Please welcome Bob Vosgien to QQ, the mastering engineer of the CTA Quad DTS Disc!!

[winopener]

Sure!

Last A&M Quad: 1975 (Mangione/Bellavia)
Last ABC Quad: 1975 (Rufus/Rufusized)
Last Atlantic Quad: 1975 (Spinners/Pick of the Litter)
Last Asylum Quad: 1976 (Mitchell/Hissing of Summer Lawns)
Last Arista Quad: 1976 (Manilow/This One's For You)
Last Columbia Double-Inventory Quad: 1977 (Return to Forever/Musicmagic)
Last Columbia Single-Inventory Quad: 1977 (Wagner/Love Feast of the Apostles)
Last RCA Quad: 1978 (Tomita/Kosmos)
Last RCA US Quad (Imported from Japan): 1979 (Tomita/Bolero)
Last Reprise Quad: 1975 (Sinatra/Main Event)
Last Warner Brothers Quad: 1975 (Graham Central Station/Ain't No Doubt About It)

missing something:
Last Virgin Quad: 1979 (Mike Oldfield/Exposed)

[winopener]

Just to give you an idea how long things could take, I mastered the CTA disc around eight months ago, and it was just released a month ago.
Bob

Probably there has been a change in-between: since you mastered the CTA tape to digital 24/96 in september the original release schedule should had been in november-december as a dvd-audio - the Copyright 2009 on the CTA package and the dvd-a logo suggest this; the plan was cancelled, then someone at Rhino said "well, we're sitting on a job almost done and already paid. You don't want dvd-a anymore? Ok, let's do a dvd-v only with dts and let's see how it goes".

BTW, who's the actual owner of Stax? Atlantic or Fantasy? I see cd releases of stax stuff from a bunch of different labels and can't figure out who's really holding the catalogue.

[Bob Vosgien]

Probably there has been a change in-between: since you mastered the CTA tape to digital 24/96 in september the original release schedule should had been in november-december as a dvd-audio - the Copyright 2009 on the CTA package and the dvd-a logo suggest this; the plan was cancelled, then someone at Rhino said "well, we're sitting on a job almost done and already paid. You don't want dvd-a anymore? Ok, let's do a dvd-v only with dts and let's see how it goes".

BTW, who's the actual owner of Stax? Atlantic or Fantasy? I see cd releases of stax stuff from a bunch of different labels and can't figure out who's really holding the catalogue.

As I said before in post #62, the DVD-A logo on the CTA disc was a TYPO. There was never any plans to make this a DVD-A disc.

[Q-Eight]

Bob,

So what do you think the next move will be? Are there any preliminary reports as to how well (or how poorly? ) the Chicago disc is selling? If it sells well, do you think there would be any chance that you or Rhino could prepare two or three new titles for around the Christmas rush?

[Chris Gerhard]

Probably there has been a change in-between: since you mastered the CTA tape to digital 24/96 in september the original release schedule should had been in november-december as a dvd-audio - the Copyright 2009 on the CTA package and the dvd-a logo suggest this; the plan was cancelled, then someone at Rhino said "well, we're sitting on a job almost done and already paid. You don't want dvd-a anymore? Ok, let's do a dvd-v only with dts and let's see how it goes".

BTW, who's the actual owner of Stax? Atlantic or Fantasy? I see cd releases of stax stuff from a bunch of different labels and can't figure out who's really holding the catalogue.

To the best of my knowledge, Concord Music Group owns Stax and Fantasy and Warner owns Atlantic.

Chris

[bmoura]

Probably there has been a change in-between: since you mastered the CTA tape to digital 24/96 in september the original release schedule should had been in november-december as a dvd-audio - the Copyright 2009 on the CTA package and the dvd-a logo suggest this; the plan was cancelled, then someone at Rhino said "well, we're sitting on a job almost done and already paid. You don't want dvd-a anymore? Ok, let's do a dvd-v only with dts and let's see how it goes".

BTW, who's the actual owner of Stax? Atlantic or Fantasy? I see cd releases of stax stuff from a bunch of different labels and can't figure out who's really holding the catalogue.

The early Stax recordings reverted to Atlantic (vs. staying with Stax) as part of a distribution deal Stax had with Atlantic. The later recordings on Stax were owned by Stax - and then later sold to Fantasy and then to Concord, as part of their purchase of Fantasy. Check the excellent book on the history of Stax: "Soulsville U.S.A.: The Story of Stax Records" - for details.

Speaking of Concord, they just bought Rounder as well !

[grill]

...If it sells well, do you think there would be any chance that you or Rhino could prepare two or three new titles for around the Christmas rush?

