Mr. Hookup
Active Member
Isn't it amazing that everytime we review a new Blu Ray Music release, we have ratings from about 5 to 10. We happen to have a very smart bunch of people here on this forum. Why then is there such a discrepency between the praises and the complaints? After all, we are all listening to the same music, right? We rate the group performance, the Surround mix, the bass or LFE, etc. How is it that there is such a range from Great to terrible? Rating the performance is more understandable, then the other ratings IMHO. What some people really like about the performance, and what others believe is maybe mediocre or worse yet, is hard to understand. I've seen some rate the bass as too much all the way down to almost non existant. How can that be?
I think in terms of the Surround mix, alot of it has to do with the individual Surround System that people are evaluating it with. Those systems could be anywhere from terrible to great and anywhere in between. They might also be because of the following reasons: Using the wrong cables, Not having done setup & tweaking properly, the quality or lack of in terms of the various speakers, subwoofers, etc. The classes that I have taken at Cedia from the masters indicate the following: Generally, one Subwoofer is not sufficient in a Theatre environment. Quality of Speakers & subs vary greatly. In 5.1 systems & greater, it is extremely important that all 5 or more speakers are exactly the same (not just the same manufacturers; not using a center channel speaker). Also, the front and rear speakers should be exactly the same. According to the experts at Cedia, they need to be all exactly the same. period. Therefore 5.1 packages or greater should not have a different Center channel speaker; but rather, all should be the same exactly. I realize that this will create quite a stir amongst our members. You might argue against this, or not believe it altogeather. I didn't make this up; experts generally will tell you this. Also, the related electronics is equally important ( The A/V Receiver). Now I have my own quirky way of doing things. I personally prefer to use HDMI for picture only. I prefer to use Digital Optical (toslink) cable for audio. One reason is that one might encounter the situation where the voices do not match the mouths moving. There are various reasons why this happens. I don't care to go into it here now.
I will give you one example: Mojo Blu Ray from Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers. This disc has been widely discussed, rated, picked apart, etc. Everyone has an opinion. I would say first that TP is a big proponent of great Surround Sound, along with the heartbreakers & Ryan Ulyate, who created the surround mix here. Like it, or hate it, I think once you understand why Ryan did what he did, you will come to an agreement. Are there wilder surround mixes out there? Sure, but is that always the best way to do it? No. Great thought & decision went into the surround mix on this disc. The hell with what you think about the cover & packaging. Don't like it, change it. Is it the most agressive? No. The recording was done at thje Clubhouse which is the Heartbreakers' rehersal space.The surround mixing took place at Ryans Studio in his house in Topanga, California. (two separate processes). Ryan says that when you are in the room where the recording took place, you are about 25 ft. in front of the band. The wall behind you is about 25 ft behind. The drums, bass, guitar amps are in front of you while Benmont's keyboards are off to the side. Sound is bouncing off the back wall & the bass is prominent. Ryan said that the focus was to be in front of you. He wanted the vocals to come from the front as well. The "odd moment of surprise" would come from the surrounds. Mike's guitar is on the left, Tom's guitar is in the center and Scott's guitar & harmonica is on the right.Benmonts keyboards eminatate from the center & the surrounds. This is how it sounds naturally in the Clubhouse. Some mikes on the back wall create liveliness & ambiance to the mix. Steve's drums bounce off the back walls. Delay was added to the surround speakers. Mike's guitar comes out of a vintage Fender deluxe amp & Fender Princeton. He also used a Fender Leslie (spinning speakers). 2 mikes were used. Mikes 2 main amps are on the left. The Fender Leslie is across the left & right rears. As Tom finishes a line, it washes over you & repeats in the surrounds. WOW! I included this here simply because once you realise how much of Tom & Ryan's thought process worked, you will then realize why they did what they did. Some of you picked them apart for the way they created the surround mix; you should now realize what goes into it. It's just not as simple as you may think. It's not about just creating the most bass, the most energy out of the rears, etc. This is a very creative process from the Recording thru the surround mixing. Go with it. When listening to it, I recommend that you close your eyes and try to realize where each sound is coming from precisely. If it doesn't sound like that to you; you probably need a new or different surround system, or you need a Pro to set it up properly for you. If you are a Pro, you need to go back to school! All of these intricate things happened the way Tom & Ryan envisioned it to be. If you don't like that; listen to something else like Linkin Park Reanimation in DVD Audio/ Dolby Surround Digital. The sound flies all around so much, you will probably get dizzy and fall off your chair like the kids do. If that's what floats your boat; go for it. The music is secondary, the surround effects are the most important for Linkin Park. To each his own.
