technics sh-3434 - TOTL oscilloscope (with remote capability)- problem- rare as hens teeth https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?14028-MISC-Technics-SH-3434-Scope

Technics sh-3433 - oscilloscope (no remote capability, cant hook up much to it)

Technics sa 6700x - built in oscilloscope has remote capability, http://www.vintagetechnics.info/receivers/sa6700x.htm

Technics sh-400, sh-3538, - if you want an excuse to buy some extra Technics gear- these seem to be the TOTL Technics stand alone units for CD-4

http://audio-heritage.jp/TECHNICS/etc/sh-3580.html

http://www.stereomanuals.com/vintagetechnics/accessories/sh400.htm

you already have the 8 track so we can skip that....as for turntables I have a Technics SL-3200- Technics did build a special cd-4 cartridge, someone else will need to help you with that

my collection so far from above is a SU-4600, and an RS-DUS858, and the sh 1010 remote....I want more info about the Technics SH 3538 to see if its worth hunting down

and I have 4 Technics SB-X3'S

hope that helps

Colin

p.s how many quad-8's/ L.P's do you have?

 

[Doug G.]

Your Technics 8-track is stuck in 4 channel mode.

It does NOT want to play regular stereo tapes \:^)

Anyway, there is a flag hooked to a switch which goes into the extra groove on a quad tape or not on a stereo tape (which doesn't have the groove) and switches the deck into two or 4 channel mode.

When in 4 channel mode, it only switches from program 1 to 2 and back as there are only two programs on a 4 channel tape.

Welcome.

Doug

 

[Doug G.]

Yeah, the SH-400 is one of the coolest demodulators ever made with those bat-handle switches and the meter.

Also, the meter displays the adjustment connected to whichever one of the round control knobs is out. They push in-and-out.

And it supports both magnetic and semi-conductor cartridges.

And it has two of Lou Dorren's QSI demod. chips in it.

I got mine for 40 bucks on eBay a few years ago before everybody realized what they are.

BTW, I wonder what happened to demodulators and their availability on eBay. I looked yesterday and there wasn't a single one. There used to be about 4 or 5 on there at any one time.

Doug

 

[siwelk]

hey siwelk! I am a big Technics fan- I will make your search a bit easier

first!- don't buy a sa-6800x wait for a sa-6700x to come around, it has a built in oscilloscope and when they do come up on ebay they aren't much more expensive then the sa-6800x

or just buy a sa-8500/8100 until a sa 6700x comes around- again the sa-8100/8500 arent that expensive

here is a list of desirable/unique/TOTL Technics items- that are specifically meant for Quad playback

Technics su-4600 pre amplifier with remote capability - reason- TOTL http://audio-database.com/TechnicsPanasonic/amp/su-4600-e.html

Technics sa-8500/8100 - biggest quad receiver (no remote capability)- http://www.vintagetechnics.info/receivers/sa8500x.htm

Technics sh-3434 - TOTL oscilloscope (with remote capability)- problem- rare as hens teeth https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?14028-MISC-Technics-SH-3434-Scope

Technics sh-3433 - oscilloscope (no remote capability, cant hook up much to it)

Technics sa 6700x - built in oscilloscope has remote capability, http://www.vintagetechnics.info/receivers/sa6700x.htm

Technics sh-400, sh-3538, - if you want an excuse to buy some extra Technics gear- these seem to be the TOTL Technics stand alone units for CD-4

http://audio-heritage.jp/TECHNICS/etc/sh-3580.html

http://www.stereomanuals.com/vintagetechnics/accessories/sh400.htm

you already have the 8 track so we can skip that....as for turntables I have a Technics SL-3200- Technics did build a special cd-4 cartridge, someone else will need to help you with that

my collection so far from above is a SU-4600, and an RS-DUS858, and the sh 1010 remote....I want more info about the Technics SH 3538 to see if its worth hunting down

and I have 4 Technics SB-X3'S

hope that helps

Colin

p.s how many quad-8's/ L.P's do you have?

Actually, I was able to convince the eBay seller to sell me the 6800x for local pickup and $95 more. Sorry to whoever actually 'won' that auction, I see what I want and I make offers that can't be refused.
Sooo, I already have the 6800x in storage, which I'd rather have over the 6700 as I fully intend to pickup a SH-3433 in the future. I'm also really digging the remote for the 6800.

Thanks for the listing, I was aware of some but not all of those components. As for quad8s/LPs, I don't have any...yet. I have about a dozen regular 8 tracks and maybe 50-60 LPs. Nothing in quad format, and certainly nothing to write home about.

