Frogmort
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Voodoo Child (Slight Return), the last song on the album, sent me through the space/time continuum. 
In a good way. 
In a good way. 
HiRez Poll Jimi Hendrix Experience, The - ELECTRIC LADYLAND [Blu-Ray Audio]
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I have voted a conservative 10, it is the only vote I can I can give for an experience that gives me a jokers grin from beginning to end. I have been experienced!
If the electric bass is mixed to four corner channels (I haven't listened yet), and the system is bass managed (as most are) the low bass is really coming from the subwoofer(s) (and should be nonlocalizable to any corner). What one is hearing from the four corners then, are the mid and upper bass tones (and overtones) of electric bass.
Interesting. AAtW always sounded distinct from the rest of the album to me (not worse or better fidelity, just different...maybe more 'commercial' or polished-sounding, thanks to the reverb?) I wonder if there was something distinctive about its recording session too (I haven't watched the 'making of' video)
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A strong 8, initially, but upon thinking about it changed to a 9. Sounds very good. I feel like I have been all over the map on this one. But 9 feels right.
ifthenwhy
Member
This 5.1 is an absolute monster and is a worthy addition to any surround library. The mix is playful, aggressive and does much to clear up the murkiness of Hendrix that has always bothered me.
Also, for what it's worth, I've always disliked Hendrix. And yet, somehow, I keep coming back to this mix. I keep wanting to hear it more. For the first time, a 5.1 statement is changing my mind about an artists actual work. Has this happened to anyone else?
It's a solid 9.
And, holy shit, it been a good year for classic rock 5.1. "The White Album", Hendrix "Experience", Lennon's "Imagine" and Clearmountian's phenomenal "Big Pink" reworking.
I am rolling like a pig in the proverbial shit.
Also, for what it's worth, I've always disliked Hendrix. And yet, somehow, I keep coming back to this mix. I keep wanting to hear it more. For the first time, a 5.1 statement is changing my mind about an artists actual work. Has this happened to anyone else?
It's a solid 9.
And, holy shit, it been a good year for classic rock 5.1. "The White Album", Hendrix "Experience", Lennon's "Imagine" and Clearmountian's phenomenal "Big Pink" reworking.
I am rolling like a pig in the proverbial shit.
I too find this to be the clearest I've ever heard this material. Besides "Smash Hits" I've never been much of a Hendrix fan. This mix is engaging, if a bit unorthodox at times (AAtW ventures in to the bizarre).
I love to see this level of excitement
...and I feel the same way...and for me I would add the Guns N Roses release...not just because I love how it sounds and the content...but that Elliot Schiener was at the controls on a title like this...it's evidence that he WOULD do a major album if approached...and the Dutton releases and the excellent and very intense Bitches Brew quad release....and perhaps some more "piggies" before the year ends with Pink Floyd...I finally had time to listen to the whole 5.1. mix yesterday.
A few caveats to mention first; my 5.1. setup is in my combined man-cave/guitar room/music room/gym. I was listening to the album while doing a work-out so I wasn't able to devote full attention to it. This means I also wasn't in the absolute sweetspot all of the time, and I also think my system could use a little calibration and tweaking. I only got into this a few months ago, but have been loving every second of listening in surround. At its best, it can be an immersive experience that takes the music to a new dimension. So my first and foremost criteria when judging a surround mix is this; does it transport me and immerse me?
The answer in this case is yes, at least some of the time...
I will say that in general, I think Kramer has done a good job. There was some hesitation when this was first announced due to Kramer's lack of experience in mixing for 5.1. There are mixes out there which are an outright fiasco (can't say I have hear any, but I don't have that many surround records yet), but this isn't one of them. Generally, it provides good separation with discrete elements in each speaker, working together to create an immersive whole. But there is some song to song variation in how successful it is at making the whole thing hold together, and also to how well it immerses you.
To be totally fair to Kramer, we have to remember that anyone hearing this, is going to compare it to...
