PULSE seems to have 640 kbs Dolby DD?

It seems that the (long awaited) Pink Floyd video PULSE has a Dolby digital track with 640 kbs bit rate. (I do not have the discs myself yet).
I first put it aside as a mistake, as DVD specs allow 448 as maximum bit rate for Dolby Digital on DVD-Video.

The info most sources use (from SonyBMG?) about the audio is:
- Stereo track
- Dolby Digital 5.1 - 448 kbps
- Dolby Digital 5.1 - 640 kbps
And no DTS-track

It is known that the DD encoding standard does support 640 as maximum bit rate, but if this works on DVD-V why has nobody done it before

However, to make confusion worse, Australian sellers mention DTS and DD 5.1, which seems very odd as it is a region 0 release and the European (PAL) and North American (NTSC) don't mention DTS on the cover.
--
At least the first comments about the surround mix, especially about the second part (DSotM), indicate more use of surround than your standard concert/audience mix.

The DD 640kb/s is not part of the official DVD spec, so while it is possible to make a 640kb/s DVD (and has been done before as a hidden track on one of the first test DVDs), there's no guarantee it will play in all DVD players. The first and second generation Toshiba DVD players HATED the 640kb/s bitstream and would lock up. An old Sharp player simply muted the track. It's worth noting all Sony DVD players have passed DD 640kb/s bitstreams. Because it's not in the DVD spec, this is why there will be two Dolby Digital tracks, with the 640kb/s track being track #2. Who knows? ..Perhaps now more of the newer DVD players will pass the bitstream intact.


The HD-DVD and Blu-Ray specs do allow for a 640kb/s DD track and much much more, so the upper bit rate of the older DD codec will be fine on those formats.


Quick edit- Here is a link to a DVD review of Pulse. The reviewer seems to notice an improvement when comparing the 640kb/s track to the 448kb/s track.
http://www.pinkfloydz.com/pulsedvdreview.htm

My DVD-Player Panasonic S 97 will work fine with the 640 kbs as PAL Version here in Germany. About picture and sound quality I should make better a thread in the general surround section, so that some more can read this or write their own opinion, when this DVD is available in the USA.

My sony dvd player[circa 1998]plays the 640 kbs track without a problem.

Someone must have done a decent job to lobby out DTS

kempfand said:

Someone must have done a decent job to lobby out DTS

Click to expand...

Yes, it's a Sony Music (Columbia) release (EMI for Europe)
Because it's such a major release, it seems a bit strange to have a 640 kbs DD track in stead of a 758 kbs DTS one (where it is at least obvious wether your setup supports it or not).

Ge Someone said:

Yes, it's a Sony Music (Columbia) release (EMI for Europe)
Because it's such a major release, it seems a bit strange to have a 640 kbs DD track in stead of a 758 kbs DTS one (where it is at least obvious wether your setup supports it or not).

Click to expand...

"Strange"? How about totally stupid.

Wunlow said:

The HD-DVD and Blu-Ray specs do allow for a 640kb/s DD track and much much more, so the upper bit rate of the older DD codec will be fine on those formats.

Click to expand...

The BRD & HD DVD specs allow for Dolby Digital to a MAXIMUM of 640kb/sec, not any more.
Additional bitrate under Dolby Digital is unsupported.
To get a higher bitrate, the use of DD+ is required, and this is not mandated under BRD, only HD DVD.
See below for what is - and is not - supported in each format:

[FONT=&quot]HD DVD mandatory decoders[/FONT]<o></o>
<o></o>
[FONT=&quot]1) Dolby Digital[/FONT]<o></o>
<o></o>
[FONT=&quot]2) Dolby Digital Plus[/FONT]<o></o>
<o></o>
[FONT=&quot]3) Dolby TrueHD - 2-channel[/FONT]<o></o>
<o></o>
<o></o>[FONT=&quot]4) DTS-HD (which would include their standard DTS ES or 96/24)<o></o>[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]<o></o>[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5) MPEG audio[/FONT]<o></o>
<o></o>
[FONT=&quot]6) multi-channel PCM[/FONT]<o></o>
<o></o>
[FONT=&quot]HD DVD optional decoders[/FONT]<o></o>
<o></o>
[FONT=&quot]1) DTS HD lossless[/FONT]<o></o>
<o></o>
<o></o><o></o><o></o>
[FONT=&quot]Blu-ray Disc mandatory decoders[/FONT]<o></o>
<o></o>
[FONT=&quot]1) Dolby Digital (up to 640kbps)<o></o>[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] <o></o>[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2)DTS-HD (which would include their standard DTS ES or 96/24<o></o>[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] <o></o>[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Blu-ray Disc optional decoders[/FONT][FONT=&quot]<o></o>[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] <o></o>[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1) Dolby Digital Plus<o></o>[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] <o></o>[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2) Dolby TrueHD<o></o>[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] <o></o>[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3) DTS HD lossless<o></o>[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] <o></o>[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5) PCM up to 8-channels<o></o>[/FONT]

