New Emotiva Atmos PrePro

[LuvMyQuad]

I keep looking at this pre pro.
I just ordered Apple 4k TV streamer so I can try out the streaming stuff.
Against my better judgement, I feel a need to try out some real Atmos at some point.

I don't plan on going with anything that is TOTL electronics anymore. It just doesn't stay TOTL for long enough.

I have been using an Emotiva UMC-200 for a while now. The existing room correction has been done with REW and imported into the UMC-200. There actually is a REW driver for the UMC-200... go figure.

The UMC-200 is not top of the line, but for the money, its tough to beat for a 5.1 system. And it retains the all important MC analog inputs.

Tonewinner was the source of the UMC-200 as they are with this new MC1 Atmos unit. In both cases Emotiva had the base unit modded to their spec and rebadged. The MC1 is the Emotiva version of the Tonewinner AT-300. From what I can tell, an extra $400 will buy balanced outputs on the AT-300. But with those come Chinese labeling on the back, and some shmaltzy "professional" moniker on the front. And most importantly, no true US based presence. like Emotiva has. There may be other differences that I dont know about yet.

We can talk about it, but the balanced outputs aren't important to me. My amp is 1 shelf below my pre pro. Not a long distance. The Emotiva does have balanced outputs for the subs.

Lets talk money. It costs $1k. It comes with a 20% credit in Emobucks. The credit can be used to flesh out the height channels, either an amp or the ceiling speakers themselves.

If I get one I'd love to forward it to Audio Science Review for a test. Just to see.

I know there have been bumps with firmware at Emotiva. But my UMC-200 had no issues. I think its a great piece. My plan would be to keep it in the system as a separate source, just for those MC inputs. The UMC-200 also has an AM/FM tuner that the MC units lack. Some of us old timers still use that occasionally.

But then.... looming.... are the Pioneer/Onkyo AVRs with all that connectivity and pre outs for $1400. Very tempting that.

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

I had a good laugh when I saw this.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I had a good laugh when I saw this.

View attachment 74674

Yep. That's modern electronics.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Let me tell you a funny story.
Years back, when Emotiva introduced their XMC-1 prepro at CES, I asked one of the execs if the USB input would support multichannel. He asked an engineer who said that it would handle only stereo. I then asked why since (1) it is a multichannel product and (2) it is simply a matter of inserting suitable firmware. He, again, asked the engineer who (1) confirmed my points and (2) added that he had actually hacked the XMC-1 he has at home to support multichannel. The exec responded by asking why it isn't in the product and the engineer replied that it was not in the design spec.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose!

And A VERY HAPPY BIRTHDAY To Mr. Kalman Rubinson, the golden ears behind Stereophile Magazine's "MUSIC IN THE ROUND" for many years!

Are you BLUSHING, KAL?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

And A VERY HAPPY BIRTHDAY To Mr. Kalman Rubinson, the golden ears behind Stereophile Magazine's "MUSIC IN THE ROUND" for many years!

Thank you.

Are you BLUSHING, KAL?

Sure but I already had a buzz on.

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

Yep. That's modern electronics.

That’s not anything I would spend almost ten $100 bills on. My pair of Emotiva Stealth 8 monitors purchased directly through them cost me $900 for two and just one of them is worth the money. Ka-ching!

 

[LuvMyQuad]

That’s not anything I would spend almost ten $100 bills on. My pair of Emotiva Stealth 8 monitors purchased directly through them cost me $900 for two and just one of them is worth the money. Ka-ching!

So do you evaluate electronics by the pound or something? There are no power amps in it. It doesn't need to have any any more components inside. I mean I guess the power supply could be larger, but....

What competition does it have? Find another 13 channel Atmos enabled Pre/pro that's even close.

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

So do you evaluate electronics by the pound or something? There are no power amps in it. It doesn't need to have any any more components inside. I mean I guess the power supply could be larger, but....

I judge a product by the quality and what I get. When I look at that pre-pro, it looks like a cheap CD player, and that’s something I would not personally spend my money on.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I judge a product by the quality and what I get. When I look at that pre-pro, it looks like a cheap CD player, and that’s something I would not personally spend my money on.