- the stereo mix of one of the greatest albums of all time, that most listeners are going to be intimately familiar with. I know that I, for one, would be able to immediately pick out any different/new elements in a mix, compared to the stereo mix which I have probably heard close to 1000 times since I first heard it about 25 years ago.
- any new approaches to the mix, be it in instrument and voice balance/placing/tonality/fades/effects, will immediately feel unfamiliar and strange.
- the stereo mix is, IMHO, one of the greatest stereo mixes of all time. It is such a complex record, and the stereo mix manages the admirable task of adding to the complexity, while still maintaining a very strong, fundamental sound and punch, uniting and even enhancing on all the elements it is made up of.
So with all that out of the way, in my opinion this mix frequently succeeds incredibly well, but there are some elements and some songs that are less successful. Let's do it song by song:
1)...And the Gods made Love: Nice swirling sounds as expected, like stereo only enhanced to work in 360 degrees. Works very well.
2)Have You Ever Been (to Electric Ladyland): love this mix. The stereo is a touch murky and it never really gelled with me as an opening number. The surround mix opens it up and the backing vocals are really enhanced, making it a warmer, more welcoming opening track. The lead guitar parts don't stand out quite as well as on the stereo.
3)Crosstown Traffic: this is the only dud on the album. I suppose it must have something to do with being on 4 track. The basic backing track sounds exactly like the stereo mix, but mostly reproduced in the rears. Where you expect the guitar and/or whole mix to come screeching across town from the rear to the front, from left to right, there's just some weird tremulating thing going on in the rears. Not completely out of place, but very underwhelming. The whole thing seems to lack some punch compared to stereo.
4) Voodoo Chile: love this. It works extremely well in surround, being able to reproduce the room atmosphere in even greater detail. Bass is about 1000 times better than on the stereo mix. I wish Jimi's voice had been put in the center front though, then maybe switch it to the rears when he drops out and goes to talk to the hangers-on/studio crowd.
5) Little Miss Strange: Nice enough...like the basic song itself, it's not one of the highlights on the album, but strong enough on its own.
6) Long Hot Summer Night: this is one track that frustrates me. It starts out really nice, and promises to be an excellent surround experience. There are so many layered guitars and other elements on this that it could lend itself particularly well to a surround mix. But as the song goes on, it seems to lack direction or something. Maybe this is because we are so used to the stereo mix, which emphasises certain guitar fills over others. In the surround mix, they are more "equal", which is interesting for a while. But the song seems to lose some punch and direction, and you end up feeling that Kramer didn't really know where he wanted to go. Creating a new mix is going to be guesswork in any case with Jimi not around to supervise it, but this is one track where I can't help but feel that Jimi would have wanted it a little different.
7) Come On: Not too much to say about this other than you can hear some parts more clearly than before, and the room feeling comes across better.
8) Gypsy Eyes: I had high hopes for the surround mix of this, and I think it delivers. This is also a somewhat layered song, but not as dense as Long Hot Summer Night, and it works so much better for it. Some people have mentioned that the flanging effects are a little different than the stereo, which is true, but it doesn't bug me.
9) Burning of the Midnight Lamp: this stays very close to the stereo mix in spirit, but with "enhanced" flanging, better separation of the voices and an overall more psychedelic swirl. Thumbs up from me.
10) Rainy Day, Dream Away: Jimi's guitar sounds a little distant, it's more in your face in the stereo mix. I think that takes a little away from the overall score, but otherwise it's a nice enough surround mix. It might be my setup needs to better calibrated and my listening position adjusted though, so take it with a grain of salt.
11) 1983... (A Merman I Should Turn to Be) and
12) Moon, Turn the Tides Gently, Gently Away: This is the one we were all waiting for, right? Let me tell you, Kramer knocked this one right out of the park. It doesn't obliviate the original stereo mix, that is still a beautiful sound painting in its own right. But as an alternate view, this one is IMHO extremely succesful. Look no further than the middle instrumental section. I almost broke into a cold sweat (well, I was sweating already in my workout...) when Kramer submerges us all completely. Seriously, I had hallucinations of starfish and giant foams, I could see Neptune and mermaids and hear the cheers from Atlantis. It's a whole new experience. So what if the echoes on "Beyond the will of God, GOD, GOD!!" aren't as loud and distorted as the stereo mix? It didn't bug me, anyway.
