Ripping ELP - BRAIN SALAD SURGERY [DVD-A][2000 WB]

[dabl]

Ancient thread and subject I know but I just read all the way through to see if anyone who has a version of this 2000 DVD-A was able to rip 'Lucky Man'?

For whatever reason I can get all the other tracks but not that one.

I have various tools at my disposal including DVD Audio Extractor.

I noticed none of the rips in the wild have this track so am guessing it's a trick at best to get it off the disc.

To be clear I do own the actual DVD-A.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Ancient thread and subject I know but I just read all the way through to see if anyone who has a version of this 2000 DVD-A was able to rip 'Lucky Man'?

For whatever reason I can get all the other tracks but not that one.

I have various tools at my disposal including DVD Audio Extractor.

I noticed none of the rips in the wild have this track so am guessing it's a trick at best to get it off the disc.

To be clear I do own the actual DVD-A.

Its on my rip. I don't remember doing anything special.

 

[dabl]

Its on my rip. I don't remember doing anything special.

Thanks. Do you remember exactly which tool you used?

The best I can do so far with DVD Audio Extractor for that track is getting the lossy Dolby AC3 version from the VIDEO_TS folder

I'm seeing a lot of evidence jimfisheye mentioned earlier in the thread about DRM.

Normally I can just use foobar to rip to .flac but not with this disc

 

[boxhead]

Thanks. Do you remember exactly which tool you used?

The best I can do so far with DVD Audio Extractor for that track is getting the lossy Dolby AC3 version from the VIDEO_TS folder

I'm seeing a lot of evidence jimfisheye mentioned earlier in the thread about DRM.

Normally I can just use foobar to rip to .flac but not with this disc

I just checked this disc using DVD Audio Extractor and think I may have an answer. The authoring on this disc is unusual, and as has been pointed out before not all of the tracks are in 5.1. The tracks Still... You Turn Me On, Benny The Bouncer and Karn Evil 2nd Impression are all 5.0.

I loaded the disc in DVD Audio Extractor 7.1.2 and clicked to 'Download metadata from db'. There are three database entries to choose from:

All three are basically the same, and the track listing for all three is definitely the same:

The tracklisting for tracks 05-08 is incorrect. The correct listing should be:

05 Karn Evil Nine 1st Impression Parts 1 & 2
06 Karn Evil Nine 2nd Impression
07 Karn Evil Nine 3rd Impression
08 Lucky Man

So track 8 which shows as being 08 Karn Evil Nine 3rd Impression in the screen grab above is actually Luck Man. Does this make sense?

 

[hi-res_edition]

Lucky Man is on the self titled album, which was also available in surround on DVD. Brain Salad Surgery doesn't include that track. One can also verify this by looking at Discogs for the track titles on each album.

 

[Francis Drake]

Lucky Man is on the self titled album, which was also available in surround on DVD. Brain Salad Surgery doesn't include that track. One can also verify this by looking at Discogs for the track titles on each album.

Could it be that your looking at the SACD version of the release?, because "Lucky Man" is on the DVD-A version.

 

[Clement]

Lucky Man is on the self titled album, which was also available in surround on DVD. Brain Salad Surgery doesn't include that track. One can also verify this by looking at Discogs for the track titles on each album.

Here's the discogs listing for the DVD-A of Brain Salad Surgery. Track #9 (#9, #9, #9, . . .) is "Lucky Man."
https://www.discogs.com/release/8783249-Emerson-Lake-Palmer-Brain-Salad-Surgery

 

[hi-res_edition]

Interesting ... I'll have to pull. my copy off the shelf - truly don't recall Lucky Man on that version, and it is not in my ripped files either. Regardless, it is not part of that album unless the version is different from the version on their debut release.

 

[DuncanS]

Here's the discogs listing for the DVD-A of Brain Salad Surgery. Track #9 (#9, #9, #9, . . .) is "Lucky Man."
https://www.discogs.com/release/8783249-Emerson-Lake-Palmer-Brain-Salad-Surgery

Interesting ... I'll have to pull. my copy off the shelf - truly don't recall Lucky Man on that version, and it is not in my ripped files either. Regardless, it is not part of that album unless the version is different from the version on their debut release.

Its on my DVD-A as the Bonus Selection which is in the larger DVD case Emerson, Lake & Palmer - Brain Salad Surgery

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Thanks. Do you remember exactly which tool you used?

The best I can do so far with DVD Audio Extractor for that track is getting the lossy Dolby AC3 version from the VIDEO_TS folder

I'm seeing a lot of evidence jimfisheye mentioned earlier in the thread about DRM.