So now you know - Sony made this disc to conform with the pathetic Blu Ray.
And why DTS was ignored on a MUSIC release is simply strange - especially given there are 2 Dolby Digital streams!

neil wilkes said:

So now you know - Sony made this disc to conform with the pathetic Blu Ray.
And why DTS was ignored on a MUSIC release is simply strange - especially given there are 2 Dolby Digital streams!

Click to expand...

So what they will do is likely just move the video and audio to that new format without changing anything. That will certainly make the people that bought into the new format extremely happy.

Sony does it once again.

I was thinking of buying this today but now I am thinking that maybe a boycott is in order.

Guy Robinson said:

So what they will do is likely just move the video and audio to that new format without changing anything. That will certainly make the people that bought into the new format extremely happy.

Sony does it once again.

I was thinking of buying this today but now I am thinking that maybe a boycott is in order.

Click to expand...

You can come and watch mine.

neil wilkes said:

Sony made this disc to conform with Blu Ray.

Click to expand...

I doubt that, as BluRay Discs differ from DVD-V in many more ways than audio track bit rates.
Of course the Dolby Digital codec, widely in use on most DVD-Vs, always had a maximum bit rate of 640 kbs. For some reason the DVD forum limited the maximum bit rate for the DVD-V standard to 448 kbs.
Just guessing, could it be that the DD playback (decoder) license was always specified up to 640? Only DVD forum spec limit it (on DVD-V) to 448?

Which make me think, is this disc correctly bearing the DVD-V logo? (maybe it does, coz it has the lower bit rates as well...)

Well it will be interesting to see how many people without new equipment can decode the 640. I am assuming that generally they won't be able to. Maybe I am wrong. If so, I take it all back. However, if I am not, it is just one more thing that Sony is doing that pisses me off. If decoders on older equipment are not set-up to handle 640 then keep the 640 off regular DVD's and keep it to the HD formats exclusively. Include the DTS for the higher bitrate on a standard DVD instead. Obviously Sony is no doubt going to take this tact with all their concert DVD's in order to force you to buy new equipment to decode the higher bit-rate Dolby. Including a higher bit rate DTS would mean that you would be getting the higher quality so there would not be a perceived upgrade required. This is just the first release of many like this I fear. There will be others.

Pink Floyd Is Always The Music First Video Is #2 Lets Keep In Mind It's Audio 5.1 Or More Trainman92

TRAINMAN92 said:

Lets Keep In Mind It's Audio 5.1 Or More

Click to expand...

What does this mean? Stereo only would be totally unacceptable.

Neil,

I was aware Dolby Digital's max bit rate is 640kb/s. Forgetting formats, it's the max DD bitrate for ALL current DD receivers and and decoders. My statement- "The HD-DVD and Blu-Ray specs do allow for a 640kb/s DD track and much much more", while somewhat muddy in it's description, was referring to the various audio formats you mentioned in your post. (Lossy/lossless/and more than 5.1 channels if needed.)

Ge Someone said:

I doubt that, as BluRay Discs differ from DVD-V in many more ways than audio track bit rates.
Of course the Dolby Digital codec, widely in use on most DVD-Vs, always had a maximum bit rate of 640 kbs. For some reason the DVD forum limited the maximum bit rate for the DVD-V standard to 448 kbs.
Just guessing, could it be that the DD playback (decoder) license was always specified up to 640? Only DVD forum spec limit it (on DVD-V) to 448?

Which make me think, is this disc correctly bearing the DVD-V logo? (maybe it does, coz it has the lower bit rates as well...)

Click to expand...

The DVD-V compliant bitstream, 448Kb/sec, is there.
Also current BRD specs ONLY mandate Dolby Digital at up to 640Kb/sec, as well as MPEG-2 Video.
Check out 5th Element - poor MPEG-2, Dolby Digital. That's BRD for you.

NO DVD-V player is required to decode Dolby Digital above 448Kb/sec, although a few will.

No But That What This Forum And Web Site Is All About Besides Pink Floyd Has Been Doing Quad Concerts Since Wyyh Tour In The 70's Trainman92