New Surround Master coming! Its a jump to the left and a step to the right

[The56Kid]

Thanks for the prompt responses, guys. Since I don't own any legacy QS/SQ material, I'd probably have to demo an SM V2 in my system to determine if the surround magic it performs on stereo sources is worth the price of admission.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Yes, but "faux" is too disparaging a term for the surround extraction this unit achieves. It is much more sophisticated than than DPLII.

Yes, it is that as well.

(Sorry Sonik - looks as though my answer overlapped with yours!)

Great minds think alike. Or at least ours do.

I am ill at ease over terms like "faux Multi-Channel" or "fake Surround". In a common stereo recording there is a wealth of amplitude/phase relationship that represents both width and depth. The way this is created by multi-track recording or classic simple mic live recording is so very compatible with QS decoding. Some people say stereo should only be listened as stereo as that is how it was created. Recording engineers do their best with various tricks to create both width & depth with stereo but that can be best appreciated when it is actually decoded with depth and width.

Certainly there are a number of ways to do this rather poorly and that's what most peoples experience is. But when you consider the excellent results from those doing up mixing on their PC's, another example, SPEC WEB, the results are amazing.

In real time the best I've heard is Sansui QS and Fosgate Tate101. DPL II is not bad when set to QS parameters no where as lively as the other two. There are so may here in whose ears I trust, that I expect the SM V2 to take a big step up from my legacy faves.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Thanks for the prompt responses, guys. Since I don't own any legacy QS/SQ material, I'd probably have to demo an SM V2 in my system to determine if the surround magic it performs on stereo sources is worth the price of admission.

Yup sometimes it's hard to take a leap of faith when you really want to know before hand if it's the right purchase. I don't know where you live but I'm in the KC, MO area & you are most welcome to drop by & we'll move some air after I get the new SM.

Alternatly there is the return/repair policy at Involve Audio. It does not spell it out as clearly as most American on line retailers do. Involve simple links you to info about Australian consumer rights.
Return Policy

Maybe Chucky could clarify?

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Great minds think alike. Or at least ours do.

I am ill at ease over terms like "faux Multi-Channel" or "fake Surround". In a common stereo recording there is a wealth of amplitude/phase relationship that represents both width and depth. The way this is created by multi-track recording or classic simple mic live recording is so very compatible with QS decoding. Some people say stereo should only be listened as stereo as that is how it was created. Recording engineers do their best with various tricks to create both width & depth with stereo but that can be best appreciated when it is actually decoded with depth and width.

Certainly there are a number of ways to do this rather poorly and that's what most peoples experience is. But when you consider the excellent results from those doing up mixing on their PC's, another example, SPEC WEB, the results are amazing.

In real time the best I've heard is Sansui QS and Fosgate Tate101. DPL II is not bad when set to QS parameters no where as lively as the other two. There are so may here in whose ears I trust, that I expect the SM V2 to take a big step up from my legacy faves.

I've only heard some digital recordings of a similar device called a Sansui- QSD-1 of Alan Parsons I Robot and it sounded amazingly discrete to me. The first Surround Master (if I'm not mistaken also used a similar Tri-band decode.) Here's an old post by the late and great Cai Campbell - and look at the price waaaay back in 2002 for a QSD-1:
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/sansui-qsd-1.1570/#post-9290

 

[GOS]

It is hard to take a leap of faith, especially if all you want to buy it for is to take 2 channel stereo and utilize SM2 with the hopes that it outputs something that is way above and beyond any other AVR standard simulated surround.

And, on top of it all, for us rookies (speaking for myself) who are used to very straight forward connections between our blu-rays, cable boxes, turntables and laptops...to our AVR's (while fully understanding what we can expect in terms of audio playback)......we just do not understand (fully) whether our current equipment can easily absorb the SM2 without any heartache.....or confusion.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

I've only heard some digital recordings of a similar device called a Sansui- QSD-1 of Alan Parsons I Robot and it sounded amazingly discrete to me. The first Surround Master (if I'm not mistaken also used a similar Tri-band decode.) Here's an old post by the late and great Cai Campbell - and look at the price waaaay back in 2002 for a QSD-1:
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/sansui-qsd-1.1570/#post-9290

Sorry, had to get the right post link in.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

It is hard to take a leap of faith, especially if all you want to buy it for is to take 2 channel stereo and utilize SM2 with the hopes that it outputs something that is way above and beyond any other AVR standard simulated surround.

And, on top of it all, for us rookies (speaking for myself) who are used to very straight forward connections between our blu-rays, cable boxes, turntables and laptops...to our AVR's (while fully understanding what we can expect in terms of audio playback)......we just do not understand (fully) whether our current equipment can easily absorb the SM2 without any heartache.....or confusion.

I guess time will tell on your first statement; but as to you're second, it's easy to give Chucky your list of equipment with help in set-up (hopefully I'm not speaking out of turn here, but he's already mentioned as such here.)

 

[Steve Schoultz]

It is hard to take a leap of faith, especially if all you want to buy it for is to take 2 channel stereo and utilize SM2 with the hopes that it outputs something that is way above and beyond any other AVR standard simulated surround.

And, on top of it all, for us rookies (speaking for myself) who are used to very straight forward connections between our blu-rays, cable boxes, turntables and laptops...to our AVR's (while fully understanding what we can expect in terms of audio playback)......we just do not understand (fully) whether our current equipment can easily absorb the SM2 without any heartache.....or confusion.

