DTS Neo:6 anyone?

[Neil Palfreyman]

So, after getting a copy of Paul van Dyk's "Global" CD_DVD and really enjoying it, then bemoaning the lack of surround dance/trance in my music collection I thought I would try playing my CD of Chicane's "Behind the Sun" through Neo:6

Much to my amazement it sounds bloody good!

...which got me wondering: what are people's thoughts on synthesized multi-channel? Is it a dirty word/taboo subject on QQ or does it have a following?

 

[fredblue]

So, after getting a copy of Paul van Dyk's "Global" CD_DVD and really enjoying it, then bemoaning the lack of surround dance/trance in my music collection I thought I would try playing my CD of Chicane's "Behind the Sun" through Neo:6

Much to my amazement it sounds bloody good!

...which got me wondering: what are people's thoughts on synthesized multi-channel? Is it a dirty word/taboo subject on QQ or does it have a following?

on my main setup a fair bit of stuff works out nicely thru PLII Music, with centre channel shut off (or 1 notch away from being off gives good results on some things but more often than not the centre futzes with the stereo imaging of the front L&R) with "Panorama" On and "Dimension" left at 0.

if you look thru the fake quad threads here you'll see some good'uns, off the top of my head there's CDs I've messed around with by The O'Jays ("Survival" particularly good) Isleys ("Live It Up"), Stevie Wonder (New BDA of "Songs In The Key Of Life" is stunning), Lowell George's "Thanks I'll Eat It Here" (WOW!).

meantime, there are a few more electronic-y/dance-y/trance-y/beats-y/trippy (some "doof-doof-y"!) things in surround out there, including:

Schiller - Leben (SACD),
Thomilla - Freeze (SACD),
Paul Van Dyk - Reflections (SACD),
Tipper - Surrounded (DVD-A and DualDisc),
Groove Armada - Vertigo (SACD),
Groove Armada - Goodbye Country, Hello Nightclub (SACD),
Groove Armada - Lovebox (SACD),
Yellow Note - We Love Everybody, You're Next (DVD-A DualDisc),
Kinobe - Versebridgechorus? (SACD),
Hooverphonic - No More Sweet Music (2 x DTS DualDisc),
Jean Michel Jarre - Aero (DTS DVD-V & CD),
Mark Reeder - Five Point One (Dolby Dig DVD-V),
Mathew Adkins - Mondes Inconnus (DVD-A),
Beck - Guero (DVD-A),
Reanimation - Linkin' Park (DVD-A),
Slovo - Nommo (SACD),
Moloko - Statues (SACD),
Amon Tobin - Chaos Theory (DVD-A).

 

[DuncanS]

So, after getting a copy of Paul van Dyk's "Global" CD_DVD and really enjoying it, then bemoaning the lack of surround dance/trance in my music collection I thought I would try playing my CD of Chicane's "Behind the Sun" through Neo:6

Much to my amazement it sounds bloody good!

...which got me wondering: what are people's thoughts on synthesized multi-channel? Is it a dirty word/taboo subject on QQ or does it have a following?

In general I avoid it but sometimes curiosity gets hold and I recently listened to Floyd's "Meddle" (one of my favourites) in Synthesised Surround (I'd love a properly mixed surround version) which it didn't work for me as it came out rather muddled. I then followed it with Bats For Lashes "The Haunted Man", which did on a lot of the album with instruments seemingly placed well. A proper mix that fits the music is best, but its fun to try, and in most cases is no worse than the worst of the Silverline releases!

 

[fredblue]

ps. on my Yammy I prefer PLII Music to DTS Neo.. Neo's a bit too 'subtle' (and I believe the rears are mono..!?) there just doesn't seem to be as much fun processing going on.. plus it helps to get "OOPS" material (a lot of Stevie Wonder's 70's classic albums have out of phase stuff going on, for example) to conjur up some kooky effects!

of course, there's always the Sansui matrix boxes and the new Surround Master, which from everything I've read/heard really take synthesised surround to the next level, though I can't personally attest to their effects as I don't have any of those gizmos (yet!).

 

[DuncanS]

Lowell George's "Thanks I'll Eat It Here" I'd have never thought of trying that one, I'm working from home again tomorrow so I'll give it a go! I really must buy some of those Blu-ray releases like Stevie Wonder's SITKOL which I don't have in any form, so trying in Synth'd surround sounds good.

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

ps. on my Yammy I prefer PLII Music to DTS Neo.. Neo's a bit too 'subtle' (and I believe the rears are mono..!?) there just doesn't seem to be as much fun processing going on.. plus it helps to get "OOPS" material (a lot of Stevie Wonder's 70's classic albums have out of phase stuff going on, for example) to conjur up some kooky effects!

of course, there's always the Sansui matrix boxes and the new Surround Master, which from everything I've read/heard really take synthesised surround to the next level, though I can't personally attest to their effects as I don't have any of those gizmos (yet!).

My amp will do PLII as well. With a very quick listen I preferred Neo but I will give PLII a more serious test.

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

So, after getting a copy of Paul van Dyk's "Global" CD_DVD and really enjoying it, then bemoaning the lack of surround dance/trance in my music collection I thought I would try playing my CD of Chicane's "Behind the Sun" through Neo:6

Much to my amazement it sounds bloody good!

What mode are you using? I find Neo:6 Music to lack in the .1 channel. I played around with the different codecs for years and always come back to Neo:6 Cinema for 2-channel music listening. I've tried the different widths and always end up on either "5" for smaller satellite speakers and "10" if it's a larger, at least, dual 5 1/4" midbass driver speaker. Anything smaller and it's a listen where you think it sounds best session. Neo:6 Cinema is the closest to the natural 2-channel sound. I find the Dolby codecs sound too bright for my tastes.

