Mono -> Surround (4.0, 5.1, 7.1.4 etc.) Upmixing

[kfbkfb]

This may be a little OT, but it was inspired by this post:

Surround mix style - what do you prefer? | Page 3 | QuadraphonicQuad
^^^
...5.1 immersive soundtrack derived from the original mono...


Is this type of upmixing technology restricted to the
Professional realm or is Consumer software available
to do Mono -> Surround upmixing?


Kirk Bayne

 

[HomerJAU]

I upmixed a mono track to stereo which sounded ok. It was a the only mon track on a stereo album I wanted to upmix.

I used Izotope Ozone Imager to create a stereo stream which Penteo Pro 16 upmixed to quad. Both these programs can be purchased by anyone.

The trick was to get a stereo version of the mono file. Once you have a stereoized version then any upmixing technique would work.

 

[zeerround]

My two cents would be the best approach might include music source separation, maybe in combination with traditional upmix tools.

My understanding is that source separation has largely replaced the spectral editing tools that people used for this in the past, which were VERY labor intensive.

That would get you Vocals, Bass, Drums, and "Other" (and depending on the tool, maybe Piano as well), that could be placed / mixed in different channels.

Stereo imagers could be used at that point, and the results upmixed into a 5.1, giving you some of the above in 5.1 to mix in.

That's what I've been doing in my stereo or 4.0/5.1 to 7.1.4 up/remixs.

Re: mono to stereo imagers, I've never tried (or have forgotten) the Ozone imager but in the past these all worked with offset comb filters to create the left and right from mono. It gives the sense of stereo, but there also a "phase pressure" affect that can be ear fatiguing. Also you have to be careful with other mixing steps after.

I learned that the hard way using an Orban Stereo Synthesizer in the 80's, to remix some Jazz I recorded, for broadcast on the local public radio station (where I worked). It sounded great in stereo, but those listening in mono called to ask what happened to the vocals. Sure enough, listening in mono the vocals were almost non existent. My fault, and a good learning experience as a music engineer/producer.

But in general mono to stereo/remix is whole hobby in itself, with some very active people in it. I can ask my remixing friend for links to mono to stereo remixing communities if you are interested.

 

[humprof]

Andrew Rose does something like this with his "ambient stereo" versions of mono recordings on his Pristine Classical label, no?

https://www.pristineclassical.com/pages/xr-remastering
https://www.pristineclassical.com/pages/ambient-stereo

 

[kfbkfb]

But in general mono to stereo/remix is whole hobby in itself, with some very active people in it. I can ask my remixing friend for links to mono to stereo remixing communities if you are interested.

I was interested in how mono content could be used to create surround sound, but I don't have any mono content that I want to convert.


Kirk Bayne

 

[zeerround]

Yeah ambiance extraction is another approach I forgot to mention. There is an option for that in SpecWeb, but of course in the context of stereo.

In a nutshell you look for sounds that are out of phase with what seems to be the "main" sounds. Very loosely related to all the matrix decoders (but again those are in a stereo context).

 

[par4ken]

I just like to listen to mono via multiple speakers, the more the better.

I remember hearing one or two albums that were synthesized from mono back in the day that didn't sound too bad. All the rest weren't worth bothering with (stereo wise at least) they still sounded like mono.

 

[kfbkfb]

https://worldradiohistory.com/Archi...idelity/70s/High-Fidelity-1976-05.pdf#page=69^^^
There is a mathematical process called "deconvolution," which-in principle-can separate, say, the first oboes from the second oboes, even though they are placed side by side.


I just remembered this HF issue, anyone know if the above mentioned audio processing technology exists in 2020?


Kirk Bayne

 

[zeerround]

That would be under the topic of “music source separation”, and in 2020 the best technology for that is Artificial Intelligence.

 

[kfbkfb]

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...from-electronically-reprocessed-stereo.32225/
https://www.discogs.com/master/80048-Harry-Belafonte-Calypso?image=11933186.SW1hZ2U6MzQwNDA0Mjg=

Might be of historical interest - RCA invented Electronically Reprocessed Stereo.


Kirk Bayne

 

[MidiMagic]

Sometimes when I make mixdiscs to play in the car, I place a delay/reverb mix out of phase into the mono recording.

 

[ssully]

Star Wars sound maestro Ben Burtt did a pretty impressive job of creating mono-->surround for the BluRay of the 1953 classic War of the Worlds

https://musingsofamiddleagedgeek.bl...s-lovingly-remastered-war-of-the-worlds-1953/

 

[aludra]

Thank you so much for alerting me of this update to one of my favorite sci-fi's of all time....All the work that was done to the restoration both on the Film and audio is an amazing read! Just ordered it and cant wait to check it out!

 

[ssully]

You won't be disappointed. It is a superlative restoration (unless you're the kind who insists on seeing the piano wires holding up the Martian ships. )

Make sure to check out the bonus content about how it was restored.

 

[Wunlow]

The 1953 remix (partially sourced from D/M/E tracks) sounds good but note it also includes new sound effects. If you're not too familiar with the mix this may not be a concern, but is worth mentioning.

 

[Wunlow]

The War of the Worlds Criterion Blu-ray also offers the original mono track while the AU R4 release from Imprint accidentally had their mono mix being a downmix of the latest remix.

 

[ssully]

The 1953 remix (partially sourced from D/M/E tracks) sounds good but note it also includes new sound effects. If you're not too familiar with the mix this may not be a concern, but is worth mentioning.

The new sound effects were lovingly re-created by reference to the sound and methods of the originals (Burtt had a library of the originals) , and this fan of the movie since childhood heard no concerning difference.

 

[kfbkfb]

Based on your comments and link, I ordered the (53) WotW on Blu-ray too ($20 Amazon), the improved picture & sound quality of the DVD as compared to the VHS made the movie more involving for me, it'll be interesting to compare the old DVD to the remastered Blu-ray.


Kirk Bayne

 

[MidiMagic]

The 53 WotW lets you see the CBS Field-Sequential color TV system, which was the first color TV system approved by the FCC.

Imagine: All of our TV sets could have had spinning color wheels and different scanning frequencies if the Korean War hadn't reactivated the National Production Administration and its War Production Board.

The WPB required a halt to all color TV production until the end of the Korean War.

This gave RCA time to develop fully compatible color (what we had in the US from 1954 until 2007).

The CBS system was not very good and it could not be adjusted for color reproduction. But it didn't help that the CBS system was also not synced with the movie cameras when they made the movie.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

The 53 WotW lets you see the CBS Field-Sequential color TV system, which was the first color TV system approved by the FCC.

Imagine: All of our TV sets could have had spinning color wheels and different scanning frequencies if the Korean War hadn't reactivated the National Production Administration and its War Production Board.

The WPB required a halt to all color TV production until the end of the Korean War.

This gave RCA time to develop fully compatible color (what we had in the US from 1954 until 2007).

The CBS system was not very good and it could not be adjusted for color reproduction. But it didn't help that the CBS system was also not synced with the movie cameras when they made the movie.

Well thanks to this thread I've just placed an order for the new improved 1953 WotW. And I will certainly be on the look out for the CBS color TV you mentioned. That is quite a good catch.

I think it is interesting that the CBS color method lasted well into the 90's in the form of the Kodak VCNA:

It had a 4" monochrome CRT with an RGB spinning wheel in front of it. Kodak experimented intensively with color CRT's & found them lacking in requirements for photography. I never used one in a production basis, but I did all the tweaks & daily analysis of paper emulsions, control strips, chem monitoring and of course adjusting the VCNA so it all came together.