Frampton: Come Alive for You?

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Eggplant

1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Aug 18, 2003
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Just picked it up yesterday at Tower, the only retailer making any effort to actually stock new SACDs on street date (at full price, natch). Came home too late last night to give it a proper blasting, will unwrap soon. Like to compare notes.

Anybody else get this yet? Thoughts?
 
eggplant said:
Just picked it up yesterday at Tower, the only retailer making any effort to actually stock new SACDs on street date (at full price, natch). Came home too late last night to give it a proper blasting, will unwrap soon. Like to compare notes.

Anybody else get this yet? Thoughts?

I also bought it yesterday (at Best Buy) and popped it in to see just to hear how it sounded so I didn't listen as intently as I normally woudl have. The first thing that stuck me though was a lack of bass. I had my sub up at 10 on my receiver so I should have had plenty of bass to spare. The actual mix sounded pretty good though. Crowd in the back (real crowd not just ambience)with ambience of the hall. Sounded nice and full but I will have to wait for a little additonal listening to make my final call.
 
Bob Romano said:
I also bought it yesterday (at Best Buy) and popped it in to see just to hear how it sounded so I didn't listen as intently as I normally woudl have. The first thing that stuck me though was a lack of bass. I had my sub up at 10 on my receiver so I should have had plenty of bass to spare. The actual mix sounded pretty good though. Crowd in the back (real crowd not just ambience)with ambience of the hall. Sounded nice and full but I will have to wait for a little additonal listening to make my final call.

Bob, Have u had a chance to take a further listen??? Just curious if this is really worth getting. I have the "Deluxe" stereo version and when played through a theatre/hall dsp surround setting it sounds quite good to me. If the SACD is just crowd in the surrounds I may pass on this. Appreciate your thoughts......
Tim
 
timw said:
Bob, Have u had a chance to take a further listen??? Just curious if this is really worth getting. I have the "Deluxe" stereo version and when played through a theatre/hall dsp surround setting it sounds quite good to me. If the SACD is just crowd in the surrounds I may pass on this. Appreciate your thoughts......
Tim

I listened a little more closely and while I think it sounds really good, I am not sure if it was worth repurchasing again (4th time for me). I don't notice THAT much added clarity and the mix is not agressive at all. If you already own the deluxe edition I would try it through DPLII first. It doesn't sound that much different to me.
 
timw said:
Just curious if this is really worth getting. If the SACD is just crowd in the surrounds I may pass on this.

My advice: skip it.

Not only is it only crowd/ambience in the rears, the mix is subpar. Sounds more 1970's than the album (how is that possible?). Used to think the original stereo was one of the few clear live albums -- listening to this I can't imagine why. The "tour de force" track -- Do You Feel Like We Do -- is so muddy at the climax you can't hear anything but the guitars -- the keyboard nearly disappears.

No need for me to listen to this again.
 
That's a real dissapointment to read..

It's one of the "one hit wonders" I wanted to try in multi-channel.

:rolleyes:
 
I had it in my hands at BB the other day, then put it back. I was never a fan of the record when it came out, so I figured I would let it stay on the shelf.
 
I had a chance to listen to this a bit last night and I really like it. Of course the mix isn't going to be very aggresive, it's a live recording for crying-out-loud! However, it is a very natural-sounding and very clean live recording. I get a real sense of space and "being there". The "space" is not artificial at all. I quite enjoyed what I heard (about half of the first disc) and I can't wait to listen to the rest of it!
 
Cai Campbell said:
I had a chance to listen to this a bit last night and I really like it. Of course the mix isn't going to be very aggresive, it's a live recording for crying-out-loud! However, it is a very natural-sounding and very clean live recording. I get a real sense of space and "being there". The "space" is not artificial at all. I quite enjoyed what I heard (about half of the first disc) and I can't wait to listen to the rest of it!

Agreed, it's a live recording. And the new Frampton Surround SACD does a good job of painting that picture.
 
