Vertical Tracking Angle setup on Turntables

[J. PUPSTER]

Didn't find much here on the forum about this subject; and am curious as to how folks adjust for it.
And does it make much difference with different thicknesses of LPs- i.e. Dynaflex or 180-200 gram etc?

 

[markshan]

My arm is adjustable but I never fool with it. I certainly don't worry about it with different records. Think about the old days when they stacked six records on a spindle. How much difference would that be in VTA from the first record to the sixth?

 

[J. PUPSTER]

My arm is adjustable but I never fool with it. I certainly don't worry about it with different records. Think about the old days when they stacked six records on a spindle. How much difference would that be in VTA from the first record to the sixth.

I would think it would make some kind of difference if it was off by too much. All I did was put a level on an LP at the same angle as the tonearm and level the platter with an LP on it and then made sure the tonearm was also level. I mean, when you get down to the practically microscopic level of a stylus, wouldn't it be a huge difference inside the groove area?

 

[markshan]

Well, yes, there is an optimal angle but I don't know how to set that up. My point was that people used to play records with a 2" sweep in height. I don't know that I would be too concerned over the 1/8" (maybe) height difference between at 140 gram and a 180 gram record.

 

[windhoek]

I can't comment on VTA but this guy explains anti-skate like a boss in these two short videos.

 

[fredblue]

back when i was sodding about with CD-4 on a regular basis, i found VTA made a difference on some Quadradiscs.. how much of that was the stylus moving about and sitting differently in the groove from a previous owner and so taking a different maybe less worn angular path i don't know but i felt it made a difference to distortion, surface noise, etc.

when i was reading around the topic of TT adjustment and basic rules of thumb, it seemed to be the more exotic the stylus profile the greater the effect of VTA and that lowering it (rendering the arm "tail down") essentially made music bassier/darker and raising it ("tail up") made it brighter/more trebly-er-er.

there was also something about the older CD-4-capable carts i was running (AT15S) from i think pre-1974 having a different SRA from CD-4 carts after '74 (like 15 degrees to 20?)

i think VTA's said to be something that also affects VTF to a certain degree but i don't know to what extent and which way round it works, honestly i've forgotten a lot of this stuff in this dreadful bloody vinyl-less arse-end of the year what was left of my brain's gone to jelly!

 

[V96GLF]

I’m a bit of a cynic on this one, as I find it hard to believe that a fraction of a degree difference in VTA (which is what we’re talking about here) is going to make any audible difference. I make sure the arm is truly horizontal by eye, and leave it at that. Different record thickness isn’t going to make any visible or audible difference to the adjustment IMO.

 

[MidiMagic]

The VTA is actually the angle between the cantilever of the stylus and the surface of the record.

Usually installing the cartridge in the tonearm mount according to instructions provided by the cartridge maker is sufficient. Everything is designed for the optimum 15 degrees.

Another angle is the rake angle. This is the angle of the centerline of the stylus to the record surface in a front-back direction. The rake angle is usually 5 degrees with the tip slightly later in record rotation than the top of the stylus.

These angles do not matter very much when stereo or matrix records are being played. The only time they are critical is when CD-4 records are being played.

- If the rake angle is off, the carrier output is reduced because the top of the stylus does not align with the bottom of the stylus with the very short wavelengths above 30 KHz.

- If the vertical angle is off, it introduces harmonic distortion at carrier frequencies. This can produce distortion in the carrier signal or added noise. It also can cause a very tiny amount of harmonic distortion in the back channels of SQ and RM matrix records.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

The VTA is actually the angle between the cantilever of the stylus and the surface of the record.

Usually installing the cartridge in the tonearm mount according to instructions provided by the cartridge maker is sufficient. Everything is designed for the optimum 15 degrees.

Another angle is the rake angle. This is the angle of the centerline of the stylus to the record surface in a front-back direction. The rake angle is usually 5 degrees with the tip slightly later in record rotation than the top of the stylus.