13) Still Raining Still Dreaming: see #10
14) House Burning Down: this is another of the slightly frustrating ones. The surround experience definitely enhances some aspects over the stereo; bass and drums come through more clearly, and the psychedelic flanging effects are enhanced by being able to swirl around in 360 degrees. But the sound of the flanging is a little cleaner and the guitars sound a little weaker. In the stereo mix, the guitars sound explosive and desperate and Jimi really conjures up flames with his guitar. In the surround mix, the basic elements are there, but they don't jump out at you in the same way. I think basically the guitars should have been more prominent/louder/more dramatic, but here they sound a little more subdued/cleaner. It works very well during the verses, but in the intro and outro, where you want the climax to happen, it becomes a little anti-climactic by comparison. I think I need to hear this more times and adjust my setup to give a completely fair assessment.
15) All Along the Watchtower: can't really remember the details too well.Like it well enough.
16) Voodoo Child (Slight Return): effective and immersive surround mix, and retained the punch of the stereo well I think. One possibly annoying element is some added flanging which wasn't on the original. I'm not sure I think that was neeeded, the panning and delays are enough by their own, but it was OK. Sounded a bit more like Robin Trower's use of flanging IMO.
So to sum it up:
Good: my most anticipated surround songs all generally work very well. Bass is generally excellent and at times almost revelatory! 1983 middle section: WOW!
Bad: a bit inconsistent. Crosstown Traffic weak. Some songs lose a bit of punch compared to stereo.
Total score 8/10.
A few caveats to mention first; my 5.1. setup is in my combined man-cave/guitar room/music room/gym. I was listening to the album while doing a work-out so I wasn't able to devote full attention to it. This means I also wasn't in the absolute sweetspot all of the time, and I also think my system could use a little calibration and tweaking. I only got into this a few months ago, but have been loving every second of listening in surround. At its best, it can be an immersive experience that takes the music to a new dimension. So my first and foremost criteria when judging a surround mix is this; does it transport me and immerse me?
The answer in this case is yes, at least some of the time...
I will say that in general, I think Kramer has done a good job. There was some hesitation when this was first announced due to Kramer's lack of experience in mixing for 5.1. There are mixes out there which are an outright fiasco (can't say I have hear any, but I don't have that many surround records yet), but this isn't one of them. Generally, it provides good separation with discrete elements in each speaker, working together to create an immersive whole. But there is some song to song variation in how successful it is at making the whole thing hold together, and also to how well it immerses you.
To be totally fair to Kramer, we have to remember that anyone hearing this, is going to compare it to...
- the stereo mix of one of the greatest albums of all time, that most listeners are going to be intimately familiar with. I know that I, for one, would be able to immediately pick out any different/new elements in a mix, compared to the stereo mix which I have probably heard close to 1000 times since I first heard it about 25 years ago.
- any new approaches to the mix, be it in instrument and voice balance/placing/tonality/fades/effects, will immediately feel unfamiliar and strange.
- the stereo mix is, IMHO, one of the greatest stereo mixes of all time. It is such a complex record, and the stereo mix manages the admirable task of adding to the complexity, while still maintaining a very strong, fundamental sound and punch, uniting and even enhancing on all the elements it is made up of.
So with all that out of the way, in my opinion this mix frequently succeeds incredibly well, but there are some elements and some songs that are less successful. Let's do it song by song:
1)...And the Gods made Love: Nice swirling sounds as expected, like stereo only enhanced to work in 360 degrees. Works very well.
