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[Mr. Afternoon]

This sounds like a hardware problem somewhere in the chain. Otherwise wouldn't everyone be having this issue?

My recent Black Sabbath and Jefferson Starship quadio discs don't play properly on my system. I have to manually turn off the rear surrounds in my AVR otherwise I get six channel playback. I just figure it's just the AVR. I'm not about to return them

I have a feeling there's either an authoring error and some systems are good at not screwing up or that there's a problem with the rigidity or implementation of the TrueHD specifications that is causing this issue.

 

[DrKlahn]

This sounds like a hardware problem somewhere in the chain. Otherwise wouldn't everyone be having this issue?

My recent Black Sabbath and Jefferson Starship quadio discs don't play properly on my system. I have to manually turn off the rear surrounds in my AVR otherwise I get six channel playback. I just figure it's just the AVR. I'm not about to return them

Denon/Marantz? Just asking because my former Marantz pre amp loved to upmix things in any mode outside of pure. One of the reasons it's former.

 

[weekendtoy]

Denon/Marantz? Just asking because my former Marantz pre amp loved to upmix things in any mode outside of pure. One of the reasons it's former.

Marantz SR6011. I only have trouble with 2 discs out of thousands so I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater yet.

 

[kcrimson]

I have noticed when playing back rips of Who's Next Atmos from .m4a files (one song per file) that the first few seconds of each song is cut. I'm using kodi running on an Odroid and an HDMI connection into a Marantz AV8805 preamp processor. The Atmos played from disc via an Oppo UDP-205 does not have any issues. I have not played around with it enough to determine if it is settings on the kodi input or some other configuration issue. I also have all 3 titles mentioned in this thread, so I will try to play around with these also and see what happens. If it is an issue playing the disc natively, then this would be a legit issue in my mind. If it is an issue just with rips, then this is my problem and not a disc issue. It does seem to be related to a new handshake occurring at the start of each new track.

Well, I had a chance to check out my avatar album, LTIA, via the disc on the Oppo and Marantz preamp/processor. Bottom line up front, I heard no issues at the beginning of each track. I listened very carefully for any gaps or missing notes, including the tracks that run together on Side 2 (Easy Money / Talking Drum / LTIA pt 2). Any gaps would have been noticeable.

As an aside, listening to this album in Atmos was nothing short of amazing, the best I have ever heard it. All the little sounds coming from any direction, instrumentation that sounds like they are in the room with you, vocals are at the appropriate volume within the mix, I could not just skip from track to track, I had to listen to the whole album. I won't get to the other 2 albums until tomorrow, though my expectations right now are that they are going to play fine.

I would be supportive of this if there were are a few seconds missing for each song, but I don't have the issue, and certainly would not want to discourage future physical releases.

 

[HomerJAU]

If you can , also please do like @HomerJAU didi and send an email telling them we are not going to take this hastily arranged products

It wasn’t me that sent that email. You got me confused with someone else.

I rip all my discs to files for playback. There are sometimes issues with chapter times but they can be fixed in the MKV file that’s created from the disc.

 

[AYanguas]

You know I wonder if the rookie mistake is encoding separate M2TS files for each track instead of a big M2TS file without authoring it in a seamless-playback mode...can anybody confirm? Ideally if you're not using the weird seamless-playback stuff, you'd want the entire album to be one M2TS file to avoid desyncs...

Yes. This is exactly the authoring 'mistake' that can cause problems.

The problems can be 'augmented' when the hdmi handshake between the player and the display (video/audio) is long enough and occurs every new file change. Some systems may work faster (direct connection to TV) and others may take longer (Projectors, additional devices in the chain like Vertex2 that assure proper handshake, etc.)

This problem is not noticed when the song starts with a low fade-in, or have some seconds silence at the beginning.

If the BD authoring encodes a single M2TS file for the whole album, the problem could arise only at the beginning of the first song, because for consecutive songs there is no file change and no hdmi handshake.

May I mention again the proper build of the files 'Dolby Atmos Snippet' that you can download from:
Pure Audio SONIC LEAKS von Silent Work in Dolby Atmos und Auro-3D®
They have an initial 10 seconds without starting the program, with a visual indication in the video that is "waiting for hadshaking..."
I would recommend that you download those samples 'Dolby Atmos Snippet' and check yourself that there is someone who understands this problem and acts accordingly.

 

[AYanguas]

Quite a few people in this forum are able to manipulate the files to get a single file full album and avoid the problem. So we can enjoy specially gapless albums like 'Dark Side of the Moon' or 'Snow Goose'.

I agree with @Old Quad Guy that we shouldn't make a lot of noise against the production companies, that could translate into a greater reluctance of labels to release physical copies.

