DVD-A project skipping at Track Points

[Neb-Maat-Re]

Hi. I hope someone can give me some advice about an issue I am having with my current project, a continuous piece of music to which I am adding Track Points. I have created a continuous file in the form of a "long MLP".

The issue is that that the DVD-A I create skips at the track points I add to the long MLP in DiscWelder. Not a gap, but a noticeable skip or stutter.

I am not having the same issue with the DVD-V version. That plays through the chapter points smoothly. I burnt a test DVD-A of the MLP without track points and it played smoothly through, so doesn't appear to be a problem with the source file.

I have custom DVD-As created by others, and these have never caused an issue with my player.

There is the option of just not including track points, but it would be a poor compromise.

Any suggestions on what could be causing the skips or how to fix the issue?

 

[0tto]

not sure do i got your problem correctly, but from what i understand it seems like time,
stated in your track points differ from real time of the gap between the tracks in single sound track.

 

[Neb-Maat-Re]

Thanks for that thought, Otto.

In theory, I have the tranisitions timed to the milli-second.

 

[mandrix]

The DVDA's that other folks made, were they created with one long track split into track points?
Reason I ask is some (usually older) players have problems with pausing at track points. But if the DVDA was created with separate tracks the pause is not noticeable.
I had a Samsung that would pause at track points, and the early Creative software player would do the same for me.

 

[floydflush]

Yes, first you have to check it on another DVD-A player.
Then: Is this your first DVD-A on which you use a long wave file for further splitting with track points?
Personally I do work with Disc Welder only and all my DVD-As work fine on any DVD-A player and I've done a lot with track points.
Anyway good luck and feel free to post a message.

 

[Neb-Maat-Re]

Thanks, boondocks and floydflush.

Yes, mine is an old player (2002 vintage) and this is my first long MLP project (well, 2 projects, actually). It's the only player to which I have access, but it sounds like that might be the problem.

The other option was to try gapless individual MLPs on an upgraded version of the software. Unfortunately, I have not been able to get the upgraded software to compile a disc that will play properly. The discs complied on the gapless capable software play for a few seconds then skip several minutes, play a few seconds then skip to the transition. I haven't been able to test whether the transition is gapless!

 

[floydflush]

Another way to find out the cause would be to check it with a self-made DVD-A (made from someone else - with DiscWelder!).
If you haven't any, my last two Emerson Lake & Palmer conversions are partially made with track points on DiscWelder.
How to get them will be specified in a private message to not violate the rules in here.

 

[mandrix]

Having an older player could very well be the problem.
Either try breaking up the one long track into individual tracks or as floyd says check out one of his DVDA that you know was made with one continuous track w/track points.
I have had two older Samsungs ( HD-841 & HD 941) and both had this problem.
My Oppo's (971 & BDP-80) don't have a problem with my DiscWelder projects, although I tend to use AVCHD mostly of late for purely music discs.

 

[holland123]

it is not necessarily the older player but that the player may just be a pos, samsungs, toshibas (which is a samsung build), some panasonics, some jvcs all have these sort of problems, marantz,pioneer,onkyo,denon and of course the oppo are much better builds and do not have these issues, of course unless they have been abused.

 

[Neb-Maat-Re]

Another way to find out the cause would be to check it with a self-made DVD-A (made from someone else - with DiscWelder!).
If you haven't any, my last two Emerson Lake & Palmer conversions are partially made with track points on DiscWelder.
How to get them will be specified in a private message to not violate the rules in here.

Thanks for that - will try on the weekend.

 

[Neb-Maat-Re]

it is not necessarily the older player but that the player may just be a pos, samsungs, toshibas (which is a samsung build), some panasonics, some jvcs all have these sort of problems, marantz,pioneer,onkyo,denon and of course the oppo are much better builds and do not have these issues, of course unless they have been abused.

Yeah, mine is a no-name local re-badge out of China (BBK or something similar), so anything is possible.

 

[0tto]

discwelder upon compiling DVDA do not alter audio streams. actually doing nothing to it, just pack it into .aob files as it is.
all information about navigation, track list, time duration, track points, visual, etc. is stored in .ifo and .bup files. BBK brand
famous for their workability and not really picky about correctness of DVDA architecture. just like OPPO.
thus in this light i would advice to check blank media you use to burn image file.
could be problem with them or DVD writer. as was said above, try to burn any other homemade DVDA. if problem persist, you'll
know where is issue.

 

[mandrix]

After some recent correspondence around the net it seems even newer players sometimes have problems with media, so that's certainly a valid concern as Otto says.
I have been using Verbatim DVD5 's for a long time and for me at least they have been trouble free. I've had universal players (non BD) that liked DVD -R better than DVD + R as well from some manufacturers.
These days it's hard for me to tell who makes what brand without scanning the physical media, and I noticed the last large batch of Verbatim I bought were made at a different plant.