2)Have You Ever Been (to Electric Ladyland): love this mix. The stereo is a touch murky and it never really gelled with me as an opening number. The surround mix opens it up and the backing vocals are really enhanced, making it a warmer, more welcoming opening track. The lead guitar parts don't stand out quite as well as on the stereo.
3)Crosstown Traffic: this is the only dud on the album. I suppose it must have something to do with being on 4 track. The basic backing track sounds exactly like the stereo mix, but mostly reproduced in the rears. Where you expect the guitar and/or whole mix to come screeching across town from the rear to the front, from left to right, there's just some weird tremulating thing going on in the rears. Not completely out of place, but very underwhelming. The whole thing seems to lack some punch compared to stereo.
4) Voodoo Chile: love this. It works extremely well in surround, being able to reproduce the room atmosphere in even greater detail. Bass is about 1000 times better than on the stereo mix. I wish Jimi's voice had been put in the center front though, then maybe switch it to the rears when he drops out and goes to talk to the hangers-on/studio crowd.
5) Little Miss Strange: Nice enough...like the basic song itself, it's not one of the highlights on the album, but strong enough on its own.
6) Long Hot Summer Night: this is one track that frustrates me. It starts out really nice, and promises to be an excellent surround experience. There are so many layered guitars and other elements on this that it could lend itself particularly well to a surround mix. But as the song goes on, it seems to lack direction or something. Maybe this is because we are so used to the stereo mix, which emphasises certain guitar fills over others. In the surround mix, they are more "equal", which is interesting for a while. But the song seems to lose some punch and direction, and you end up feeling that Kramer didn't really know where he wanted to go. Creating a new mix is going to be guesswork in any case with Jimi not around to supervise it, but this is one track where I can't help but feel that Jimi would have wanted it a little different.
7) Come On: Not too much to say about this other than you can hear some parts more clearly than before, and the room feeling comes across better.
8) Gypsy Eyes: I had high hopes for the surround mix of this, and I think it delivers. This is also a somewhat layered song, but not as dense as Long Hot Summer Night, and it works so much better for it. Some people have mentioned that the flanging effects are a little different than the stereo, which is true, but it doesn't bug me.
9) Burning of the Midnight Lamp: this stays very close to the stereo mix in spirit, but with "enhanced" flanging, better separation of the voices and an overall more psychedelic swirl. Thumbs up from me.
10) Rainy Day, Dream Away: Jimi's guitar sounds a little distant, it's more in your face in the stereo mix. I think that takes a little away from the overall score, but otherwise it's a nice enough surround mix. It might be my setup needs to better calibrated and my listening position adjusted though, so take it with a grain of salt.
11) 1983... (A Merman I Should Turn to Be) and
12) Moon, Turn the Tides Gently, Gently Away: This is the one we were all waiting for, right? Let me tell you, Kramer knocked this one right out of the park. It doesn't obliviate the original stereo mix, that is still a beautiful sound painting in its own right. But as an alternate view, this one is IMHO extremely succesful. Look no further than the middle instrumental section. I almost broke into a cold sweat (well, I was sweating already in my workout...) when Kramer submerges us all completely. Seriously, I had hallucinations of starfish and giant foams, I could see Neptune and mermaids and hear the cheers from Atlantis. It's a whole new experience. So what if the echoes on "Beyond the will of God, GOD, GOD!!" aren't as loud and distorted as the stereo mix? It didn't bug me, anyway.
13) Still Raining Still Dreaming: see #10
14) House Burning Down: this is another of the slightly frustrating ones. The surround experience definitely enhances some aspects over the stereo; bass and drums come through more clearly, and the psychedelic flanging effects are enhanced by being able to swirl around in 360 degrees. But the sound of the flanging is a little cleaner and the guitars sound a little weaker. In the stereo mix, the guitars sound explosive and desperate and Jimi really conjures up flames with his guitar. In the surround mix, the basic elements are there, but they don't jump out at you in the same way. I think basically the guitars should have been more prominent/louder/more dramatic, but here they sound a little more subdued/cleaner. It works very well during the verses, but in the intro and outro, where you want the climax to happen, it becomes a little anti-climactic by comparison. I think I need to hear this more times and adjust my setup to give a completely fair assessment.