Oh yes, Rhino please, let us enjoy some nice Xmas quad-boxes

[Perpendicular]

Wait until you hear what Floyd Toole, retired Vice President of Acoustical Engineering for Harman International Industries, Inc, has to say about Quad.
Most will not like his remark.
I agree with him to an extent but would rather listen to Quad than 2-channel, myself.
http://twit.tv/htg14

[Bob Vosgien]

Bob,

Would be curious to know what your take is on the Eric Johnson - Ah Via Musicom DVD-A from Capitol. Eric Johnson was reportedly put out for not being consulted and there was talk on his website (2003) of re-doing it with all the correct tracks being utilized this time. Then that promise faded away without any further discussion. I secured a copy and opened it just a few weeks ago. While the fidelity is outstanding, you can tell certain guitar embellishments are different. Just curious what you might know and could comment on from the inside track.

I have just about all of the Capitol DVD-As produced, lacking Dave Koz I guess.

Thanks, Tim

Hi Tim,
Yes I did master the Eric Johnson DVD-A, and I looked in my collection at home and realized I don't have a copy!
Yes, I'm sure the fidelity is excellent since the 5.1 remix was recorded on a Studer 2" machine with a custom 8 track head stack we had made originally to play back the 1" 4-track Beatle masters back in 1987. That Studer was also used on the Crowded House 5.1 along with the Al Green and Queen "Night at the Opera" disc's. Eric was upset that some extra guitar tracks were used in the 5.1 remix and wanted the disc pulled off the shelves immediately. I'm guessing but, Capitol probably told Eric that he could remix the project but he would have to cover the costs since a good chunk of money was already spent on the project. Like Warner Bros, I don't think Capitol made any money on the DVD-A's they put out.

[winopener]

I don't think Capitol made any money on the DVD-A's they put out.

To be fair, the few Capitol dvd-a were the toughest one to find, there was something very wrong with the distribution of these titles. Nowadays we're more or less all used to "buy online" instead of brick&mortar store, it was not so in 2000-2005. The only Capitol title i was able to buy in a store was Rem Document, for all the others i had to rely on ebay and similar stuff and it took quite a while to track down the Al Green Greatest Hits.
How few of these were pressed at their time? Other than the "former dvd-a later dualdisc" (example: REM on Warner) and some single title here and there (Metallica just reprinted their dvd-a) i suppose there has been only one pressing run for dvd-a titles.

[John Svensson]

Finally read through this thread and I'm giddy.......any of the Bob mentioned mixes <Brothers & Sisters, Close To The Edge, Trilogy> would have me peeing my pants if they come out. I'd buy in any format
though at this stage I 'd think DVD would maximize sales......but I don't care to stir up that discussion any further. Bring em on, I might even finally convert my brother if the product were out there. John S.

[timbre4]

Thanks for the EJ DVD-A details; I'm sure the costs were enough to make a revised version go away quietly.

If I decide to part with my copy, I'll let you know FIRST!

[ArnoldLayne]

Welcome to the surround community Bob, I too am very glad to have you here.

I've been hesitant to purchase this release, since it's not in lossless format. Also, Warner has been on my "black listing" after what I saw fellows in the U.S. suffer when the Genesis 1970-1975 SACD box was released. But I have just now ordered my copy of CTA, following my principle to support surround releases. After all, it'll be a better bang for the buck than Lou Reed's MMM...

Blu-ray would have been my choice, since lossless is my game. I suppose royalty issues force Warner to choose one format for the release. But I truly hope the uncompressed source is stored away safely for eventual re-releases in the future. Hires surround is becoming bigger and bigger, I believe BD players, HD mediaplayers and HTPC are becoming much more widespread than DVD-A and SACD devices ever were. It's merely a matter of superior technology winning over previous formats such as CD, DTS and DVD-Video that were very much oriented toward replicating the capacities of analog formats; stereo playback and interlaced video being two very good examples of this.

And hey, I see Rhino offers FLAC downloads in their webpage. Expanding this to cover Quad releases in lossless 4.0 96/24 would be very nice. Bob, if you don't know it already I can assure you that such sales would address both Blu-ray, DVD-A and HTPC audiences. Knowledge and affordable tools for hires format conversions are very widespread nowadays. Originally a spin-off from certain "obscure activities", it could actually benefit a company betting on quality and exclusiveness. Believe me, format wars and DRM has been a PITA for audiophiles during the last decade. I think leaving this behind would be a logical step for Rhino. The DTS release plans and the already existing stereo FLAC download is for me a proofs of heading the right way. If your executives choose to expand the Digital product line to hires surround, I think you may count on an extremely broad support in this as well as other Internet communities.