Hey GOS,
I believe you use some type of media server for music playback. If so, you probably only have a hdmi and USB outputs. In that case you need a DAC between the media server to perform the digital to analog conversion for an analog signal for the SM2 analog input. The analog outputs from the SM2 would connect to the analog inputs of your receiver. I use my Oppo 205 USB DAC between my music server and SM1. It really sounds great for many recordings. Much better than PLII. Alternatively if you are playing stereo CDs/SACD/DVD-Audio from your disc player and the disc has analog (RCA) outputs, then you can connect directly into the SM2. Does this make sense?

 

[The56Kid]

It is hard to take a leap of faith, especially if all you want to buy it for is to take 2 channel stereo and utilize SM2 with the hopes that it outputs something that is way above and beyond any other AVR standard simulated surround.

And, on top of it all, for us rookies (speaking for myself) who are used to very straight forward connections between our blu-rays, cable boxes, turntables and laptops...to our AVR's (while fully understanding what we can expect in terms of audio playback)......we just do not understand (fully) whether our current equipment can easily absorb the SM2 without any heartache.....or confusion.

You're correct on both counts as far as I'm concerned, Gene. Why don't you buy one and I'll drive over to Illinois to check it out?

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Hey GOS,
I believe you use some type of media server for music playback. If so, you probably only have a hdmi and USB outputs. In that case you need a DAC between the media server to perform the digital to analog conversion for an analog signal for the SM2 analog input. The analog outputs from the SM2 would connect to the analog inputs of your receiver. I use my Oppo 205 USB DAC between my music server and SM1. It really sounds great for many recordings. Much better than PLII. Alternatively if you are playing stereo CDs/SACD/DVD-Audio from your disc player and the disc has analog (RCA) outputs, then you can connect directly into the SM2. Does this make sense?

Gene has a Denon AVR-X440H reciever. It has analog 2 ch outputs & multiple 2 ch analog inputs but it does not a analog 4/6 ch analog input, only HDMI. There is no way to plug the SM outputs into the Denon.

 

[GOS]

Hey GOS,
I believe you use some type of media server for music playback. If so, you probably only have a hdmi and USB outputs. In that case you need a DAC between the media server to perform the digital to analog conversion for an analog signal for the SM2 analog input. The analog outputs from the SM2 would connect to the analog inputs of your receiver. I use my Oppo 205 USB DAC between my music server and SM1. It really sounds great for many recordings. Much better than PLII. Alternatively if you are playing stereo CDs/SACD/DVD-Audio from your disc player and the disc has analog (RCA) outputs, then you can connect directly into the SM2. Does this make sense?

Steve - first, thanks for trying to pound this into my semi-thick skull. So, I do have all my music on a NAS. But, I'm using my PC (via Foobar) to access my NAS and play my music. That's pretty much it. That all said - I would NOT be against, putting that same music on an external drive, plugged into my Oppo and go that route.

What would you say, about those 2 scenarios?
Have I said that I have some money set aside for this beast? I do...I do...but, it needs to work without much further expense.

 

[GOS]

Gene has a Denon AVR-X440H reciever. It has analog 2 ch outputs & multiple 2 ch analog inputs but it does not a analog 4/6 ch analog input, only HDMI. There is no way to plug the SM outputs into the Denon.

Yep. I know we've talked. Only, I find all this talk fairly confusing. For some reason.

 

[GOS]

I do understand that all this talk becomes monotonous.....for those that are versed on the topic. But, many are not and it just seems like a mental block.

If you want to talk about horizontal resistance or single gene resistance, I'm your man...but all this....

 

[Steve Schoultz]

Gene has a Denon AVR-X440H reciever. It has analog 2 ch outputs & multiple 2 ch analog inputs but it does not a analog 4/6 ch analog input, only HDMI. There is no way to plug the SM outputs into the Denon.

If he has the Denon AVR-4400H he has multichannel analog I/O. Then he can connect the SM2 as I suggested.

 

[Steve Schoultz]

Steve - first, thanks for trying to pound this into my semi-thick skull. So, I do have all my music on a NAS. But, I'm using my PC (via Foobar) to access my NAS and play my music. That's pretty much it. That all said - I would NOT be against, putting that same music on an external drive, plugged into my Oppo and go that route.

What would you say, about those 2 scenarios?
Have I said that I have some money set aside for this beast? I do...I do...but, it needs to work without much further expense.

Which Oppo do you have?

 

[GOS]

Which Oppo do you have?

I have the 103 and also 203.

 

[Steve Schoultz]

No problem. You’ve helped me in the past. Well I believe it would work for the configuration you described. You would just connect the two connector RCA cable to the FL and FR outputs on the Oppo. Then connect the other end of the two connector RCA cable to the input of the SM2. You would need 3 pairs of RCA cables to hook up between the 5.1 output of the SM2 to the 5.1 inputs on your receiver. I would suggest you try connecting directly from your Oppo FL/FR and SW to your receiver first and see how you like the sound. In this configuration you are using the DAC in the Oppo instead of the receiver DAC. When you use HDMI you are using the DAC in your receiver. That way you compare the quality of the Oppo DAC vs the Denon DAC. The Oppo 205 has a higher quality DAC than the 203

 

[J. PUPSTER]

I have the 103 and also 203.

I removed this post, as Sonik Wiz pointed out they were outs, not ins

 

[Sonik Wiz]

I found a pic of what I believe is the back of your AVR (but it had an X in the name?); if this is correct, I highlighted the inputs I believe should be used from either an Oppo going direct to the AVR or even believe you can go into the highlighted AVR inputs. I highly recommend you check with Chuck or someone at Involve to be certain.

View attachment 38705

Looks like what you have high lighted is labled as pre out, not in.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Looks like what you have high lighted is labled as pre out, not in.

So, if these are only outs and not ins, it doesn't look like his receiver has the option for analog multi-channel ins, is that what you see?