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

Okay guys, did some digging.
If a BD authored with TrueHD has multiple files in one title and is NOT authored with seamless-playback mode, there WILL be a desync. In seamless-playback mode, the TrueHD stream in each M2TS file has repeating samples.
Unfortunately I don't think I have any of these "broken" titles, but I suspect this is what is happening. Either author the title with one large file for the album, or use seamless-playback code.

 

[woody]

Just my luck as i am still to receive my XTC- The Big Express disc from SDE (as I added it to a delayed Prince pressing- and still waiting for Duran Duran title ) and twiddle my thumbs for weeks whilst others are placing poll votes, then a trusted member asks for me to immediately return it.

 

[kap'n krunch]

if more than >95% of the BDs are authored correctly , why can't the management have them sent to the ones who can author them properly as opposed to people who do not care about putting out a mediocre end product, because that's what it comes down to because otherwise they would have had PROPER QC and offered a perfect product...
and as much as I respect great members here I do not agree at all with the "if we protest they will stop offering physical media" reasoning, to me it's like a spouse who gets beaten and is afraid to report her abusive spouse to the authorities.

OF COURSE I do not like returning these awesome discs but if some of us don't return them and protest they will keep churning out faulty discs, and this Forum is quite powerful and if a lot of us do this, well...

And I really don't think we supporters of Physical media should resort to technical "solutions" to listen to them correctly...

 

[GOS]

if more than >95% of the BDs are authored correctly , why can't the management have them sent to the ones who can author them properly as opposed to people who do not care about putting out a mediocre end product, because that's what it comes down to because otherwise they would have had PROPER QC and offered a perfect product...
and as much as I respect great members here I do not agree at all with the "if we protest they will stop offering physical media" reasoning, to me it's like a spouse who gets beaten and is afraid to report her abusive spouse to the authorities.

OF COURSE I do not like returning these awesome discs but if some of us don't return them and protest they will keep churning out faulty discs, and this Forum is quite powerful and if a lot of us do this, well...

And I really don't think we supporters of Physical media should resort to technical "solutions" to listen to them correctly...

Well, technically speaking...oh well. Nevermind.

 

[Francis Drake]

if more than >95% of the BDs are authored correctly , why can't the management have them sent to the ones who can author them properly as opposed to people who do not care about putting out a mediocre end product, because that's what it comes down to because otherwise they would have had PROPER QC and offered a perfect product...
and as much as I respect great members here I do not agree at all with the "if we protest they will stop offering physical media" reasoning, to me it's like a spouse who gets beaten and is afraid to report her abusive spouse to the authorities.

OF COURSE I do not like returning these awesome discs but if some of us don't return them and protest they will keep churning out faulty discs, and this Forum is quite powerful and if a lot of us do this, well...

And I really don't think we supporters of Physical media should resort to technical "solutions" to listen to them correctly...

People do seem to have very short memories.

When DVD came out, there were always upgrades being released for playback issues, i suffered many times be it with Pioneer, Denon or Sony machines.

If there are technical issues with a particular make and models ability to play a particular disc, then it is neccassery for the machines manufacturers to supply corrected firmware to enable those units affected to perform as designed.

People need to be very wary of just sending discs back. Instead it is best to start a conversation with the releases company, and take it from there.

 

[jimfisheye]

Now that you mention it I did notice the cue times from the ripped mkv file were off for the KC Larks' Tongues. I often use the chapter file to edit a cue file to split tracks. Chapter splits of mkv files that segue get corrupted doing it that way round. I don't know of any ripping apps for bluray that handle this nicely either. Anyway, their ID times were off for a couple tracks. So yeah, that's an authoring mistake.

I'm really torn between being a stubborn ass and hard core returning some of these vs being grateful that the thing was released at all! I guess I'll save the hard core returns for when the audio is compromised. Volume war and shrillness kind of stuff.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Just my luck as i am still to receive my XTC- The Big Express disc from SDE (as I added it to a delayed Prince pressing- and still waiting for Duran Duran title ) and twiddle my thumbs for weeks whilst others are placing poll votes, then a trusted member asks for me to immediately return it.

I am playing XTC's THE BIG EXPRESS as we speak and can report absolutely NO issues with the BD~A. In fact not only is the authoring straighforward but there is NO cut off of content from track to track.

Superb Steve Wilson remix!

 

[Francis Drake]

Now that you mention it I did notice the cue times from the ripped mkv file were off for the KC Larks' Tongues. I often use the chapter file to edit a cue file to split tracks. Chapter splits of mkv files that segue get corrupted doing it that way round. I don't know of any ripping apps for bluray that handle this nicely either. Anyway, their ID times were off for a couple tracks. So yeah, that's an authoring mistake.