Normally I can just use foobar to rip to .flac but not with this disc

DVD audio extractor

 

[dabl]

I just checked this disc using DVD Audio Extractor and think I may have an answer. The authoring on this disc is unusual, and as has been pointed out before not all of the tracks are in 5.1. The tracks Still... You Turn Me On, Benny The Bouncer and Karn Evil 2nd Impression are all 5.0.

I loaded the disc in DVD Audio Extractor 7.1.2 and clicked to 'Download metadata from db'. There are three database entries to choose from:

View attachment 98260

All three are basically the same, and the track listing for all three is definitely the same:

View attachment 98261

The tracklisting for tracks 05-08 is incorrect. The correct listing should be:

05 Karn Evil Nine 1st Impression Parts 1 & 2
06 Karn Evil Nine 2nd Impression
07 Karn Evil Nine 3rd Impression
08 Lucky Man

So track 8 which shows as being 08 Karn Evil Nine 3rd Impression in the screen grab above is actually Luck Man. Does this make sense?

Thank you, hugely helpful.

I realized I had more than one problem.

I was getting weird behavior with DVD Audio Extractor writing very small bogus .flac files when pointed towards the MLP (96kHz 24bit 6CH) versions which turned out to be caused by having RedFox AnyDVD enabled when I first ripped the disc using that, either to an .iso or a folder structure. The RedFox software disables typical copy protection found on blu-ray and DVD discs which I thought I needed. I think this may be the first of my physical DVD-A discs I've tried ripping and that for those the RedFox software may either be not needed and/or actually causes problems, at least for some based on my experience with this one. When ripping directly from the disc itself using DVD Audio Extractor with the RedFox software disabled, it worked fine.

Also as you kindly pointed out for whatever reason only 8 tracks are listed for the lossless MLP versions where 9 are listed for the AC3 lossy versions which was also confusing me and making me think the track was missing in the MLP versions.

 

[ssully]

Ancient thread and subject I know but I just read all the way through to see if anyone who has a version of this 2000 DVD-A was able to rip 'Lucky Man'?

Yup, no problem.

 

[ssully]

Lucky Man is on the self titled album, which was also available in surround on DVD. Brain Salad Surgery doesn't include that track. One can also verify this by looking at Discogs for the track titles on each album.

er...it 100% certainly was included as a bonus track on the 2000 DVD-A release, at a time when that release was the only ELP available in digital surround.

That Lucky Man surround mix is spectacular. So good, that Steven Wilson's , done much later, and somewhat different, is totally superfluous.

 

[quicksrt]

I think "Still.... You Turn Me On" is also a really strong mix as well that made me less in search of a SW mix.
This is a great sounding disc imo.

 

[JediJoker]

...the SW mix...

You mean the JJ (Jakko Jakszyk) mix? There's no Steven Wilson (SW) mix of BSS.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Thank you, hugely helpful.

I realized I had more than one problem.

I was getting weird behavior with DVD Audio Extractor writing very small bogus .flac files when pointed towards the MLP (96kHz 24bit 6CH) versions which turned out to be caused by having RedFox AnyDVD enabled when I first ripped the disc using that, either to an .iso or a folder structure. The RedFox software disables typical copy protection found on blu-ray and DVD discs which I thought I needed. I think this may be the first of my physical DVD-A discs I've tried ripping and that for those the RedFox software may either be not needed and/or actually causes problems, at least for some based on my experience with this one. When ripping directly from the disc itself using DVD Audio Extractor with the RedFox software disabled, it worked fine.

Also as you kindly pointed out for whatever reason only 8 tracks are listed for the lossless MLP versions where 9 are listed for the AC3 lossy versions which was also confusing me and making me think the track was missing in the MLP versions.

DVDAE has its own mechanism for disabling copy protection.

Its been mentioned that the disc has strange authoring with some tracks 5.0, Some 5.1. best practice would be to add silent channels, so your media player isn't switching formats. Also, IIRC there is no dedicated stereo mix.

 

[Francis Drake]

I think "Still.... You Turn Me On" is also a really strong mix as well that made me less in search of the SW mix.
This is a great sounding disc imo.

I agree, i can't imagine anyone being able to produce a more superiour mix of BSS than Jakko Jakszyk, it's just a shame he wasn't invited to do the rest of the albums.
I know this group is secretly a Steve Wilson groopie club, but his surround remixes of the ELP catologue has to be the worst ever done.
The copies i purchased were played once and never touched again. Can't imagine we'd get a second chance of hearing a propper remix of the albums.

