New To CD-4 .... Questions!!!

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Allright, well I got my very first CD-4 record and it is:

A Pioneer CD-4 test 45 rpm record!! (oohs and aahs follow)

Anyway, my demodulator is a Panasonic SE-405-H and my turntable is a Pioneer PL-530. Cartridge & Needle are an Audio Technica CN5625AL. .7 mil Uniradial. (Probably not the best for CD-4)

Well, I get CD-4 Radar light to come on and left seperation front to back is great! Right front to back seperation is almost non-existant.

When adjusting the carrier level for cleanest tone, I could only get left perfect but right sounded splatty and cranked all the way up, I couldn't get it very clean.

I'm under the impression that I need a proper stylus and cartridge. What's your take on the subject?

Thanks. ;)

 
Hi and welcome to the group!!!:)

You need to start from scratch! Hey please take a look at the many previous posts on cd-4 as we have kicked that dog repeatedly! ;)

Dave
 
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Yeah, thanks for the help [/quote]
Don't throw a fit :rolleyes: . There is a section here where it's been gone into in great detail and is a pain to re-write it all over again , and again, and again, Do a little looking and you'll find all the info you need from this section . Then come and ask questions we'll all pitch in and get you on the right track . You may need to set you cart alignment to get it right. Sounds like it's not exactly straight, and may be the problem get an alignment tool and get it set right and see what happens! Remember it gets old repeatting things when it's all here, when one only has do do a little looking!
P.S.Welcome and ask away when you find the section and get your cart straight!
0] Rob
 
First of all you need a cartridge with a linear contact stylus. This is an improvement on the Shibata type that was originally designed for quad. The Audio Technica AT331LP will work. I am not familiar with the cartridge you mentioned, but if it doesn't have a CD-4 compatible stylus, you're spraying into the wind. Round or elliptical will not do. It has to be a Shibata, line contact, or microline type stylus. Otherwise the stylus will skate over the finer subcarrier modulations. There is much information in the older posts in the CD-4 forum. Go fourth and read! And by the way, welcome!

The Quadfather
 
Calibrating the SE-405H can be a nuisance. Check out the link below for detailed instructions on doing this:

www.greatgig.com/quad/se-405.htm

If, after making sure your system is set up properly and your demodulater properly calibrated, you still get unsatisfactory performance, there is a trick I have tried with the SE-405H that helps get it back on track.

Open up the unit and you will see a half-dozen or so pots (little adjustors that can be turned with a small flathead screwdriver). These should be already be marked in some fashion to indicate how they were set at the factory. Go through and see if there are any where the markings don't line up and adjust them so they do.

If all the pots or already set to factory markings, the pots may just need to be cleaned. I have found that these things tend to discolor over time and their ability to maintain a good contact degrades. Use your favorite contact cleaner (Caig DeoxIT or similar, although WD-40 or plain ol' lighter fluid can work in a pinch). Apply the cleaner to the pot and use a screwdriver to twist it back and forth vigorously to get the cleaner into the nooks and crannies to re-establish a good contact. After you are done, return the pot to the factory setting as indicated by the markings. Do this with all the pots and fire up the demodulator again. This procedure has resurrected all but one out of five "dead" SE-405H demodulators I have tried it on.

The SE-405H is persnickety, and you may find yourself having to calibrate it again down the road, or you may even have to go so far as to play the pots trick again. However, when it is working properly, the SE-405H is the best sounding CD-4 demodulator I have ever heard.

 
I am also in need of alignment instructions for this piece. I am using it with their cartridge. It is close but not perfect. I wanna know what those trim pots are for before I adjust them. I can see that 2 on the daughter board and 2 on the main board control something to do with an FET and the remaining 2 on the daughter board are related to the decoder(?) ICs.
I also have a little receiver SA-507 that does better with the same turntable cartridge. I also have a SL-701C which needs to be tweaked as it has grain and midrange distortion and some "splatter". I think this cartridge demodulator is possibly one of the better sounding ones I have heard so I really want to get it dialed in!
I did sucessesfully set up a Heathkit AA-2015 with a Shure V15V in a Pioneer linear tracker in my other system.... Now to fix my Akai 1800D-SS and I will be in quad city! With records open reel and carts.
 