 

[siwelk]

hey siwelk! I am a big Technics fan- I will make your search a bit easier

first!- don't buy a sa-6800x wait for a sa-6700x to come around, it has a built in oscilloscope and when they do come up on ebay they aren't much more expensive then the sa-6800x

or just buy a sa-8500/8100 until a sa 6700x comes around- again the sa-8100/8500 arent that expensive

here is a list of desirable/unique/TOTL Technics items- that are specifically meant for Quad playback

Technics su-4600 pre amplifier with remote capability - reason- TOTL http://audio-database.com/TechnicsPanasonic/amp/su-4600-e.html

Technics sa-8500/8100 - biggest quad receiver (no remote capability)- http://www.vintagetechnics.info/receivers/sa8500x.htm

Technics sh-3434 - TOTL oscilloscope (with remote capability)- problem- rare as hens teeth https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?14028-MISC-Technics-SH-3434-Scope

Technics sh-3433 - oscilloscope (no remote capability, cant hook up much to it)

Technics sa 6700x - built in oscilloscope has remote capability, http://www.vintagetechnics.info/receivers/sa6700x.htm

Technics sh-400, sh-3538, - if you want an excuse to buy some extra Technics gear- these seem to be the TOTL Technics stand alone units for CD-4

http://audio-heritage.jp/TECHNICS/etc/sh-3580.html

http://www.stereomanuals.com/vintagetechnics/accessories/sh400.htm

you already have the 8 track so we can skip that....as for turntables I have a Technics SL-3200- Technics did build a special cd-4 cartridge, someone else will need to help you with that

my collection so far from above is a SU-4600, and an RS-DUS858, and the sh 1010 remote....I want more info about the Technics SH 3538 to see if its worth hunting down

and I have 4 Technics SB-X3'S

hope that helps

Colin

p.s how many quad-8's/ L.P's do you have?

Thanks for all the links to the Technics quad gear. I was only familiar with a little more than half or so.

I was actually able to finagle a deal with the seller to allow me to get the SA-6800x via local pickup, so that is actually already in storage...
I'd rather have the 6800 over the 6700 though, as I absolutely intend to pickup a SH-3433 in the future. Also, I'm really digging the remote that came with the 6800.

For turntables I was wanting to find a decent SL-1100A, I believe that was the one that came out around the time that Technics introduced their whole Quad line ('73-74).
In the meantime I did find a SL-1600MK2 on CL in an ad titled: Technics stereo system

The lady said she inherited the equipment from a family member that was in the Air Force and stationed in Japan. She couldn't get it hooked up so put it on CL for $150 for the lot.
I asked her how much for just the turntable and she said $50 so I plan on making the 3 hour round-trip to pick that up this weekend.

As for quad8s/LPs I don't currently own any...yet. I have about a dozen regular 8 tracks and maybe 50-60 LPs. Certainly nothing to write home about.

 

[siwelk]

How long until every reply I make doesn't have to be approved? This is hindering my flow.
I've attempted twice to 'reply with quote' to 8trackman but every post goes 'pending approval.'

I got to post this via the '+ Reply to Thread' button at the bottom of the thread.
Can anyone fill me in on the nuances of posting in this forum? Thanks.

Can anyone also fill me in on why my last successful post disappeared just now?
This forum is getting pretty frustrating considering I'm attempting to share things with the community.

 

[siwelk]

8trackman

Thanks for all the links to the various Technics quad gear. I was probably only aware of just over half of their entire line. Actually, I was able to finagle a deal with the seller for local pickup and an 'undisclosed amount' of additional legal tender to secure the SA-6800x. I'd rather have this model over the 6700 though, as I fully intend to pickup a SH-3433 sometime in the future. I also really dig the mint remote that was included as well and don't necessarily feel the need to search for an 8xxx.

As for turntables, I've had my eye on an SL-1100A. I believe this was the model that was used to advertise their CD-4 cartridge around the time Technics introduced their quad lineup ('73-'74). However, I did stumble upon a CL ad today titled: 'Technics Stereo System $150' It included an SL-1600MK2 as part of the lot. I called the lady and she said that she had inherited everything from a Air Force relative stationed in Japan. She said she didn't know how to hook it all up so she wanted it gone. Apparently it had been in boxes in storage for the last 10-15 years. She told me if I would come pick it up, I could have the turntable for $50. Soooo I'll be making the 2 hour round-trip to pick up the 1600 this weekend at least to test what LPs I have.

As for quad8s/LPs, I don't own any...yet. I only have about a dozen or so 8 tracks and 50-60 LPs. Certainly nothing to write home about but more often than not, 100% more than most 25 year olds.



Doug G.

Once I got everything hooked up to test, I was able to get the 8 tracks to play/switch all 4 programs. I'm not sure if I neglected to switch to 2-chan mode, "I'm new, I don't know!" :yikes

It has been working properly so far, but could definitely use a good, thorough cleaning.



Here's a pretty crappy Evo 4G video of me testing the RS-263AUS to Foreigner. Probably better mute your volume...

<object width="400" height="300" ><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="movie" value="http://www.facebook.com/v/10100653985734209" /><embed src="http://www.facebook.com/v/10100653985734209" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="400" height="300"></embed></object>

 

[John Svensson]

Most forums allow for brand new members first messages to be "moderated" to ensure that they are not spammers....I'm sure Jon will give you unfettered posting access shortly. Welcome and good luck in rounding up the Technics gear. John Svensson

 

[8trackman]

And it supports both magnetic and semi-conductor cartridges.

