Ripping Dolby Atmos to 7.1 Channel FLAC/WAV to Play Using ROON

[Steve Bruzonsky]

I understand that a modern day receiver will fold down an Atmos mix say you don't have an Atmos system, you only have a 5.1 or 7.1 system with no ceiling/height speakers.

My family room system has an Exasound multi-channel (7.1) DAC and for practical reasons (family room with breakfast nook and kitchen is one super large room with high vaulted ceiling) has only a 5.1 Totem Acoustic on wall system.

If I use AnyDVD HD (decryption of blu rays) and DVD Audio Extractor to rip blu ray Dolby Atmos to 7.1 FLAC or WAV, is the fold down included in the ripped FLAC/WAV, or would I be missing the height layer fold down I would get using a receiver?

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I understand that a modern day receiver will fold down an Atmos mix say you don't have an Atmos system, you only have a 5.1 or 7.1 system with no ceiling/height speakers.

My family room system has an Exasound multi-channel (7.1) DAC and for practical reasons (family room with breakfast nook and kitchen is one super large room with high vaulted ceiling) has only a 5.1 Totem Acoustic on wall system.

If I use AnyDVD HD (decryption of blu rays) and DVD Audio Extractor to rip blu ray Dolby Atmos to 7.1 FLAC or WAV, is the fold down included in the ripped FLAC/WAV, or would I be missing the height layer fold down I would get using a receiver?

This has been explained many times. There is no fold down involved. All the information, including the height signals, is included in the 7.1 tracks. The Atmos metadata is in there as well. When presented to an Atmos processor, the 7.1 is decoded and the height info is removed from the floor channels and sent to the height channels. By converting to FLAC or WAV the metadata is ignored. The height info remains in the floor channels. All the signal is retained.

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]

Thanks for explaining this in "simple" terms!

Which begs the question, when a blu ray has both an Atmos mix and a 5.1 mix, has anyone compared them and found that the folded down Atmos mix sounded as good or better than the 5.1 mix?

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

My family room system has an Exasound multi-channel (7.1) DAC and for practical reasons (family room with breakfast nook and kitchen is one super large room with high vaulted ceiling) has only a 5.1 Totem Acoustic on wall system.

Out of interest... What playback device is connected to your Exasound (model unknown) multi-channel DAC's RCA/Phono inputs?

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]

Out of interest... What playback device is connected to your Exasound (model unknown) multi-channel DAC's RCA/Phono inputs?

My Exasound s88 8 channel DAC is a ROON Ready player w built in DACs.

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]

Also it has 8 (7.1) AES/EVU and single ended outputs which are both operative at the same time. I use the hardwired ethernet input over my network I have an Exasound Delta ROON server.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Thanks for explaining this in "simple" terms!

Which begs the question, when a blu ray has both an Atmos mix and a 5.1 mix, has anyone compared them and found that the folded down Atmos mix sounded as good or better than the 5.1 mix?

It's still a question I am looking for an answer to. It doesn't seem to have a simple answer.

When you rip, there is usually a 5.1 mix available. But there are 2 varieties. A stand alone, dedicated 5.1 mix (can be 24/96) and also a derived 5.1 substream within the Dolby TrueHD stream (typically 24/48). Sometimes both are available on the disc, sometimes only the derived 5.1 stream.

So if you rip all three streams, they play back as:
1. 5.1 dedicated.... Same as if the mixer was supplying a 5.1 DVDA or SACD. It stands on its own. This is a lossless process.
2. 5.1 derived.... Takes the 7.1 stream and folds down to 5.1 using pre set algorithms available to the mixer when the Atmos stream is processed. The result is written on the Blu-ray as the 5.1 Dolby TrueHD substream. I'm not sure how this substream is accessed from a disc player. I believe this is a lossy process, but not sure.
3. 7.1 stream.... The 7.1 stream goes into your processor as 7.1 and is folded down to 5.1 (or even 4.0) using the algorithms found within your AVP/AVR. This should be lossless, I believe

You would think the best option is the 5.1 dedicated mix, especially if it's done by a well known mixer. But this option isn't always available. When it's not, which fold down option works better? Is there even a difference? Try to compare and see.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

My Exasound is a ROON Ready player w built in DACs.

I'm still unfamiliar with how surround sound audio is getting to your Exasound DAC. Please describe the connection chain?

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

Thanks for explaining this in "simple" terms!

Which begs the question, when a blu ray has both an Atmos mix and a 5.1 mix, has anyone compared them and found that the folded down Atmos mix sounded as good or better than the 5.1 mix?

More often than not, the 5.1 mix is encoded using lossless DTS-HD MA, which I guess could be compared 'mix-wise' with the lossy Dolby Digital core embedded within the Dolby TrueHD stream.

Personally, I've not checked to see if all the lossless Dolby TrueHD Atmos Blu-ray audio discs have been encoded using a 7.1 bed (and not 5.1). But I suspect they are...