Yow, there's a blast from the past...

I've moved on to a JVC CD4-50. I still love the sound of the SE-405H but they sure are tempermental.

I don't maintain a web page anymore, but I'll post my old SE-405H calibration instructions here (read the next message).
 
Panasonic SE-405 CD-4 Demodulator Calibration Instructions


The Panasonic SE-405 CD-4 demodulator came "pre-calibrated" for the ceramic (or semi-conductor) phono cartridge that was originally included with it (the EPC-450C-II). This cartridge, although not the best, is still very much adequate. Even if you are still using this cartridge, I strongly recommend calibrating your demodulator yourself to ensure you are getting the best performance possible.

Before you attempt to calibrate your demodulator, please make sure that your turntable is set up properly. I won't go into too much detail, but here is a quick checklist:

q Verify that your phono cartridge is indeed CD-4 compliant. This includes a Shibata or line-contact type stylus and an upper frequency response of at LEAST 40 kHz (50 kHz or more is strongly recommended.)
q Turntable is grounded properly.
q Turntable is as level as possible (use a bubble level to make sure.)
q Phono cables are connected properly to the SE-405 (make sure the right/left channels are not reversed!)
q Phono cartridge wires are connected properly to the tonearm – it is very important that the four tonearm wires are connected to the correct corresponding connectors on the phono cartridge!
q Set the cartridge selector button on the back of the SE-405 to correspond with the type of phono cartridge you are using (SC for semi-conductor or MM for moving magnet.)
q Phono cartridge is properly aligned. Here is a link to a free alignment protractor: http://web.archive.org/web/20041209085301/http://www.enjoythemusic.com/protract.htm. THIS STEP IS EXTREMELY CRITICAL!
q Stylus pressure set to upper-end of stylus/cartridge manufacturers recommendations (e.g. if manufacturer recommends 1.0 to 2.0 grams of stylus force, go with 1.7 or thereabouts – do not exceed 2.0 even if recommendations allow for it!)
q Anti-skate is set properly – this is very important for CD-4 records! Ideally, you should set anti-skating with a test record that has a special blank "band" for this purpose. If such a record is not available, set anti-skating to be equal to stylus pressure. Note: linear tracking turntables do not have an anti-skating feature.
q Verify that the four channel outputs on the SE-405 are connected to the proper inputs on your pre-amp(s) and/or amplifier(s).
q Make sure you have a CD-4 test record containing a Separation or CD-4 Adjustment Tone track and (optionally) a channel identification track.

Okay, after you have completed the above checklist, you are ready to calibrate your SE-405 for optimum performance! On the underside of your SE-405, towards the front, you should see four small holes giving you access to the calibration controls (you will need a small regular screwdriver to access them.) If your unit has never been manually calibrated before, these holes will be covered with a sticker warning you not to muck with them! If this is the case, carefully cut out the holes with a sharp knife.

Two of the controls are marked "Carrier Level" and two are marked "Separation". These are each separated for both the right and left channels.

Set both Carrier Level controls to their maximum positions (fully clockwise.) Set both Separation controls to their minimum positions (fully counterclockwise.) Set the Function switch on the front panel of the SE-405 to "Four Channel Auto".

Position the SE-405 in such a way that you can access and adjust these controls "real time" while a record is playing. This usually means allowing the SE-405 to overhang its resting surface a bit. If it is not placed on a high enough shelf, you may find it difficult to get "under" the unit!