It does look like a cheap CD player, but without the actual transport.

But one cant judge its sound quality by its looks. One has to hear it. And one cant hear it without buying it. One can however return it for a full refund if not happy with it.

And there is one final good thing about it. One isn't using any of your money to buy it.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

So do you evaluate electronics by the pound or something? There are no power amps in it. It doesn't need to have any any more components inside. I mean I guess the power supply could be larger, but....

It just needs a smaller chassis to look like a better buy.

 

[ar surround]

I had a good laugh when I saw this.

View attachment 74674

I too was surprised to see how little is inside this processor. Looking more closely at the unit, it could be made more compact given the amount of internal guts. However, it needs the width, not only to contain the electronics and for all the inputs and outputs, but to be standardized for rack mount. Ditto with the height to handle the inputs and outputs. I actually wish it was a bit higher with a bigger display...the display seems a bit small to read from across the room. (Aging eyes.) As for the depth of 13 inches, they probably could have made it a bit shallower, but shallow components are a nuisance if you have to reach into the rack to hook up cables. The power supply is chintzy.

For comparison, here is the inside of a Marantz AV8805A...for another $3500 more than the Emotiva:

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I too was surprised to see how little is inside this processor. Looking more closely at the unit, it could be made more compact given the amount of internal guts. However, it needs the width, not only to contain the electronics and for all the inputs and outputs, but to be standardized for rack mount. Ditto with the height to handle the inputs and outputs. I actually wish it was a bit higher with a bigger display...the display seems a bit small to read from across the room. (Aging eyes.) As for the depth of 13 inches, they probably could have made it a bit shallower, but shallow components are a nuisance if you have to reach into the rack to hook up cables. The power supply is chintzy.

For comparison, here is the inside of a Marantz AV8805A...for another $3500 more than the Emotiva:

That is quite a difference. And I fully agree on the power supply. So I had a search for the internals on the UMC-200 I've been using for years. And.....

yep same structure. It all stands to reason since they have the same lineage.

That UMC unit replaced a non-HDMI capable B&K reference 30 Pre/pro. To my ears it sounds wonderful and never has a glitch. I never missed the much larger and way heavier B&K, even with analog sources.

The Marantz units seem to test poorly at ASR. I'd rather spend $1k for something that tests poorly than $4500 for something that tests poorly. And the MC-1 is actually $800 if I keep buying more Emotiva product.

A lot of it is in the features and the connectivity. There is no network attachment and no WiFi in the Emotivas, whereas the Marantz is fully networked. A lot of the shielding you see is due to that. It has a much larger display (not a big deal for me). It has balanced outs. It had knobs, and a much nicer power supply to power all of that. I would like some info on the DACs though. I'm sure the Emo stuff isn't all that by a mile in the DAC department. But much of that is in the implementation as well.

My other thoughts are to look into the latest Onkyo/Pioneer Elite AVRs. They have Pre-outs and also are loaded connectivity wise. They retail for only $1400, if you can find them. But I gotta say, I just junked an Elite BDP-80FD blueray player a few months back (my SACD ripper). If you think the inside of that MC-1 is sparse....

Other than that I can only wait for miniDSP to jump on the Atmos bandwagon

 

[4-earredwonder]

I too was surprised to see how little is inside this processor. Looking more closely at the unit, it could be made more compact given the amount of internal guts. However, it needs the width, not only to contain the electronics and for all the inputs and outputs, but to be standardized for rack mount. Ditto with the height to handle the inputs and outputs. I actually wish it was a bit higher with a bigger display...the display seems a bit small to read from across the room. (Aging eyes.) As for the depth of 13 inches, they probably could have made it a bit shallower, but shallow components are a nuisance if you have to reach into the rack to hook up cables. The power supply is chintzy.

For comparison, here is the inside of a Marantz AV8805A...for another $3500 more than the Emotiva:

View attachment 74694

So where's the POOL?