15) All Along the Watchtower: can't really remember the details too well.Like it well enough.
16) Voodoo Child (Slight Return): effective and immersive surround mix, and retained the punch of the stereo well I think. One possibly annoying element is some added flanging which wasn't on the original. I'm not sure I think that was neeeded, the panning and delays are enough by their own, but it was OK. Sounded a bit more like Robin Trower's use of flanging IMO.
So to sum it up:
Good: my most anticipated surround songs all generally work very well. Bass is generally excellent and at times almost revelatory! 1983 middle section: WOW!
Bad: a bit inconsistent. Crosstown Traffic weak. Some songs lose a bit of punch compared to stereo.
Total score 8/10.
Great review! Absolutely agree that "1983" is the highlight and "Crosstown Traffic" is something of a missed opportunity, but in my opinion it can be improved with some tweaks. If you're feeling adventurous, I'd say either boost bother the FR and RR 2-3 dB OR rotate the four corner channels clockwise.
The more I listen to it, the more I'm disappointed with "Watchtower"- but like "Crosstown" it's 4-track which is certainly limiting surround-wise.
Daniel John
Senior Member
I'm also a guitarist (of course Hendrix is one of my fav players). For me and my system the mix is awesome from all aspects. The new Hendrix mix along with the quad releases of Billy Cobham's Spectrum and Mahavisnhu's Birds of Fire are in my top reference discs.
It's a win all around. (<--see what I did there?)
My only quibble is that the best track on the album -- 'Voodoo Child (slight return)' -- isn't as impressive in 5.1 as I'd hoped. I wonder if there was some limitation in the basic tracks there?
I think 'Watchtower' sounds amazing.
My only quibble is that the best track on the album -- 'Voodoo Child (slight return)' -- isn't as impressive in 5.1 as I'd hoped. I wonder if there was some limitation in the basic tracks there?
I think 'Watchtower' sounds amazing.
Upon first listen, I found much of the album, mix included, to be engaging, and other moments less-so.
I'm cool with that. It allowed my mind to wander some.
I found Watchtower to be quite a bizarre mix. A little off-putting at first. Upon relistening, it began to feel and sound better already.
I'm cool with that. It allowed my mind to wander some.
I found Watchtower to be quite a bizarre mix. A little off-putting at first. Upon relistening, it began to feel and sound better already.
salsdali
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
same, some odd mixing choices within that song and It's my favorite song on the album
Voodoo Child (Slight Return) has some of the best guitar work ever laid down, Jimi at his best, but fidelity is a little muddy
1983...(A Merman I should turn to be) - I really like Jimi's vocals and mixing choices on that, like he's alive again and in front of me, everything's very psychedelic, just the way it should be. Makes me wanna do some drugs hehe
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I give it a solid 8.
If I could rate on memories relived, only, it would get a 10 every time.
For me the new surround mixes are at once startling and strange. I can't explain in detail as it's been a bit since I listened twice through and the only notes I made were a big "8" & "hell yes!"
As is often the case, the more I listen the more my rating could improve. Lately there's so much of a good thing going on - not complaining!
If I could rate on memories relived, only, it would get a 10 every time.
For me the new surround mixes are at once startling and strange. I can't explain in detail as it's been a bit since I listened twice through and the only notes I made were a big "8" & "hell yes!"
As is often the case, the more I listen the more my rating could improve. Lately there's so much of a good thing going on - not complaining!
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- Sep 28, 2017
- Messages
- 317
To start, this has never been a favorite album of mine. I really love a few songs but for the most part, it just never grabbed me. This new 5.1 mix does a lot to improve my thoughts on it. As a few others have mentioned, Crosstown Traffic comes off as quite weak...no oomph or power at all. A bit of a let down there....but that is the only spot where I was majorly disappointed. The rest of the tracks sound better than I have ever heard them. I can finally properly appreciate the bass playing. The mix is no longer murky and sludgy. Backing vocals and guitar parts shine through brightly and distinctly. The mix is discrete and spacious. Eddie Kramer did a fine job. By far, this is the most I have ever enjoyed this material. The mix makes me want to play it repeatedly. Nice package too. A few of the songs still are not great compositions, so on the basis of the material, I vote an 8. Fantastic 5.1 mix, lovely package, good album.
