DVD-A hardware woes continued... 😕

[SeeMoreDigital]

The last two King Crimson 5.1 releases from 2019 (The ReconstruKction Of Light & The Power To Believe) and Fripp & The Grid's Leviathan from 2021 were all issued on DVD-A, but for 2022's Exposure reissue they switched over to DVD-V with DTS 96/24 (like the Tull and Ultravox sets). To me, that signaled the true death of the format.

Agreed...

And as I've mentioned in previous topics/threads, the 'future' of disc based media for multi-channel lossless (with or without lossy) music is Blu-ray discs.

The blu-ray disc specification supports way more audio formats including lossless 8-channel LPCM up to 192kHz at 24-bits, the disc authoring tools are widely available. And 25GB BD-R blank media is relatively cheap

 

[AYanguas]

I agree. But there haven't been new DVDA releases for what? 10 yrs? 15yrs?. But I never play those discs. I play the rips.

In addition to the commented recent DVD-A releases of Giancarlo Erra/Tim Bowness, King Crimson and The Grid/Fripp, I cannot forget the album (loved also by my wife):

2021 - The Golden Bonana from our @Mr. Afternoon

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

In addition to the commented recent DVD-A releases of Giancarlo Erra/Tim Bowness, King Crimson and The Grid/Fripp, I cannot forget the album (loved also by my wife):

2021 - The Golden Bonana from our @Mr. Afternoon

Nice one... By the time I discovered its release I missed out on the DVD-A. Hopefully the menu structure looked more professional than the Giancarlo Erra/Tim Bowness efforts

 

[Owen Smith]

The X800 requires pressed media for DVD-A discs, which is all fine and dandy, but that's not all. Proper DVD-A authoring tools, when you select a copy-protection setting, actually puts specific flags and bits and modifies the files to prepare for CPPM encryption at the mastering facility, regardless of whether copy-protection will actually be applied. Without this formatting, which can only be output with something like Sonic DVD-A or DiscWelder, combined with pressed media, the x800 will refuse to play the disc, which is what happened with Giancarlo Erra's 2021 DVD-A, as it was pressed, but authored with software that didn't include these flags.

I'm glad I abandoned my plan to buy an X800 as a backup for my Oppo 203 and just stumped up more cash for a second Oppo 203.

 

[Owen Smith]

Very few... Earlier this year I bought the 'Departure Tapes by Giancarlo Erra' (which was released in 2021) and 'Memories Of Machines by Tim Bowness & Giancarlo Erra' (released in 2022) but the DVD-A authoring is incredibly basic

There were three Rick Wakeman DVD-A/V releases only a handful of years ago.

 

[Owen Smith]

And as I've mentioned in previous topics/threads, the 'future' of disc based media for multi-channel lossless (with or without lossy) music is Blu-ray discs.

The blu-ray disc specification supports way more audio formats including lossless 8-channel LPCM up to 192kHz at 24-bits, the disc authoring tools are widely available. And 25GB BD-R blank media is relatively cheap

I agree Blu-Ray discs are the way forward for multi channel disc based releases. I just wish Dutton Vocalion and Sony Japan would get the message and switch away from damned SACDs.

The problem with BD-R is not the blanks, it's that very few people have writers. Lots of PCs came with DVD writers a few years ago but that never got to the stage of a Blu-Ray writer being standard. My Sony laptop has an internal Blu-Ray writer but it was a top end model and is very overdue for me replacing it.

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

I agree Blu-Ray discs are the way forward for multi channel disc based releases. I just wish Dutton Vocalion and Sony Japan would get the message and switch away from damned SACDs.

The problem with BD-R is not the blanks, it's that very few people have writers. Lots of PCs came with DVD writers a few years ago but that never got to the stage of a Blu-Ray writer being standard. My Sony laptop has an internal Blu-Ray writer but it was a top end model and is very overdue for me replacing it.

The issue is cost. SACDs are far cheaper. DVD-A is even cheaper. At low press quantities that serve the surround community, cost becomes a much bigger factor. One reason why I haven't jumped ship to Blu-ray yet.

 

[Owen Smith]

The issue is cost. SACDs are far cheaper. DVD-A is even cheaper. At low press quantities that serve the surround community, cost becomes a much bigger factor. One reason why I haven't jumped ship to Blu-ray yet.

Have you tried AVCHD which is basically Blu-Ray structure on a DVD? Would that give more options? If you can get DTS HD MA or Dolby TrueHD on AVCHD that would give you hi res lossless multi channel in a format that pretty much all Blu-Ray players will play. You'd have to stick to the DVD max bit rate I suspect but at around 9 megabits that should be fine for hi res lossless multi channel audio provided there is no accompanying video. You might even be able to just use multi channel LPCM if you don't have DTS HD MA or Dolby TrueHD encoding software, though LPCM would probably restrict you to 16/48 to get a full album on given no compression.

