DTS Neo:6 anyone?

[Jeffrey Michael]

...ultimately I'd rather not have to do any of this PLII jazzapalooza at all but sadly not everything that I'd like in discrete surround exists in that presentation, so compromise city here we come!

I guess, this is what you eventually succumb to if you don't like 2-channel music. :yikes

 

[fredblue]

I guess, this is what you eventually succumb to if you don't like 2-channel music. :yikes

haha! Very true!

as The Spinners (almost) sang..

"..Its a shame.. the way you mess around with your music..!."

 

[fredblue]

which takes me back to my original reply to Neil.

all this lot are worth checking out for the PVD-type music in genuine discrete surround before you resort to DTS Neo etc.
I can vouch for all being worth getting (except Lovebox, which I just have not been able to find for sensible money after years and years and years of trying!!!)...

Schiller - Leben (SACD),
Thomilla - Freeze (SACD),
Paul Van Dyk - Reflections (SACD),
Tipper - Surrounded (DVD-A and DualDisc),
Groove Armada - Vertigo (SACD),
Groove Armada - Goodbye Country, Hello Nightclub (SACD),
Groove Armada - Lovebox (SACD),
Yellow Note - We Love Everybody, You're Next (DVD-A DualDisc),
Kinobe - Versebridgechorus? (SACD),
Hooverphonic - No More Sweet Music (2 x DTS DualDisc),
Jean Michel Jarre - Aero (DTS DVD-V & CD),
Mark Reeder - Five Point One (Dolby Dig DVD-V),
Mathew Adkins - Mondes Inconnus (DVD-A),
Beck - Guero (DVD-A),
Reanimation - Linkin' Park (DVD-A),
Slovo - Nommo (SACD),
Moloko - Statues (SACD),
Amon Tobin - Chaos Theory (DVD-A).

implementation & features of these Dolby & DTS modes seem to be down to each AVR manufacturer and the more advanced the model the more advanced the implementation & feature set often appear to be.

I went from a cheap Denon to a Yammy costing 3 times as much (it was 2nd from top of their AVR line at the time) and the PLII etc is improved, as is everything else, just as one would expect/hope!

Neo 6 seems lifeless to me - and so useless, yes! ah-ha! you'd go for PLII + Pano too! great! now I don't feel (so) crazy!

ultimately I'd rather not have to do any of this PLII jazzapalooza at all but sadly not everything that I'd like in discrete surround exists in that presentation, so compromise city here we come!

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

What mode are you using? I find Neo:6 Music to lack in the .1 channel. I played around with the different codecs for years and always come back to Neo:6 Cinema for 2-channel music listening. I've tried the different widths and always end up on either "5" for smaller satellite speakers and "10" if it's a larger, at least, dual 5 1/4" midbass driver speaker. Anything smaller and it's a listen where you think it sounds best session. Neo:6 Cinema is the closest to the natural 2-channel sound. I find the Dolby codecs sound too bright for my tastes.

I was using Neo:6 Music and it sounded pretty good. Maybe lost a very small amount at the bottom end compared to stereo but not much. Cinema had way too much bottom end for my taste.

I'll certainly experiment some more - in fact my lack of replies last night was because I was listening to more albums! My amp doesn't seem to have much scope for control (I'll check the manual tonight) but seems to sounds pretty good with default settings.

I was wondering about the whole hdmi vs analogue thing as I normally use analogue because the DACs on my player are far superior to the amp. So I assume PLII and DTS Neo processing only works on the PCM 2 channel stream over digital? Is that correct?

 

[inquadwetrust]

which takes me back to my original reply to Neil.

all this lot are worth checking out for the PVD-type music in genuine discrete surround before you resort to DTS Neo etc.
I can vouch for all being worth getting (except Lovebox, which I just have not been able to find for sensible money after years and years and years of trying!!!)...