Don't get me wrong... I like it too. I just don't think it's a huge improvement over playing my stereo cd through DPLII. It does sound really nice though.
 
Well, I had a chance to listen to the Frampton Comes Alive SACD some more last night and I discovered something that I found quite troubling. Here we are, in the middle of a debate about the center channel and what purpose it can and should serve, or whether the center channel is needed at all, and along comes a title that can be pointed to as the poster child for everything that is bad about the center channel. That's right, the application of the center channel in Frampton Comes Alive is a travesty.

The first thing I really noticed about this title is that it has a wonderful sense of space. However, upon extended listening, something about the front soundstage really started to bother me. It then became apparent that the center channel is being used to provide/enhance depth in the recording. It is a dedicated ambience channel. I've never heard the center channel used like this before.

The two front main speakers sound like they were mixed right off the sound board, with none to very little hall ambience. The stereo pair sounds clean, with exceptional imaging and presence. It sounds a lot like the classic stereo recording that became a mega-seller.

The center channel sounds like it was recorded off a microphone placed somewhere out in the concert hall. It is pure ambience, with muddy vocals, echoing instruments, and colliding sounds from all over the place. It does a lot to add a realistic sense of space to the recording, but as a dedicated element, it really becomes problematic.

The main problem is that this dedicated, muddy sounding, ambient track is placed right between a clean stereo pair. The center channel should enhance or support the front stereo image. This track does the exact opposite. It totally destroys the front image. It castrates the stereo pair. It is total oil and water. The two just don't mix.

Don't believe me? Try a couple of experiments. Sit down and listen to the disc for a while (any track, they're all treated equally). Now, disconnect your center speaker. Don't down-mix to four channels or anything (I'll talk about that in a minute) just disconnect the center speaker. Now see if you can notice a difference.

What I noticed when I did this is that the front image immediately snapped into place. Gone was the muddy, disjointed and inconsistent image I was hearing before. In its place was a nice, clean, spot-on stereo image with NOTHING missing. That's right, the center channel is completely redundant. You won't miss a thing, except there will be a lessened sense of space. However, a mutilated front soundstage is much too high a price to pay for an "enhanced" sense of space.

Alright, now here's another experiment to try. Most players allow you to down-mix the center channel to the front mains, so that people without a center channel won't miss anything. Listen to the disc in 5.1 for a while then down-mix to 4.1 and listen to the difference.

When I did this, I noticed that the soundstage immediately imploded into a muddy mess with no imaging at all. This was the absolute worst scenario.

For this recording to sound right, I totally insist that the center channel be eliminated. After doing this, I think the recording sounds absolutely brilliant in every conceivable way.

The dedicated "center channel for ambience" was an interesting but ultimately misguided notion. There is no way that the center channel should ever be employed in this manner! Maintaining the integrity of the front soundstage should be number one priority when addressing the center channel, and any application that deviates from this mandate should be nixed immediately!

Still, this channel of information is interesting, and I can see why they had a desire to do something with it. I'm really glad they didn't mix it in with the mains to spread the ambience across the front. That would have destroyed the brilliance inherent in the mains as they are. Rather than throw the channel in the middle, which is what they did, I wonder what this channel would sound like suspended overhead? This would ensure that it does not destroy the stereo image and would still provide for that enhanced sense of space. I'm not industrious enough to try it myself, but it is an intriguing thought, eh?
 
Thanks for the heads up Cai.

I turned my center off, and you are absolutely right. The whole recording came alive (and isn't that the way it's supposed to be :) )

The ambient center channel is also used on the Shania Twain up SACD (although nowhere near as much). On the Shania disc the center channel is very quiet (almost unnoticable).

I am really surprised by the mix on Frampton because it was mixed by Chuck Ainley, who has kind of been against mixing the center channel in the first place. He mixed Frampton's Live in Detroit DVD and there is no center channel at all.
 
I can't wait to try this at home tonight. I will say that this release does offer the original running order of songs plus some extra songs left off the original. If you have the MOFI version, the SACD may not be enough of an improvement to upgrade.
 
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