Bootleg SACD / DVD-Audio Discs?

[Chris Gerhard]

There are... kinda. About a year ago I was despertely seeking for a reasonable priced NIN - The Downward Spiral SACD on eBay. Found several copies coming from Down Under area and went for one - big mistake. It looked *almost* exactly as the Universal DLX 2-disc version... BUT! When inserted into my player, the SACD disc (the bonus one is regular CD) read "CD" instead "SACD" on the display. Damn, the only thing it lacked was the trademark slipcase, but the disc itself looked unbelievably convincing....
I sent it back to meet its maker, claiming full refund and threating by reporting some kind piracy. I was told they're "going to check out with their supplier" and "item never returned" eventually - and that was it.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised and I am sorry you got stuck, but by bootleg SACD, I meant an actual SACD that was not legitimate, meaning neither licensed nor public domain in the country of origin. I can't argue with someone that would consider a public domain SACD a bootleg really, but for my terminology that is ok. I have seen the silly bootleg CD's advertised with SACD, DTS, DSD, HDCD and any other logo the bootlegger had at his disposal, none or little of it was right and it was a bootleg CD to begin with.

Chris

 

[John Svensson]

Doesn't it take quite an investment to actually pay the royalties and have the equipment to produce real SACDs? Given that, I don't think bootleggers will be churning out any actual SACD boots, that costs too much when they can decive with a few fake labels on a CD-R. John S.

 

[John Svensson]

"Royalties" here meant as in that large fee to Sony for using SACD..not to the artists.

 

[soundboy]

Doesn't it take quite an investment to actually pay the royalties and have the equipment to produce real SACDs? Given that, I don't think bootleggers will be churning out any actual SACD boots, that costs too much when they can decive with a few fake labels on a CD-R.

I think this is one of the biggest hurdles to get over if one wants to produce counterfeit SACDs.

 

[Bob Squires Jr]

Not for counterfeiting but for ignorance....
My biggest problem isn't countefeit SACDs, but is with sellers not knowing or not reading packaging.
I just bought the 3 disc set of the Rolling Stones advertised as SACD but when I got it it was plain stereo...
"DSD" yes, but not SACD (no SACD light on the player).
This wasn't the first time I've had to return a disc marked DSD that was sold as SACD and wasn't.
Of course it goes the other way as well... my two George Thorogood discs are
SACD but not marked. (not Multi-Ch...drat! ) and the The Moody Blues - In Search Of The Lost Chord.

But I have bought a few discs from Hong Kong sellers and was more than
happy with what I got. (I got both of my Nektar discs from there!)

-B

 

[Jens]

There is no SACD manufacturing plant in China. There are two in the world if I'm not mistaken, one in Austria, the other in the US.

There have been a lot of false SACDs offered on eBay. I've come across titles by Abba, the Bee Gees, Mariah Carey, Enigma -- none of which actually exists as such. Some of them really had too many logos on the to be credible -- SACD, DSD, HDCD, XRCD, you name it.

 

[Jens]

I just bought the 3 disc set of the Rolling Stones advertised as SACD but when I got it it was plain stereo...
"DSD" yes, but not SACD (no SACD light on the player).

This is a well-known issue with the ABKCO releases. After releasing the Rolling Stones remasters on Hybrid SACDs they re-issued them as RBCDs but they used the same serial numbers -- idiots!

There's no way to tell from the serial number whether it's the regular CD or Super Audio CD. The same problem occurs on Amazon.

 

[soundboy]

There is no SACD manufacturing plant in China. There are two in the world if I'm not mistaken, one in Austria, the other in the US.

There have been a lot of false SACDs offered on eBay. I've come across titles by Abba, the Bee Gees, Mariah Carey, Enigma -- none of which actually exists as such. Some of them really had too many logos on the to be credible -- SACD, DSD, HDCD, XRCD, you name it.

There WAS a SACD manufacturing plant in Hong Kong, China. It was the Viva Magnetics facility, but it has since went out of business. SACDs released by HK labels are now pressed either in Japan (by Sony) or in Europe.

I believe there're 3 SACD plants operating in the world....Sony in Japan and in Austria, and I believe Sonopress in Austria (or somewhere in Europe). Sony's DADC plant in Terre Haute, Indiana, from all indications, has stopped pressing SACD.

Counterfeiters generally paste on too many logos onto their pirated discs. However, there're SACDs with CD layers that feature HDCD encoding. As for XRCD being on the CD layer of a hybrid SACD....JVC, the owner of the XRCD process, nixed the idea when HK label Hugo Productions proposed it.