Doug

so should I just ignore the sh 3580? It just looks huge so I always assume big/heavy means better quality

you probably have answered this a billion times but whats the difference between a magnetic and semi-conductor cartridge? is Sansui's onboard CD-4 demodulators on their qrx series capable to decoding both? what cartridge is better? - oh and examples of cartridges are cool too if you have time

thanks Colin

p.s I dont know why they wont let you post Siwelk, it would be cool to hear about your dads collection.......I dont know who the mods are, hopefully they let you post soon

 

[Doug G.]

I definitely would not ignore the 3580. I'm not really familiar with it but, having googled it, it looks pretty versatile.

The photos on the web (why are there so many that are supposed to show something useful and you can't read the lettering?!) are poor but it looks like, instead of having a switch to choose the type of cartridge, you just plug the different types into different inputs. That would be handy if you wanted to switch between a magnetic cartridge and semi-conductor - no plugging and unplugging.

The difference between a magnetic and semi-conductor cartridge is the way they operate. A magnetic cartridge works with magnets and coils of wire to produce the signals to the demodulator. A semi-conductor (or strain gauge, as they are called) cartridge works by the stylus flexing elements that produce voltages when that is done. There are transistors involved to amplify the signals and so a DC voltage from the demodulator is needed to operate those semi-conductors.

A magnetic cartridge doesn't need that voltage, of course, so there is either a switch to select the type you are using or separate inputs.

Theoretically, the DC voltage could damage a magnetic cartridge by passing that voltage and current through the coils but I have accidently left my demodulator in semi-conductor mode and connected a magnetic without incident.

I don't believe the Sansui (or other manufacturer's, for that matter) equipment supports semi-conductor cartridges. Those were pretty much the domain of Panasonic/Technics.

One of the drawbacks of magnetic cartridges is the inductance of the coils which can cause phase errors in signal transfer and this can affect transcients like the first attack of a signal, particularly percussion and such. A semi-conductor cartridge doesn't have any coils so is not subject to this.

As to which cartridge type is better, that is a matter of individual taste, I guess, but I feel the my EPC-450C-II does have more immediacy than my magnetic cartridges.

It's all relative though, and magnetics can sound wonderful too.

The four main semi-conductor cartridges Panasonic produced were:

EPC-450C
EPC-450C-II
EPC-451C
EPC-460C

The first has a different physical configuration than the last three and the last tracks at a heavier VTF than the others, I believe. The styli of the last three are all interchangeable and I am using a 451C stylus with my 450C-II, as a matter of fact.

Some of the top magnetic quad cartridges are:

Pickering XUV 4500Q
Empire 4000D I, II, and III
Audio Technica AT20SLa, AT15Sa, AT14Sa, AT12S or Sa
Audio Technica AT440ML or MLa

There are other modern cartridges with line-contact styli that would probably work too.

Doug

 

[8trackman]

perfect, your answer covers everything! I wonder if the su-4600 is set up for a semi-conductor cartridge- it has some strange stuff regarding field dimension- unfortunately I am at school so I can't take a good look at it

so the semi-conductor cartridge only provides a small benefit in terms of sound quality? I know that the general rule regarding magnetic CD-4 cartridges is that you can play stereo/SQ/QS record just fine without having to change cartridges all the time, is this the case with the a semi-conductor cartridge, or do you have to take switch it out each time to play Stereo/QS/SQ?

hopefully that makes sense...all this studying (for school) is making me go crazy

thanks Colin

 

[Doug G.]

The improvement in sound quality with an SG is a personal judgement, of course, but there are some audiophiles who won't go back to anything else after hearing one.

I'm not quite that drastic because my XUV, 4000D, and others sound very good too.

You can play any type of record with an SG just like with any other quad cartridge. In fact, one of the features stressed in any CD-4 installation is that you can play anything with it without having to change anything around so it is completely compatible with regular stereo. The demodulators are even made so they automatically switch from four channel mode to two channel mode when the CD-4 carrier signal is not present.

A CD-4 cartridge, whether magnetic or SG, really is no different from any standard stereo cartridge except that it has a frequency response that extends up to about 40 - 50 kHz and maintains separation up there too.

The only reason to use the SG cartridge with a Shibata stylus just for CD-4 play might be to preserve the stylus (less wear) but that is the only reason.

I have a separate turntable for regular stereo records but the wear factor on the Shibata (or other similar CD-4 types) is the only reason.

Good luck with school!

Doug

 

[8trackman]

wow Siwelk you know where to find all the good stuff! let us know how your trip goes

p.s if she has a nice Technics cassette deck (brushed aluminum/wood) I would be willing to buy it off you.....I have inherited my dads cassette collection but I find 8 tracks far more fascinating so I havent tried to buy a cassette deck yet

and if she has a pair of SB-X3's I would be willing to buy those off you as well

Colin