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]

Exasound Delta ROON Server and Western Digital MyCloudPR4100 64TB network server hardwire Ethernet connection. Theater 11.7.12 system w Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP ROoN Ready hardwired Ethernet, theater upgrade/renovation ongoing. Family Room Exasound 7.1Ch DAC/music player using 5.1 channels, with AES/EBU and RCA outputs (active at same time). PS Audio Stellar monoblocks, 3 M1200 & 2 M700s. Totem Audio on-wall speakers, 3 Model V & 2 Model III, 2 REL S510 subwoofers; 3 REL t9i subwoofers.

If I rip Dolby Atmos it is always 7.1Ch, which ROON folds down to 5.1Ch.

 

[barfle]

Thanks for explaining this in "simple" terms!

Which begs the question, when a blu ray has both an Atmos mix and a 5.1 mix, has anyone compared them and found that the folded down Atmos mix sounded as good or better than the 5.1 mix?

I only have a few Atmos discs, and I don’t have an atmos decoder. The channels that say they are atmos turn out to be 7.1, and, alas, I have 5.1, and I have had holes in sounds that rotate around the room.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I only have a few Atmos discs, and I don’t have an atmos decoder. The channels that say they are atmos turn out to be 7.1, and, alas, I have 5.1, and I have had holes in sounds that rotate around the room.

That really shouldn't be the case. It's just the side surrounds being folded down. I think I read something about the fold down going wrong if you have rears surrounds or side surrounds identified wrong in the setup. But I have no first hand knowledge of this. I run 5.1.4. and there are no holes.

Maybe try one of those test signal routines and see what comes out.

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]

I only have a few Atmos discs, and I don’t have an atmos decoder. The channels that say they are atmos turn out to be 7.1, and, alas, I have 5.1, and I have had holes in sounds that rotate around the room.

My Family Room system is also 5.1. However, when I rip Atmos as 7.1, and I play it using Roon music software, software folds down 7.1 to 5.1

 

[jarrod2750]

Roon doesn’t support Atmos but does support up to 7.1 channels. Atmos 7.1 files will be played back without heights and instead you will have side and rear surrounds if you have the speakers. That is how it is played on my system.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Roon doesn’t support Atmos but does support up to 7.1 channels. Atmos 7.1 files will be played back without heights and instead you will have side and rear surrounds if you have the speakers. That is how it is played on my system.

I know you can't compare directly, but do you notice anything missing due to not having heights? All the height info should be distributed among the surround channels. With a mixdown to 5.1, all four height signals should end up in the rears.

 

[AYanguas]

I know you can't compare directly, but do you notice anything missing due to not having heights? All the height info should be distributed among the surround channels. With a mixdown to 5.1, all four height signals should end up in the rears.

This is not what I tested in my denon 8500.

The tests I did consisted of reconfiguring my Denon AVR by "removing" speakers, until I reached only 7.1 or 5.1

The Top Fronts (Front Heights) content comes out through the Floor Fronts, always.
The Top Rears (Rear Heights) content comes out through the Floor Surrounds (single surrounds in 5.1, but Surround Back (rears) in 7.1)

That seems correct for me, as the Front Heigh content should be played in front of you, and the Rear Height content, behind you.

For 6 Height channels test, The Top Middles content comes out through the Surrounds in 5.1. But Side Surrounds (not rears) in 7.1

 

[jarrod2750]

I know you can't compare directly, but do you notice anything missing due to not having heights? All the height info should be distributed among the surround channels. With a mixdown to 5.1, all four height signals should end up in the rears.

To be honest I really haven’t felt that anything is missing and at first it was a bummer but it is what it is, I learned to live with it!

 

[LuvMyQuad]

This is not what I tested in my denon 8500.

The tests I did consisted of reconfiguring my Denon AVR by "removing" speakers, until I reached only 7.1 or 5.1

The Top Fronts (Front Heights) content comes out through the Floor Fronts, always.
The Top Rears (Rear Heights) content comes out through the Floor Surrounds (single surrounds in 5.1, but Surround Back (rears) in 7.1)

That seems correct for me, as the Front Heigh content should be played in front of you, and the Rear Height content, behind you.

For 6 Height channels test, The Top Middles content comes out through the Surrounds in 5.1. But Side Surrounds (not rears) in 7.1

Ahhh. Actually that is what I would have guessed.

 

[sunra]

This is (slightly) off topic, but there are so many lists created by members of this site. Is there a list of Atmos mixes available for streaming, which are NOT available for download or on physical media? It would be nice to have a list, if for no other reason than to pester the label to release the mix on Blu-Ray.

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

This is (slightly) off topic, but there are so many lists created by members of this site. Is there a list of Atmos mixes available for streaming, which are NOT available for download or on physical media? It would be nice to have a list, if for no other reason than to pester the label to release the mix on Blu-Ray.

There's so many unique to streaming that it's easier to list which titles are only on Blu-ray/Download. There is a listening now in Atmos Streaming thread which may give a good start.