I think in terms of the Surround mix, alot of it has to do with the individual Surround System that people are evaluating it with. Those systems could be anywhere from terrible to great and anywhere in between. They might also be because of the following reasons: Using the wrong cables, Not having done setup & tweaking properly, the quality or lack of in terms of the various speakers, subwoofers, etc. The classes that I have taken at Cedia from the masters indicate the following: Generally, one Subwoofer is not sufficient in a Theatre environment. Quality of Speakers & subs vary greatly. In 5.1 systems & greater, it is extremely important that all 5 or more speakers are exactly the same (not just the same manufacturers; not using a center channel speaker). Also, the front and rear speakers should be exactly the same. According to the experts at Cedia, they need to be all exactly the same. period. Therefore 5.1 packages or greater should not have a different Center channel speaker; but rather, all should be the same exactly. I realize that this will create quite a stir amongst our members. You might argue against this, or not believe it altogeather. I didn't make this up; experts generally will tell you this. Also, the related electronics is equally important ( The A/V Receiver). Now I have my own quirky way of doing things. I personally prefer to use HDMI for picture only. I prefer to use Digital Optical (toslink) cable for audio. One reason is that one might encounter the situation where the voices do not match the mouths moving. There are various reasons why this happens. I don't care to go into it here now.
I will give you one example: Mojo Blu Ray from Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers. This disc has been widely discussed, rated, picked apart, etc. Everyone has an opinion. I would say first that TP is a big proponent of great Surround Sound, along with the heartbreakers & Ryan Ulyate, who created the surround mix here. Like it, or hate it, I think once you understand why Ryan did what he did, you will come to an agreement. Are there wilder surround mixes out there? Sure, but is that always the best way to do it? No. Great thought & decision went into the surround mix on this disc. The hell with what you think about the cover & packaging. Don't like it, change it. Is it the most agressive? No. The recording was done at thje Clubhouse which is the Heartbreakers' rehersal space.The surround mixing took place at Ryans Studio in his house in Topanga, California. (two separate processes). Ryan says that when you are in the room where the recording took place, you are about 25 ft. in front of the band. The wall behind you is about 25 ft behind. The drums, bass, guitar amps are in front of you while Benmont's keyboards are off to the side. Sound is bouncing off the back wall & the bass is prominent. Ryan said that the focus was to be in front of you. He wanted the vocals to come from the front as well. The "odd moment of surprise" would come from the surrounds. Mike's guitar is on the left, Tom's guitar is in the center and Scott's guitar & harmonica is on the right.Benmonts keyboards eminatate from the center & the surrounds. This is how it sounds naturally in the Clubhouse. Some mikes on the back wall create liveliness & ambiance to the mix. Steve's drums bounce off the back walls. Delay was added to the surround speakers. Mike's guitar comes out of a vintage Fender deluxe amp & Fender Princeton. He also used a Fender Leslie (spinning speakers). 2 mikes were used. Mikes 2 main amps are on the left. The Fender Leslie is across the left & right rears. As Tom finishes a line, it washes over you & repeats in the surrounds. WOW! I included this here simply because once you realise how much of Tom & Ryan's thought process worked, you will then realize why they did what they did. Some of you picked them apart for the way they created the surround mix; you should now realize what goes into it. It's just not as simple as you may think. It's not about just creating the most bass, the most energy out of the rears, etc. This is a very creative process from the Recording thru the surround mixing. Go with it. When listening to it, I recommend that you close your eyes and try to realize where each sound is coming from precisely. If it doesn't sound like that to you; you probably need a new or different surround system, or you need a Pro to set it up properly for you. If you are a Pro, you need to go back to school! All of these intricate things happened the way Tom & Ryan envisioned it to be. If you don't like that; listen to something else like Linkin Park Reanimation in DVD Audio/ Dolby Surround Digital. The sound flies all around so much, you will probably get dizzy and fall off your chair like the kids do. If that's what floats your boat; go for it. The music is secondary, the surround effects are the most important for Linkin Park. To each his own.