 

[ar surround]

That is quite a difference. And I fully agree on the power supply. So I had a search for the internals on the UMC-200 I've been using for years. And.....

View attachment 74695
yep same structure. It all stands to reason since they have the same lineage.

That UMC unit replaced a non-HDMI capable B&K reference 30 Pre/pro. To my ears it sounds wonderful and never has a glitch. I never missed the much larger and way heavier B&K, even with analog sources.

The Marantz units seem to test poorly at ASR. I'd rather spend $1k for something that tests poorly than $4500 for something that tests poorly. And the MC-1 is actually $800 if I keep buying more Emotiva product.

A lot of it is in the features and the connectivity. There is no network attachment and no WiFi in the Emotivas, whereas the Marantz is fully networked. A lot of the shielding you see is due to that. It has a much larger display (not a big deal for me). It has balanced outs. It had knobs, and a much nicer power supply to power all of that. I would like some info on the DACs though. I'm sure the Emo stuff isn't all that by a mile in the DAC department. But much of that is in the implementation as well.

My other thoughts are to look into the latest Onkyo/Pioneer Elite AVRs. They have Pre-outs and also are loaded connectivity wise. They retail for only $1400, if you can find them. But I gotta say, I just junked an Elite BDP-80FD blueray player a few months back (my SACD ripper). If you think the inside of that MC-1 is sparse....

Other than that I can only wait for miniDSP to jump on the Atmos bandwagon

I'm glad that your Emotiva pre/pro has been a trooper! That says a lot. I bought a Marantz SR7013 for $1600 in the summer when they were clearing them out. I needed the 7.1 analog inputs for my Surround Master. I love the AVR; and I use it solely as a pre/pro except for four amps for the height channels. Frankly, I really don't have a preference one way or the other for sound of the multichannel ESS DAC in my Oppo 205 vs the AKM DAC in the Marantz. I actually prefer the Marantz because it sounds more balanced due to the Audyssey room correction (<500Hz). So now I only use the Oppo's ESS DAC for 2-channel playback via the balanced outputs.

I have no idea why the Marantz AV8805A, and other Marantz gear, tested so poorly at ASR. He hates the stuff. However, I have yet to see a bad review anywhere else and there are experts on this forum and elsewhere that swear by the AV8805A. Even the Lexicon repair guy told me that I should consider Marantz if I wanted to replace my Lexicon gear. Weird.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I have no idea why the Marantz AV8805A, and other Marantz gear, tested so poorly at ASR. He hates the stuff. However, I have yet to see a bad review anywhere else and there are experts on this forum and elsewhere that swear by the AV8805A. Even the Lexicon repair guy told me that I should consider Marantz if I wanted to replace my Lexicon gear. Weird.

Even weirder, the Marantz stuff tests poorly while the Denon stuff tests relatively well.

I do think much of what he tests and discusses is likely not audible by us mere mortals.

I did send an Email to ASR for testing the MC-1

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Its a done deal. Its being drop shipped to Amir at ASR for testing, supposedly sometime in January

 

[ar surround]

Even weirder, the Marantz stuff tests poorly while the Denon stuff tests relatively well.

I do think much of what he tests and discusses is likely not audible by us mere mortals.

I did send an Email to ASR for testing the MC-1

Yeah, we probably can’t hear it…especially those of us with aging ears. Quality of the source material is always the biggest factor. Even in the days of ‘The Magnificent Magnavox‘ I could tell the difference Between a really good record and a mediocre one.

 

[weekendtoy]

I keep looking at this pre pro.

...Lets talk money. It costs $1k. It comes with a 20% credit in Emobucks. The credit can be used to flesh out the height channels, either an amp or the ceiling speakers themselves.

If I get one I'd love to forward it to Audio Science Review for a test. Just to see.

I know there have been bumps with firmware at Emotiva. But my UMC-200 had no issues. I think its a great piece. My plan would be to keep it in the system as a separate source, just for those MC inputs. The UMC-200 also has an AM/FM tuner that the MC units lack. Some of us old timers still use that occasionally.