Update on my review of the surround mix:
I made some changes to my setup. I have a modest setup which serves for both stereo and surround listening; a Cambridge Audio multi-format player and a Cambridge Audio older (2008?) receiver, using analog 5.1 in (actually 5.0 as I am not using a subwoofer at this time). The front speakers are (were) System Audio 1750 and the center speaker is a System Audio (710AV???). The SA front speakers are reasonably large floor speakers, very precise and "fast" sounding, tight but not very loud bass, Nice separation and clarity, but a little "clinical" sounding.
The rears are a pair of Castle Durham speakers which I've had since the early 90s. These are two-way shelf speakers, not the smallest, but still fairly small speakers. I am so used to the sound of them, and I like them. Very musical sounding, but not the most detailed speakers out there. I recently inherited a similar pair, so for kicks I tried these for the front as well, so I had 4 identical speakers in the corners. That means the front speakers were now also elevated closer to listening height. The rear speakers are on stands.
I must say these changes really transformed my experience of the mix. It all hangs together much, much better now. I was losing something in detail and the bass was not as impressive now, but almost everything I complained about with regards to lack of power and punch, and disappearing guitars was just about gone! A few of my complaints remain - Long Hot Summer Night is still slightly busy/messy. But overall this mix now impresses me more and more, so I have to up my rating to a 9/10. Burning of the Midnight Lamp towards the end really makes your head spin!
I made some changes to my setup. I have a modest setup which serves for both stereo and surround listening; a Cambridge Audio multi-format player and a Cambridge Audio older (2008?) receiver, using analog 5.1 in (actually 5.0 as I am not using a subwoofer at this time). The front speakers are (were) System Audio 1750 and the center speaker is a System Audio (710AV???). The SA front speakers are reasonably large floor speakers, very precise and "fast" sounding, tight but not very loud bass, Nice separation and clarity, but a little "clinical" sounding.
The rears are a pair of Castle Durham speakers which I've had since the early 90s. These are two-way shelf speakers, not the smallest, but still fairly small speakers. I am so used to the sound of them, and I like them. Very musical sounding, but not the most detailed speakers out there. I recently inherited a similar pair, so for kicks I tried these for the front as well, so I had 4 identical speakers in the corners. That means the front speakers were now also elevated closer to listening height. The rear speakers are on stands.
I must say these changes really transformed my experience of the mix. It all hangs together much, much better now. I was losing something in detail and the bass was not as impressive now, but almost everything I complained about with regards to lack of power and punch, and disappearing guitars was just about gone! A few of my complaints remain - Long Hot Summer Night is still slightly busy/messy. But overall this mix now impresses me more and more, so I have to up my rating to a 9/10. Burning of the Midnight Lamp towards the end really makes your head spin!
As mentioned above, Crosstown Traffic is a bit of a letdown but only because the rest sounds so good.
I've always hoped for Hendrix in surround and here it is and I gave it a 10.
Just waiting for that rainy day so I can dream away.....
I've always hoped for Hendrix in surround and here it is and I gave it a 10.
Just waiting for that rainy day so I can dream away.....
holland123
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
I gave this one a solid 9, Loved it, only reason it got a nine and not a 10 is that I have to boost the rears up about 1.5db in order to get a nice even front to back soundspace. with the rears boosted it is a very nice 4 corner mix. Some tracks are better than others but overall highly enjoyable, the remastering is also very good. I'm hoping they will also tackle Axis Bold as Love which is my favorite Hendrix album.
I can't see them releasing Axis in surround...they just released it in stereo...which is excellent