 

[neil wilkes]

Hi. I hope someone can give me some advice about an issue I am having with my current project, a continuous piece of music to which I am adding Track Points. I have created a continuous file in the form of a "long MLP".

The issue is that that the DVD-A I create skips at the track points I add to the long MLP in DiscWelder. Not a gap, but a noticeable skip or stutter.

I am not having the same issue with the DVD-V version. That plays through the chapter points smoothly. I burnt a test DVD-A of the MLP without track points and it played smoothly through, so doesn't appear to be a problem with the source file.

I have custom DVD-As created by others, and these have never caused an issue with my player.

There is the option of just not including track points, but it would be a poor compromise.

Any suggestions on what could be causing the skips or how to fix the issue?

I'd say with 99% certainty this is a glitch in the player firmware.
It's caused by the player emptying the buffer at the track point despite it being set to gapless (which should BTW happen automatically in Chrome).
If not the player firmware (and test this by playing any live DVD-A, which will show it up easily) then the seamless flag is not being set properly in Chrome.

There is a similar bug in DVD-Video authoring package "DVD-Lab Pro" as well, in Audio-Only titles.
When using one of these in DLP, make certain that if you need seamless playback to edit the title in PGCEdit or you will get glitches.

The reason it is most likely firmware is the use of the single contiguous file should prevent the player buffers getting emptied.
Those with the decoder bug will always obey the flag & ignore the stream headers (silly, but there you go)

 

[Neb-Maat-Re]

Thanks again for everyone's responses. All contributions have been appreciated.

I always use Verbatim media and have been trying DVD-RW and DVD+RW for my test discs.

I did realise that I was actually putting the Track Point at the end of the previous track instead of the start of the next. Not sure what a 1 milli-second change would do, but I went through and changed it anyway. It did seem to make a minor improvement on some of the tranistions, but didn't really solve the issue for the whole project.

I tried floydflush's release, thanks for that. I found the first transition had a very small, momentary dip/skip/stutter in the sound but that the second transition was at a clear change in the music and I couldn't detect a problem. If all my transition issues were as minor as the first one on floydflush's release I would probably go with it, but they seem to vary. Could be an issue with the source files, but then discs created from the same source without Track Points play seamlessly.

I think the issue must be the player. Given it's age and generic origins I am unlikely to find a firmware update unless I can find it's true manufacturer. The Australian distributor seems to have gone out of business.

I wish there was a PGCEdit like solution for DVD-Audio - I have had even less success creating gapless discs using separate files with 2.0.30 than I have with track points using 2.0.6.

Most of my spare time over the next two weeks will be dedicated to an important job application - I'll return to these two projects after that.

 

[neil wilkes]

T
I wish there was a PGCEdit like solution for DVD-Audio - I have had even less success creating gapless discs using separate files with 2.0.30 than I have with track points using 2.0.6.

Er, one question.....how do you honestly expect to get gapless playback with separate files?????
What you need to do, if using separate files, is to add in 2 seconds of silence at the head of eavch track to give the decoders time to lock down on the stream & start passing audio.
Gapless playback is for contiguous streams that contain track points. Individual tracks cannot be set to gapless (or continuous as sonic call it) as they are, well, separate.

 

[Neb-Maat-Re]

Er, one question.....how do you honestly expect to get gapless playback with separate files?????

Honestly, I was lead to believe this is what the "Gapless" function of 2.0.30 was meant to achieve. I may have been given incorrect advice on this point.

 

[neil wilkes]

Honestly, I was lead to believe this is what the "Gapless" function of 2.0.30 was meant to achieve. I may have been given incorrect advice on this point.

Sadly, this seems to be player dependant.
True, it is supposed to work that way but.......the best way is to use a single contiguous stream.
If that also glitches going over the track point then it is definitely the player at fault.
If it plays properly, then you found a Chrome bug!

If there is a flag set to play files seamlessly, the player should honour it. But they do not always do so......I have a Cambridge Audio 540 Azur that does this too.

 

[Neb-Maat-Re]

Thanks, Neil. I've pretty much already abandoned 2.0.30 because of the quality of disc it compiles.

When I compile a disc with 2.0.6 the disc can be fast-forwarded and reversed pretty much the same way a CD can. This makes it easy to check the transition points without sitting through the whole disc.

When I compile a disc with 2.0.30 then the disc does not fast-forward or reverse smoothly, it skips in 4 to 5 minute jumps or simply skips to the next transition point like using the skip forward/reverse button. This means sitting through the whole disc in real time just to test the transition points. It also means sitting watching the timings and not being distracted - something not always available to me in my household.

I will persist with the contiguous stream and track points. If I can get them so the effect is minimal, it probably means that there wouldn't be a problem on other players. I've just discovered that one of the other fathers on school council has two Oppos, so may have an opportunity to test there.