 

[DuncanS]

I'm going to have to have a play around tomorrow using the Pioneers Matrix settings for Neo: X Music, Pro Logic IIx, (+THX variants of both, not sure what that'll do!) and the DTS-ES Matrix, I suspect I'll never have heard Lowell George like it before!

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

I recommend that as you're listening to each one, compare that with stereo mode.

 

[fredblue]

Lowell George's "Thanks I'll Eat It Here" I'd have never thought of trying that one, I'm working from home again tomorrow so I'll give it a go! I really must buy some of those Blu-ray releases like Stevie Wonder's SITKOL which I don't have in any form, so trying in Synth'd surround sounds good.

I don't know which mastering it is but the Lowell G CD I have is cat. no. 7599-26755-2.

set your AVR to:
PLII Music,
Panorama "On"
Switch the centre Off,
Don't bother with any notches in either direction on "Dimension" (it just skews the front to back steering, its not needed on this disc)..
and sit back in your sweet spot and enjoy a wonderful pseudo-surround presentation of a truly gorgeous album!

the Stevie & the Supertramp BD-A's are fab when PLII'd! especially the Stevie!

all only via HDMI of course, so if you're going analogue multiCh out, no can do.

oh and the Dolby True HD streams on these BD-A's seem to be more effective than the PCM & DTS-HD MA streams when synthesising thru PLII Music for some reason..!?

just do the little PLII Music, Panorama On, Centre Channel Off magic trick... and you're away in pseudo-Quad-Land..!!

 

[fredblue]

My amp will do PLII as well. With a very quick listen I preferred Neo but I will give PLII a more serious test.

PLII Cinema is nigh-on useless for music btw, it squeezes too much of the action into the centre, plus there's no parameters to fiddle with in that mode, it has to be PLII Music (makes sense, I guess! ) with the wraparound effect of Panorama, any other way and the results are a bit "meh".

 

[fredblue]

I'm going to have to have a play around tomorrow using the Pioneers Matrix settings for Neo: X Music, Pro Logic IIx, (+THX variants of both, not sure what that'll do!) and the DTS-ES Matrix, I suspect I'll never have heard Lowell George like it before!

you'll definitely not have heard him quite like this, no!

I so SO wish we'd got some Little Feat in 5.1 (a couple of their albums were announced as forthcoming surround DVD-A's from Warner.. but along with the Rod Stewart "A Night On The Town", Jean Luc Ponty "Cosmic Messenger" & Van Morrison "Moondance" albums also announced as 'Coming Soon' to DVD-Audio, they never appeared... very, very regrettably.).

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

PLII Cinema is nigh-on useless for music btw, it squeezes too much of the action into the centre, plus there's no parameters to fiddle with in that mode, it has to be PLII Music (makes sense, I guess! ) with the wraparound effect of Panorama, any other way and the results are a bit "meh".

No parameters? @: Not true.

Panorama is useless. To each their own.

 

[fredblue]

No parameters? @: Not true.

Panorama is useless. To each their own.

to each system their own too! PLII Movie (its called not PLII Cinema on my Yamaha, apologies) has NO SETTINGS whatsoever!!

again, with respect, on my system Panorama is extremely useFUL.

YMMV (I'm having to resort to that bloody acronym rather a lot round here lately!) @:

 

[fredblue]

I'll also add that implementation of these DSP effects varies from AVR manufacturer to manufacturer - and indeed from model to model.

PLII Music + Panorama on your system may well sound like a heap of shit!

On my RXV-2067, its a bloody marvel.

http://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/rx-v2067/?mode=model

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

I take that back. When I used to listen in DPLII, I found Panorama okay on some music but found that it sounds like the two front L&R channels are spread to the rear channels on most everything else. No disrespect. I just know what sounds good to my ears too.

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

PLII Music + Panorama on your system may well sound like a heap of shit!

I sure hope not! I have a top of the line Pioneer. I've heard DPLII sound the same on every system I previously owned. I've been pretty partial to anything DTS does for years now. Except for Neo:6 Music mode which is useless. I'd rather settle for DPLII...with Panorama.....believe it or not.

 

[fredblue]

I take that back. When I used to listen in DPLII, I found Panorama okay on some music but found that it sounds like the two front L&R channels are spread to the rear channels on most everything else. No disrespect. I just know what sounds good to my ears too.

it only steers some info from the 2-channels into the rears and gives that stuff more emphasis.. double stereo it is not

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

it only steers some info from the 2-channels into the rears and gives that stuff more emphasis.. double stereo it is not

True, but it sounds like it on a lot of stuff and that bothers me. If you like that kind of effect, more power to you.

 

[fredblue]

I sure hope not! I have a top of the line Pioneer. I've heard DPLII sound the same on every system I previously owned. I've been pretty partial to anything DTS does for years now. Except for Neo:6 Music mode which is useless. I'd rather settle for DPLII...with Panorama.....believe it or not.

implementation & features of these Dolby & DTS modes seem to be down to each AVR manufacturer and the more advanced the model the more advanced the implementation & feature set often appear to be.

I went from a cheap Denon to a Yammy costing 3 times as much (it was 2nd from top of their AVR line at the time) and the PLII etc is improved, as is everything else, just as one would expect/hope!

Neo 6 seems lifeless to me - and so useless, yes! ah-ha! you'd go for PLII + Pano too! great! now I don't feel (so) crazy!

ultimately I'd rather not have to do any of this PLII jazzapalooza at all but sadly not everything that I'd like in discrete surround exists in that presentation, so compromise city here we come!