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

Have you tried AVCHD which is basically Blu-Ray structure on a DVD? Would that give more options? If you can get DTS HD MA or Dolby TrueHD on AVCHD that would give you hi res lossless multi channel in a format that pretty much all Blu-Ray players will play. You'd have to stick to the DVD max bit rate I suspect but at around 9 megabits that should be fine for hi res lossless multi channel audio provided there is no accompanying video. You might even be able to just use multi channel LPCM if you don't have DTS HD MA or Dolby TrueHD encoding software, though LPCM would probably restrict you to 16/48 to get a full album on given no compression.

Here's the thing, you also have to consider playback capabilities...SACD would work on the most amount of devices, and following behind, DVD-A. AVCHD discs have less support than Blu-ray.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

Here's the thing, you also have to consider playback capabilities...SACD would work on the most amount of devices, and following behind, DVD-A. AVCHD discs have less support than Blu-ray.

Surely, the majority of people who want play surround sound disc based content in 2023 will now have a Blu-ray disc player to either go with their other surround sound capable disc players or replace their other surround sound capable disc players in the form of a universal disc player?

Maybe a forum survey is required?

 

[Owen Smith]

Surely, the majority of people who want play surround sound disc based content in 2023 will now have a Blu-ray disc player to either go with their other surround sound capable disc players or replace their other surround sound capable disc players in the form of a universal disc player?

That was my thought too, anyone that wants to play multi channel music will have bought a Blu-Ray player at some point during the last 10 or more years.

As for SACD players, they're becoming harder to buy and getting a universal player that supports SACD is getting even harder (just one model from Sony). Whereas plain old Blu-Ray players there are still quite a few options.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

That was my thought too, anyone that wants to play multi channel music will have bought a Blu-Ray player at some point during the last 10 or more years.

Lol... I 'obtained' my first Blu-ray disc player (and HD DVD player) way back in 2007

EDIT: Just checked... It was a Panasonic DMP-BD10 test sample model.

 

[DuncanS]

The X800 requires pressed media for DVD-A discs, which is all fine and dandy, but that's not all. Proper DVD-A authoring tools, when you select a copy-protection setting, actually puts specific flags and bits and modifies the files to prepare for CPPM encryption at the mastering facility, regardless of whether copy-protection will actually be applied. Without this formatting, which can only be output with something like Sonic DVD-A or DiscWelder, combined with pressed media, the x800 will refuse to play the disc, which is what happened with Giancarlo Erra's 2021 DVD-A, as it was pressed, but authored with software that didn't include these flags.

I tested this in DVD-V so DD/DTS with a Panasonic BD, and as a DVD-A with an Oppo 103/203 but I didn't have a Sony, but I have recently got one, so I thought I'd try it.

I'm playing this with a Sony X800MkII set-up for Multi-channel DVD-A play, with no issues, it auto plays when the disc is inserted - which Sony have you got?

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

I tested this in DVD-V so DD/DTS with a Panasonic BD, and as a DVD-A with an Oppo 103/203 but I didn't have a Sony, but I have recently got one, so I thought I'd try it.

I'm playing this with a Sony X800MkII set-up for Multi-channel DVD-A play, with no issues, it auto plays when the disc is inserted - which Sony have you got?

Interesting, I heard from otherwise from people. Are you certain it's playing the MLP stream?

 

[DuncanS]

Interesting, I heard from otherwise from people. Are you certain it's playing the MLP stream?

Yes, I checked. Just reloaded and double checked!

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

Yes, I checked. Just reloaded and double checked!
View attachment 98124

Guess I'm wrong! So then, the disc format is the only requirement...however without those flags it is reportedly out-of-spec. Well, not that it matters if it works...

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

@Mr. Afternoon

It looks like you'll have to get yourself a Sony UBP-X800M2 now - Before Sony pull the plug on them...

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

@Mr. Afternoon

It looks like you'll have to get yourself a Sony UBP-X800M2 now - Before Sony pull the plug on them...

I don't need it! I have a PC with a licensed DVD-A software player! Well, maybe if I need 4K Blu-ray playback...

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

I don't need it! I have a PC with a licensed DVD-A software player! Well, maybe if I need 4K Blu-ray playback...

It's always useful to have a back-up player

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

It's always useful to have a back-up player

True...but when you have a PC with a DVD drive, it does the job. Especially since DVD drives are so ubiquitous.