Schiller - Leben (SACD),
Thomilla - Freeze (SACD),
Paul Van Dyk - Reflections (SACD),
Tipper - Surrounded (DVD-A and DualDisc),
Groove Armada - Vertigo (SACD),
Groove Armada - Goodbye Country, Hello Nightclub (SACD),
Groove Armada - Lovebox (SACD),
Yellow Note - We Love Everybody, You're Next (DVD-A DualDisc),
Kinobe - Versebridgechorus? (SACD),
Hooverphonic - No More Sweet Music (2 x DTS DualDisc),
Jean Michel Jarre - Aero (DTS DVD-V & CD),
Mark Reeder - Five Point One (Dolby Dig DVD-V),
Mathew Adkins - Mondes Inconnus (DVD-A),
Beck - Guero (DVD-A),
Reanimation - Linkin' Park (DVD-A),
Slovo - Nommo (SACD),
Moloko - Statues (SACD),
Amon Tobin - Chaos Theory (DVD-A).

I'd add:

Lemon Jelly '64-'95 DVDV
Cornelius 5.1 DVDV
Cornelius Senssuround DVDV
Super Furry Animals Phantom Power DVDV
Orbital - The Altogether 5.1 DVDV
Bjork - Debut Dualdisc

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

Looks like I have the following control over PLII on my amp (no control at all for Neo)

Panorama mode - A Prologic II/IIx mode that extends the front Stereo image to the surround sound speakers for a more enveloping experience. This mode can be either On or Off.

Centre Width - Allows gradual adjustment of the centre image from being produced only by the Centre speaker (Setting 0) through levels of being spread between the centre channel and Left and Right speakers to finally being produced by the Front Left and Right speakers only (Phantom Centre, Setting 7). Useful in optimising the Front/Centre/Right soundfield for best integration of the 3 speakers. Best tuned by ear.

Dimension - Adjusts the soundfield to be gradually shifted from the front of the room to the back to suit taste, speaker positioning and size of room. Setting 0 has the image furthest forward, 6 furthest back.

Will have a bit of a play with these tonight, I think.

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

I was using Neo:6 Music and it sounded pretty good. Maybe lost a very small amount at the bottom end compared to stereo but not much. Cinema had way too much bottom end for my taste.

I find that the "Music" mode dramatically decreases in bass frequencies and "Cinema" mode sounds normal. Maybe, just your particular setup is why you're hearing differently. I've had different systems in different environments and my experience has always been the same.

I was wondering about the whole hdmi vs analogue thing as I normally use analogue because the DACs on my player are far superior to the amp. So I assume PLII and DTS Neo processing only works on the PCM 2 channel stream over digital? Is that correct?

Correct. They are "Matrix" encoding technologies for 2-channel. Though, there is a slight difference between the two on how many channels can be converted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Pro_Logic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS_Neo:6#DTS_Neo:6

 

[ssully]

I take that back. When I used to listen in DPLII, I found Panorama okay on some music but found that it sounds like the two front L&R channels are spread to the rear channels on most everything else. No disrespect. I just know what sounds good to my ears too.

Panorama is adjustable across a range of values from nothing to full-on. You've tried them all?

I use DPLIIx Music on all 2.0 music...going back to plain 2.0 almost never sounds 'right' any more.

 

[Robert van Diggele]

Listening to Riverside disc two of their album Rapid Eye Movement, mainly an instrumental set of songs, with some nice vocal tricks. Neo:6 in Music mode. This places the guitar solos in the fronts with clean rear channels. With clean I mean no strange reverb or sth.

The vocal tricks are sometimes placed in the rears as well, nice, although it s mostly drum, bass and synths. Not bad at all.

For info, I have Neo6 turned on in my Oppo player with analog out to my amps.

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

Listening to Riverside disc two of their album Rapid Eye Movement, mainly an instrumental set of songs, with some nice vocal tricks. Neo:6 in Music mode. This places the guitar solos in the fronts with clean rear channels. With clean I mean no strange reverb or sth.

The vocal tricks are sometimes placed in the rears as well, nice, although it s mostly drum, bass and synths. Not bad at all.

For info, I have Neo6 turned on in my Oppo player with analog out to my amps.

I have that album - will give it a go tonight (great album and band btw)

 

[Robert van Diggele]

Great band indeed. A few years ago I wrote to the band's website asking what their thoughts on 5.1 mixing is. One of the Piotrs wrote back that they see 5.1 more for live albums.

Might give this a second change and write them a follow up.