These angles do not matter very much when stereo or matrix records are being played. The only time they are critical is when CD-4 records are being played.

- If the rake angle is off, the carrier output is reduced because the top of the stylus does not align with the bottom of the stylus with the very short wavelengths above 30 KHz.

- If the vertical angle is off, it introduces harmonic distortion at carrier frequencies. This can produce distortion in the carrier signal or added noise. It also can cause a very tiny amount of harmonic distortion in the back channels of SQ and RM matrix records.

Nice post there MM, and thanks for everyone's input!
However, I'm one of those crazy SOBs that like to "Trust- but Verify", or "The Proof is in the Pudding." I'm proposing a real world test on my Quad system, to test this out by making some (yet to be determined) level (angle) adjustments to the tonearm plus and minus from level; and actually try and hear any difference in the music. I also liked what Freddie said above about "the more exotic the stylus profile the greater the effect of VTA and that lowering it (rendering the arm "tail down") essentially made music bassier/darker and raising it ("tail up") made it brighter/more trebly-er-er. " I know @fredblue has lots of experience in Quad conversions and trust his opinion. I don't doubt that VTA & VTF is more critically important to getting a decent play off of CD-4 as opposed to the matrix formats. I feel fairly confident that I have my cart. aligned front to back after the Hi-Fi News test record and the painstaking effort it took, to get flying colors on their tests. It seems it worked well, to find the "Mode" of the best arc alignment as it traversed across the LP. Getting the tracking force correct was also important.

So I'll take my new Technics SL-1200 MK7 and AT-440MLb cart for some testing drives, with probably QS and SQ LPs and record them into my computer. I'll be looking for a section of music that is dynamic in instrument's used, mix, movement, discreteness/presence and imaging, like Front Phantom Center vocals etc. I'll record through my SMv2 flat with tonearm level, slightly angled down and then also up. If there is any difference in the sound I should be able to tell, just have to decide how much to adjust the up and down.

 

[V96GLF]

Should be an interesting experiment. Be sure to let us know the outcome!

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Uh-oh

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/zenith-angle-correction-final-set-frontier

 

[whatsmyname4]

I think there has been debate as to how much VTA affects playback. Rega's Roy Gandy has a fact sheet claiming it doesn't make a huge difference: Rega VTA Fact Sheet by Roy Gandy

I'm of the opinion that it can't hurt to have it set up properly, though I admittedly don't know how much it impacts playback.

I bought one of these gauges off of Amazon that helps take the guess work out of setting it up: https://www.amazon.com/VTA-Azimuth-...ild=1&keywords=vta+tool&qid=1613070212&sr=8-1

 

[Doug G.]

There are undoubtedly differences in frequency response with different VTA/SRA settings. However, the differences are WAY overstated in audio forums. Some people claim you will almost totally lose bass response if the cartridge is tilted forward the least little bit and almost totally lose high frequency response if the cartridge is tilted back the least little bit. I realize I am exaggerating a bit but it has gotten that bad.

That is all total nonsense, of course.

Doug

 

[J. PUPSTER]

My concerns are with the alignment of the stylus with the cart.; how much might they be off, as we're talking about microscopic tolerances magnified by the length of the tone-arm. What we may perceive as large variances in cartridge performance from one cart. to the next, might actually be a poorly installed stylus in the cart instead?

 

[DuncanS]

The forces on the stylus/LP contact area are quite 'high' as it is, so I would expect the vertical angle would have to be quite away off to have too detrimental or an audible effect, might cause more wear on the stylus/of the LP. Thinking about it I have very few perfectly flat LPs!

 

[kfbkfb]

http://www.pspatialaudio.com/vertical_tracking_error.htm^^^
Eight degrees misalignment is enough to cause a null at the subcarrier frequency itself


(took some searching to find this, it might be helpful)


Kirk Bayne