 

[soundboy]

This is a well-known issue with the ABKCO releases. After releasing the Rolling Stones remasters on Hybrid SACDs they re-issued them as RBCDs but they used the same serial numbers -- idiots!

Same for Sam Cooke, the Animals, and the Herman's Hermits.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

Same for Sam Cooke, the Animals, and the Herman's Hermits.

Yes, I have all three of those DSD mastered compilation CD's and the sellers all indicated they were SACD's, one even came from Amazon. The CD's are all good enough and they were all stereo SACD's so I gave all three sellers a free pass for their unintentional mistakes. I do wish I had the SACD's instead but I doubt if any one of those mistakes were the worse thing that happened to me on the days I received them.

Chris

 

[silvahalo007]

I searched this thread out as I've just ordered some of the Genesis SACD/DVDs from Hong Kong. So far the ones I have received seem totally legit, but I'm really curious as to why they are NTSC dvds when Hong Kong is on a PAL standard. I was under the impression the only place you can get the NTSC dvds (with the SACDs) was Japan. Anyway, I'm not complaining but very curious. Why would the Hong Kong sellers have these versions that are not compatible with their own country's television standard??

 

[Old Quad Guy]

I searched this thread out as I've just ordered some of the Genesis SACD/DVDs from Hong Kong. So far the ones I have received seem totally legit, but I'm really curious as to why they are NTSC dvds when Hong Kong is on a PAL standard. I was under the impression the only place you can get the NTSC dvds (with the SACDs) was Japan. Anyway, I'm not complaining but very curious. Why would the Hong Kong sellers have these versions that are not compatible with their own country's television standard??

Well, the 2 countries are not that far apart. So they sell each other's stuff, including items from the E.U. Although not so common in this country, in many countries many if not most people have universal DVD players that play both NTSC / PAL and are region free. Many DVD players can be “upgraded” to play this way.

I wouldn’t be surprised if a bunch of NTSC versions started popping up for sale. I bought the first 2 NTSC versions more than a year or so after they were first released, just before the 3rd box was released. And those were supposed to be hard to get for a time – until they got hard to get again. I don’t know if the 3rd box set is a different situation though. Perhaps a lot of Peter Gabriel fans who aren’t necessarily Genesis fans picked up these boxes.

I’ve had very good luck with many sellers from China so far. Very reliable. Although I’ve read that some discs are mislabeled as being something that they are not for one reason or another. But you may want to contact the seller to confirm something is what it supposed to be. I do this all the time so that I don’t receive the wrong item. Many people do not know what a DVD-A or SACD is from a regular audio CD or DVD.

 

[silvahalo007]

I guess this makes sense. Although the discs I'm getting from Hong Kong seem to be made in the E.U. which is also obviously PAL. So these NTSC discs are pressed in a PAL country and shipped to a PAL country. I guess I'm just wondering whom the market for these discs is supposed be since Japan presses their own and the U.S. has it's own version of the Genesis titles (sans SACD sadly). It sort of seems almost like a bootleg situation, but I don't think it is in this case. But that's what got me on to this particular thread.

But perhaps I should stop looking the gift horse in the mouth! I'm just happy to have them with the SACDs!

 

[Bob Squires Jr]

I have the Japanese Genesis set with the NTSC DVDs and SACDs.
I got lucky and got it early from HMV in Japan, reasonable too! ($169.00 US)

I found it odd that in Europe, there were PAL DVD & SACD,
In Japan there were NTSC DVDs and SACDs but in the
good ol' US of A they did NTSC DVD and CD.
What the hell??

Why not sell a Japan / USA / Canada NTSC set here?
Why go through the trouble of a 3rd set with a CD when it wasn't needed?

I'll never figure out the powers that be.

-Bob

 

[soundboy]

I'm getting my Genesis SACD, with NTSC DVDs, from Hong Kong as well. Since I visit HK every few years (I'm originally from HK), my observation is that people there have TVs, DVD players, etc. with both NTSC and PAL standards. The audiophiles (and videophiles) there don't like to be limited to whatever is officially available and will import whatever they like from anywhere in the world. Many electronics manufacturers and software sellers cater to that "need".

 

[silvahalo007]

Thanks for shedding some light, soundboy. I understand better now. Too bad the U.S. is so restrictive and limiting when it comes to such things...