 

[jimfisheye]

It might have been the mix of 5.1 & 5.0 tracks that crashed ripping software? I remember the original (if that's correct) DVDA Explorer app having trouble with newer DVDA discs at one point. Then the DVDA Extractor (different newer app) came alone and the newer discs were covered again. I don't know if it was purely a format revision or if there was some copy protection going wild at play.

I do know my disc had the Lucky Man bonus track though.

Even with the kind of hyped feel in the mixes that I typically dislike and some alternate takes used, this is one of the better mixes from this circa early 2000's period with this style of surround remix found on these DVDA releases.

The Jakko thing was/is weird! This doesn't look like an intentional finished effort. I sounds for all the world like the start of a mix that was going to be serious. No hyped or volume war style elements. The mix was never finished and especially the parts in KE9-2nd with the bass doubled in all channels seems like a clear 'wrong button pushed' kind of mistake. The kind that gets through because it wasn't ever fully proof listened through rather than someone actually listening and signing off. Probably because it wasn't intentionally finished! Maybe some label bureaucracy and the unfinished mix was turned in under duress? But it's so unfinished and botched that save for a handful of moments, the hyped 2000 mix is at least whole.

The Wilson remixes of those albums sound unfinished for him too. Pretty sure this was talked about though. He didn't establish a good rapport with the band and kind of gave up and walked away and left them unfinished. He generally (for good or bad) pastes upmixes in for songs where the original tapes are lost. Those are still empty holes on the first album remix he did.

All kind of unfortunate stuff thinking about what could have been!
But this 2000 mix is still pretty good! The Welcome Back quad getting lost still sucks too! As good as one of the restorations may have turned out. There's still just a huge opportunity to present this whole catalog in proper form that hasn't been realized yet.

I think the ripping procedure is to first copy it to your hard drive. I think the outer Audio_TS folder has some weird copy protection so you have to make a new folder yourself and then copy the contents. Then rip from the copy on your hard drive with DVDA Audio Extractor. (Not the original DVDA Audio Explorer.)

 

[kap'n krunch]

It might have been the mix of 5.1 & 5.0 tracks that crashed ripping software? I remember the original (if that's correct) DVDA Explorer app having trouble with newer DVDA discs at one point. Then the DVDA Extractor (different newer app) came alone and the newer discs were covered again. I don't know if it was purely a format revision or if there was some copy protection going wild at play.

I do know my disc had the Lucky Man bonus track though.

Even with the kind of hyped feel in the mixes that I typically dislike and some alternate takes used, this is one of the better mixes from this circa early 2000's period with this style of surround remix found on these DVDA releases.

The Jakko thing was/is weird! This doesn't look like an intentional finished effort. I sounds for all the world like the start of a mix that was going to be serious. No hyped or volume war style elements. The mix was never finished and especially the parts in KE9-2nd with the bass doubled in all channels seems like a clear 'wrong button pushed' kind of mistake. The kind that gets through because it wasn't ever fully proof listened through rather than someone actually listening and signing off. Probably because it wasn't intentionally finished! Maybe some label bureaucracy and the unfinished mix was turned in under duress? But it's so unfinished and botched that save for a handful of moments, the hyped 2000 mix is at least whole.

The Wilson remixes of those albums sound unfinished for him too. Pretty sure this was talked about though. He didn't establish a good rapport with the band and kind of gave up and walked away and left them unfinished. He generally (for good or bad) pastes upmixes in for songs where the original tapes are lost. Those are still empty holes on the first album remix he did.

All kind of unfortunate stuff thinking about what could have been!
But this 2000 mix is still pretty good! The Welcome Back quad getting lost still sucks too! As good as one of the restorations may have turned out. There's still just a huge opportunity to present this whole catalog in proper form that hasn't been realized yet.

I think the ripping procedure is to first copy it to your hard drive. I think the outer Audio_TS folder has some weird copy protection so you have to make a new folder yourself and then copy the contents. Then rip from the copy on your hard drive with DVDA Audio Extractor. (Not the original DVDA Audio Explorer.)

Yup, I TRIED to talk to Jakko regarding that mix and he basically started running in the opposite direction ...LITERALLY!!! so , yes, it was NOT a finished product...

 

[quicksrt]

You mean the JJ (Jakko Jakszyk) mix? There's no Steven Wilson (SW) mix of BSS.

Should have written a SW mix.