Thanks Neil for starting this thread. Ever since I had the Oppo I wanted to give this Neo:6 a try, but was busy with other things, so this is a good reminder!

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

Thanks Neil for starting this thread. Ever since I had the Oppo I wanted to give this Neo:6 a try, but was busy with other things, so this is a good reminder!

You're very welcome! That's exactly how I've been with my new player/amp and it was the post (started by Adam, I think) giving the heads-up on Paul van Dyk that indirectly inspired me to try it, so what goes around comes around I guess!

 

[fredblue]

I'd add:

Lemon Jelly '64-'95 DVDV
Cornelius 5.1 DVDV
Cornelius Senssuround DVDV
Super Furry Animals Phantom Power DVDV
Orbital - The Altogether 5.1 DVDV
Bjork - Debut Dualdisc

thanks IQWT!

There's another couple of sneaky little Super Furry Animals in surround;

SFA - Rings Around The World - 5.1 DTS DVD
SFA - Love Kraft - MultiCh SACD.

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

Panorama is adjustable across a range of values from nothing to full-on. You've tried them all?

You may want to re-read Post #26. Are you thinking of the other values...Dimension & Width?

I use DPLIIx Music on all 2.0 music...going back to plain 2.0 almost never sounds 'right' any more.

That's your problem.

 

[DKA]

After years of pissing on it, I actually did try a couple of these modes not long ago. While they were better than I thought in terms of soundfield and squeezing out some separation, the one-size-fits-all approach really gets old rather quickly. It feels more like you stumble upon an interesting match every few albums, and that not even every track on the album converts well with these modes. You're throwing the same algorithm at everything, and it clearly shows.

None of these receiver modes are any match whatsoever for what you can do with SPEC. If you're interested in turning 2.0 into 5.1, you simply can't compare the results - and it's a ton more fun as well.

 

[fredblue]

I have that album - will give it a go tonight (great album and band btw)

have you given Lowell George a go yet Neil?

 

[fredblue]

After years of pissing on it, I actually did try a couple of these modes not long ago. While they were better than I thought in terms of soundfield and squeezing out some separation, the one-size-fits-all approach really gets old rather quickly. It feels more like you stumble upon an interesting match every few albums, and that not even every track on the album converts well with these modes. You're throwing the same algorithm at everything, and it clearly shows.

None of these receiver modes are any match whatsoever for what you can do with SPEC. If you're interested in turning 2.0 into 5.1, you simply can't compare the results - and it's a ton more fun as well.

you're the SPEC Supremo, DKA! you're better qualified than just about anyone to comment!

these modes don't work great for every track on everything.. very true.. but every now and again you get some very pleasant surprises and there's the odd entire album that really works out! (most of Stevie W's 70's stuff, some Isleys, some O'Jays, the Lowell George.. they really "click"!) still your SITKOL is a work of art in itself, though the BD-A thru PLII is about as good as I've ever heard any of these AVR modes do their thing and definitely worth a shot!

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

have you given Lowell George a go yet Neil?

No, not yet - too much music, too little time!

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

After years of pissing on it, I actually did try a couple of these modes not long ago. While they were better than I thought in terms of soundfield and squeezing out some separation, the one-size-fits-all approach really gets old rather quickly. It feels more like you stumble upon an interesting match every few albums, and that not even every track on the album converts well with these modes. You're throwing the same algorithm at everything, and it clearly shows.

I agree. Panorama on with DPLII sounds exactly like it states what it does, "extends the front Stereo image to the surround sound speakers for a more enveloping experience". This is precisely why I do not like it. Sounds like too much of the front channels are playing behind, or to the side of me. Others may like this unnatural effect but not me.

 

[fredblue]

You're very welcome! That's exactly how I've been with my new player/amp and it was the post (started by Adam, I think) giving the heads-up on Paul van Dyk that indirectly inspired me to try it, so what goes around comes around I guess!

mea culpa!

you would not believe what the next "surprise" DVD-V surround winners I've got up my sleeve are! @:

talk about from the sublime to the ridiculous..!! (you could barely get two more different artists! all will be revealed once I've given them a closer listen.. but so far, so surround-y good!).