I'm really torn between being a stubborn ass and hard core returning some of these vs being grateful that the thing was released at all! I guess I'll save the hard core returns for when the audio is compromised. Volume war and shrillness kind of stuff.

Why are you ignoring the pain free method

Just contact the release company, supplying model number, serial number and firmware version {i take it you have checked for an update?

You could also contact your players technical department, again supplying the above information.

Really, just sending discs back goes nowhere, apart from giving the impression of a child throwing its rattle out of the cot.

 

[privateuniverse]

Well, I had a chance to check out my avatar album, LTIA, via the disc on the Oppo and Marantz preamp/processor. Bottom line up front, I heard no issues at the beginning of each track. I listened very carefully for any gaps or missing notes, including the tracks that run together on Side 2 (Easy Money / Talking Drum / LTIA pt 2). Any gaps would have been noticeable.

I am one of the folks experiencing the problem with all three titles. However, on Larks' Tongues, the problem does not occur for me during the segues between "Easy Money" > "Talking Drum" and between "Talking Drum" > "LTIA part 2". It only occurs on the earlier tracks.

 

[AYanguas]

I am one of the folks experiencing the problem with all three titles. However, on Larks' Tongues, the problem does not occur for me during the segues between "Easy Money" > "Talking Drum" and between "Talking Drum" > "LTIA part 2". It only occurs on the earlier tracks.

The LTIA 2023 Blu-Ray 1, in the playlist of "2023 mixes" has 4 files for 6 songs:

00002.m2ts - Contains LTIA-Part One
00001.m2ts - Contains Book of Saturday
00003.m2ts - Contains Exiles
00000.m2ts - Contains Easy Money, The Talking Drum and LTIA-Part Two

This explains why there is no sound drop between "Easy Money" > "Talking Drum" and between "Talking Drum" -> "LTIA- Part Two". They are 'together' in the same file.

Good authoring decision for the three last songs that are 'together'. The authoring technician had to know what he was doing. At least partially.
BUT why not the whole album in a single file? The silence at the beggining of LTIA-Part One, and the silence gap between the first three songs are not too long, and in some systems the HDMI handshake for the change of the file may be longer than the silence gap, thus dropping the first seconds of sound.

It would be interesting to find out if there could be any restriction in some authoring software that limits the size of M2TS files.
If not, it is only ignorance of the authoring technician? Or the quality check is done with systems without any HDMI handshake and the problem goes unnoticed?

My opinion is that someone with contacts on Authoring companies, or authoring technicians, could explain the problem and suggest the Authoring Method:
- Whole album in single file and at least 10 seconds silence at the beginning of the file.
- Mention to the 'Dolby Atmos Snippet' downloads from: Pure Audio SONIC LEAKS von Silent Work in Dolby Atmos und Auro-3D® could also help to understand.

 

[AYanguas]

I checked the Pink Floyd 'Dark Side of the Moon' 2023 Atmos Blu-Ray.

It has a single file 00001.m2ts (6.77 GB) for the whole Atmos Album.

Perhaps it does not have the 10 silence seconds at the beginning, but this album starts so low that it does not matter.

 

[kcrimson]

I am one of the folks experiencing the problem with all three titles. However, on Larks' Tongues, the problem does not occur for me during the segues between "Easy Money" > "Talking Drum" and between "Talking Drum" > "LTIA part 2". It only occurs on the earlier tracks.

This is interesting...though I listened very carefully at the beginning of LTIA, pt1, Book Of Saturday, and Exiles also.
It was still fine playing back from disc on the Oppo UDP-205 and the Marantz AV8805.

I understand the authoring differences from post #37.

It is odd that different folks are getting different results for the same discs.

 

[atrocity]

This is interesting...though I listened very carefully at the beginning of LTIA, pt1, Book Of Saturday, and Exiles also.
It was still fine playing back from disc on the Oppo UDP-205 and the Marantz AV8805.

I understand the authoring differences from post #37.

It is odd that different folks are getting different results for the same discs.

I don't know if this is relevant or not, but I remember in the early days of dual-layer DVD when the layer change would bring the movie to a halt for a second or so.

Aside from all the other cool things Oppo did for us, they built their players in a way that completely eliminated any ability to notice a layer change. I had so thoroughly forgotten about it that I found it jarring when my first Blu-ray player, a Panasonic, re-introduced that annoyance.

Think about that: Oppo solved the layer change issue in their very first DVD player, but after so many years had passed that Blu-rays had become a thing, at least one company STILL didn't care enough to do the same thing.

Learning via this thread that it's still a world of half-assers infuriates me without surprising me in the least.