But then.... looming.... are the Pioneer/Onkyo AVRs with all that connectivity and pre outs for $1400. Very tempting that.

Do you already have 13 channels of external amplification?

The pre-pro seems like a value item unless you have to add a second 7 channel (or more) amplifier(s) to your system.

With the AVR you can use it as pre-pro with your current external amplifiers and still take advantage of the AVR's amplification to power the less demanding speakers such as the ATMOS heights.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Do you already have 13 channels of external amplification?

The pre-pro seems like a value item unless you have to add a second 7 channel (or more) amplifier(s) to your system.

With the AVR you can use it as pre-pro with your current external amplifiers and still take advantage of the AVR's amplification to power the less demanding speakers such as the ATMOS heights.

I have rolled this over in my head for a while prior to purchase.

I currently have 5 channels of amplification with a dedicated power amp. Regardless of what I buy, I plan to continue using that amp in the system. So eventually I will need another 4 channels of amplification for the 4 height speakers. My room can't accommodate 7 main channels, so there will never be any side surrounds. Only 9 channels of amplification will be needed.

I also recognize the convenience and cost effectiveness of using an AVR to drive the height channels. I had a look at what was available in the way of AVR's with pre outs. The Pioneer Elite VSX-LX505 would work for me. It retails for $1500 and can be had for a couple of hundred less, if you can find one (they are currently out of stock most everywhere). Other brands are more costly. Denon and Marantz with pre outs are at least 2x pricier IIRC.

Price wise, its close with the Emotiva gear being a bit less costly. How you say?

The MC-1 pre/pro is $1k with a 20% credit. A separate 100wpc Emotiva BasX A-4 power amp is $550 (also eligible for a 20% credit) And that is a true 100wpc for the Emotiva, unlike how Pioneer (and most AVR brands) rate amplifier power. Total cost is $1550 - $310 credit = $1240. I don't think I can buy the Pioneer for that much. The $310 credit went a long way toward getting two sets of the Emotiva Vaulta height speakers which i will be working to install in the coming weeks.

I haven't had a receiver in my main listening room since the mid 70's. The last was a Marantz 2325 back when they did rate power output properly. I did love that unit, but when it came time to move on, I went to separates.

For me an even bigger AVR advantage than the included amps would be the additional features and connectivity. That Pioneer is network connected but the network connection really doesn't do much for me. The Pioneer has Dirac live which I would be interested in. The Emotiva has the home grown Emo-Q system which is just OK. My UMC-200 also has it and it is already set up using REW for the measurement portion. In a way I'm kind of glad because I eventually learned how to use REW. In the end its even more powerful than Dirac, its just not as easy.

A MCH USB input would be a big deal for me if it worked properly, and while both options have USB inputs, the Emotiva is limited to stereo, and the Pioneer is actually an unknown. Does it do MCH? Does it play gapless? My sons Pioneer won't do gapless.

So at this point I'll continue to be content to use my HTPC for playing files via HDMI instead of USB. That is 95% of how I play music anyway, although I did just order an Apple TV box to dip my toe into the MCH streaming waters.

I can return any of the Emotiva gear within 30 days if I don't like it. They also have a trade in program (maybe that MC-1 becomes a RMC-1 if I ever decide its worth it). The Emotiva warranties are transferable (3 years on electronics, 5 yrs on speakers), which makes them easier to resell on the used market.

I just couldn't see a downside to the Emotiva. Besides, I like the Emotiva gear. I'm very happy with the UMC-200 that I use now.

 

[barfle]

I’m fairly happy with the three Emotiva Pro Stealth 8s across the front of my room. One of them had the woofer pretty much die about a year ago, and Emotiva’s response was to email me the schematics. Getting analog circuits fixed these days seems pretty difficult, although I was able to find a guy who basically recapped the amps and charged me $300 for the job. That fixed it, but I’m just waiting for the other two to drop their shoe.


I’d buy them again, but maybe I’d see about tantalum caps instead of aluminum, now that I have a place I can work on them.