At this point, you should power on all your equipment in preparation to play your CD-4 test record. Some test records have separate left/right “Separation” tracks and some have a single track for both channels called “CD-4 Adjustment Tone.” In either case, you should mute the two front channels of your quadraphonic system so that only the rear channels can be heard. If your test record has a combined CD-4 Adjustment Tone track, you will also need to mute either the left or right rear channel.

Play the Separation or CD-4 Adjustment Tone track of your CD-4 test record for either the left or right channel. As the record plays, turn the separation control for the corresponding channel back and forth. You should notice that the volume of the tone is minimized at some point between the minimum and maximum positions of the control. If this is not the case (i.e. the volume is minimized at either extreme end of the control position) then something is not right and you should go back to the turntable setup checklist and re-evaluate all steps.

You may need to play the adjustment track a few times until you find the spot within the separation control's range that produces the LOWEST volume for that channel. When you have found this position, leave it there!

You will now need to perform this same task for the other channel using its separation control. Play the corresponding track on the test record or mute the other rear channel as necessary. When you have found the position for that channel that produces the lowest volume, leave it!

At this point both separation controls are set for maximum separation. We are now ready to adjust the carrier levels for maximum performance. For this purpose, any CD-4 record will do. You do not necessarily need the test record for this purpose. I actually prefer to use a "standard" CD-4 LP record, as it will help adjust the carrier level for a "real use" scenario (as opposed to a test record which is usually a 7" 45 rpm disk made of thin vinyl and does not represent the type of disk that you will normally be playing.)

After you have selected a record for carrier level adjustment, mute all four channels of your quadraphonic system (or simply turn off the amplifier(s).) Set the SE-405 function switch to the "Four Channel Auxiliary" position. Set the two carrier level adjustment controls on the underside of the SE-405 to their minimum positions (fully counterclockwise.)

Now, go ahead and play the CD-4 record you selected (make sure your turntable is set for the proper speed if you just switched from a 7" to a 12" record!) As the record plays, SLOWLY turn the LEFT carrier level adjustment control clockwise until the carrier light comes on. Stop turning the adjustment EXACTLY when the light comes on. You may want to turn the control back and forth a few times until you get the feel for when the exact moment the lighting occurs.

At this point you need to switch the SE-405 function switch back to "Four Channel Auto." Continue playing the CD-4 record and SLOWLY turn the RIGHT carrier level adjustment control clockwise in the same manner prescribed above.

Congratulations, you have just calibrated your SE-405 for optimum performance! Now you can turn your amplifier(s) back on. To verify your handiwork, retrieve your CD-4 test record and play the channel identification band (most CD-4 test records have one.) After you are satisfied that each channel is properly identified, you can start enjoying your CD-4 records!
 
Hello.
Thanks for the reply and post of those instructions here.
I still would like to know what those internal trim pots are for though.
Does anybody have a copy of the service manual for the Panasonic SE-405 ?
I did find that better sound was obtained on my unit by advancing the carrier levels slightly further than just turning on the light. It sounded really distorted right at the threshold and distorted in a diferent way when turned up quite a bit. It was optimum at about 1/4 rotation from full counterclockwise with the Panasonic cartridge. I have heart this cartridge give excelent results and read favorable reviews so I really want to try and optimize it. I have proper turntable cal. proceedures for stylus overhang antiskate etc. As I said the same cartridge in the same table is giving excelent results through the CD4 demod. in my little Panasonic SA-507 receiver.
I also have my V15 Shure in a Pioneer linear tracker with my Heathkit Quad amp to compare. All these beat the results I had back when I was young and experimenting with a Radio Shack Realistic QTA-753 and a Sylvania receiver using a Shure quad cartridge of that era.
I never did fiddle with carrier levels on those and I am beginning to gather that too much level and or mistracking the carrier account for most CD4 "grunge".
 
Panasonic SE-405....by coincidence I was looking at mine on the shelf yesterday and saw this thread (thanks Cai for the alignment instructions), but did anyone have a copy of the owners/service manual available? I would like to get a scan of it if possible. Thanks. John S.
 
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