One last point I'm afraid I have to make regarding Rhino's pricing policy. I can't help comparing with the King Crimson 40th anniversary edtions, these we are getting in CD, DTS 24/96 and DVD-A all together for less than half the price of CTA. Having a B.A. degree, I do sense some backwardly thinking regarding price elasticities, overhead costs and distribution channels over at Rhino. It's a pity IMO, because in the end it goes against the interests of both the signed artists and you people making an art of putting together the package. Record companies are whining over Internet but the naked truth, again IMO, is that they apply last-century marketing practices and are missing many opportunites to reach extraordinary volumes for niche releases. Anyway, I'm digressing... Just to conclude, as an example of what I mean: In hires at 20$ delivered I would buy each and every album listed in this thread, and more if there were. At the current 40$ and DTS I'll get a few albums, definitely less than 10, so my total spending would be significantly lower.

So then, off to give you some publicity at some Spanish sites...

Cheers
AL

[timbre4]

ArnoldLayne,

Please remember that Rhino Handmade releases are SMALLER releases sold directly by Rhino and NOT available in stores as the King Crimson releases are, so it's not a fair comparison.

Timbre4

[timbre4]

Bob,

Is there any idea when Rhino will have enough sales data to make the decision what the next move is on the DTS DVD front?

Thanks, Tim

[Quadwreck]

This Chicago release is being made available to stores, at least one here in Portland, price $33.00.

[bmoura]

This Chicago release is being made available to stores, at least one here in Portland, price $33.00.

Interesting. I thought the Rhino Handmade discs were only available on the web.

[ArnoldLayne]

ArnoldLayne,

Please remember that Rhino Handmade releases are SMALLER releases sold directly by Rhino and NOT available in stores as the King Crimson releases are, so it's not a fair comparison.

Timbre4

I think Rhino might actually be making them smaller by their price, format and distribution policies. CTA is actually one of the more expensive albums and movies I ever bought, if not the most expensive. This narrows down the sales potential to collectors and a few altruist surroundheads like us. Maybe I'm too optimistic but I think there are many more people out there that would like this stuff.

[Perpendicular]

I think Rhino might actually be making them smaller by their price, format and distribution policies. CTA is actually one of the more expensive albums and movies I ever bought, if not the most expensive. This narrows down the sales potential to collectors and a few altruist surroundheads like us. Maybe I'm too optimistic but I think there are many more people out there that would like this stuff.

Everyone should realize that, regarding price, this record was originally a double lp worth of songs.
So, take this into consideration when justifying the cost.

[Q-Eight]

I thought the price was decent. I've paid more for some Q8's!!

[Frantic]

Bob,
Welcome, welcome & welcome!

Sorry I am slow to this posting but we had two deaths in the family over a 3 week period and we were very busy to say the least.

Your work on CTA is fantastic and greatly appreciated. This news about future releases is a breath of fresh air to this community as things were slowing down to a point that if a "Spoken Word" release was marked surround sound, we would have bought it!

As stated by many before me, we will buy what is offered. I have no wish list, just crank them out and I will write the check.

THANK YOU

[timbre4]

That these Rhino Handmade CTA DTS DVDs should be available in a store seems like an anomaly. The only time I ever see Handmade titles in a store they are labelled OOP and marked way up. Somebody believes in this enough to have somehow ordered some and marked them up mildly?

Have made an inquiry, will report what I hear.

[JonUrban]

That these Rhino Handmade CTA DTS DVDs should be available in a store seems like an anomaly

Maybe the store owned bought a bunch directly from Rhino, marked them up $3 to cover the shipping (selling them basically at cost as a service to his customers), and put them on the shelf.
Maybe the store is a big proponent of surround sound.
Maybe the owner of the store is a big proponent of surround sound.
Maybe he's a member here, and there.
Maybe that explains it.

[bmoura]

Maybe the store owned bought a bunch directly from Rhino, marked them up $3 to cover the shipping (selling them basically at cost as a service to his customers), and put them on the shelf.
Maybe the store is a big proponent of surround sound.
Maybe the owner of the store is a big proponent of surround sound.
Maybe he's a member here, and there.
Maybe that explains it.

Could be!

[ArnoldLayne]

My copy just arrived and the first songs are pouring out of my speakers right now. I'm already astonished by the sound quality, dynamics and detail are very good. There's still some of the "muddiness" I always percieve for the DTS format but no worse than vinyl so it's OK. Package has at first glance an air of "low-budget", I was expecting a box with book and all that. But it saves bookshelf space and I suppose for those of you that were around back then it brings about some nostalgy, right? All in all, this is a very happy moment. I'm absolutely glad to have this one in my collection, despite having to hide the invloice so that Mrs. Layne shall not know... I will have to retract my words about not getting the whole series, if they all come out this well I won't be able tor resist the temptation. A big kudos Bob, I truly hope you get the chance to continue your fine work and get your hands on those other master tapes.