Wise Words - Audio Fidelity Moves to Selective Multichannel SACD Releases

[fredblue]

Well this is a bummer, kinda like a big tease. Guess the tapes will have to do.

Ah that temptress track 3 of Tale Spinnin' ("Between The Thighs") is good music to do a striptease to.. allegedly

Travesty we won't get to hear it in Surround fresh from the Quad masters but there you go.. AF, you screwed up badly here man, can't sugar coat it I'm sorry

 

[The Rang]

We are all assuming AF "screwed up", an opinion I would agree with if 4.0 was a viable option they turned down.
But maybe they had no choice, for example 3 and 4 from Jon's list of possible reasons.

 

[Robert van Diggele]

The more I think about this, the more it just does not make any sense at all.

With BS&T Greatest Hits and now "Tale Spinnin" and "Musicmagic", it's almost like Audio Fidelity are acquiring these albums for reissue because of their Quadraphonic mixes but then deciding after the reissue license has already been approved if they want them to be stereo/multichannel or just stereo.

What particularly reeks about this decision is that it's not like there would be repeat content between these two Jazz Fusion SACDs and already released titles from AF (as was the case with BS&T).
This was a perfect opportunity to cater to all three audiences (stereo CD buyers, stereo SACD buyers, and multichannel SACD buyers) but if they are going to leave out the multichannel Quad mixes on these releases, then it's a no-buy for me. Simple as that!

Is it too harsh to say that I hope these two titles fail miserably in terms of sales?
(No. I don't think it's too harsh. I have now purchased every single one of these Quad SACDs. Some of them were just purchased to 'help the cause', and a lot of them continue to sit on the shelf barely getting played, while I'm constantly playing the Yes & XTC Blu-Rays which are much better value for the price IMHO)

Buying to help the cause is a waste of money IMO. you end up with titles you do not want. This Marshal also said at the begiining that nobody had to buy them just to keep this program going.

I have not bought any of these AF quad titles, the chosen albums did not really do much for me.

 

[rtbluray]

We are all assuming AF "screwed up", an opinion I would agree with if 4.0 was a viable option they turned down.
But maybe they had no choice, for example 3 and 4 from Jon's list of possible reasons.

Option 3 might have been an issue, and if so, that's fine. I know AF certainly are not the kind of label to release something unless it is absolutely up to their highest quality standards.
However, I doubt Option 4 was an issue here. These albums are not big enough sellers to where Sony would be actively seeking to put the Quad mixes out themselves, and they know they can rake in more money from AF if they were included, so I think it's any of those options except Option 4, and honestly, only Option 3 is a good enough excuse to not include the Quad mixes IMHO.

 

[fredblue]

We are all assuming AF "screwed up", an opinion I would agree with if 4.0 was a viable option they turned down.
But maybe they had no choice, for example 3 and 4 from Jon's list of possible reasons.

Ralph's email response from Marshall Blonstein "we're being more selective" implies the Quads were on the table and AF declined to avail themselves of them (to me at any rate).. I mean, could AF be forgiven for thinking: they're "only Weather Report and Return To Forever".. can you imagine if they were Aerosmith or The Eagles with Quads and they were gonna be Stereo only..??? There'd be a riot goin' on..!! :yikes

I think steelydave was on the right lines yesterday as to why.. also I do feel maybe AF secured licensing on these titles and then when the accountants told them the numbers didn't stack up for their Surround experiment, they were lumbered with the albums and decided to go ahead and release them anyway without the added overhead of doing the Quad, cut their losses somewhat and do them regardless, take the hit but it'd still work out cheaper than doing all the extra work to include the Quad.. oh I dunno?

A mistake, if that's the case, imho. The market for RTF and Weather Report's small enough as it is.. seems senseless to me to shrink it further by cutting out the Quaddies (small in numbers we may be compared to the regular Stereo crowd but our pockets are deep and we are loyal to a fault.. nobody told us to buy all the AF Surround discs, in fact we were almost discouraged from doing so and advised to only get what we really wanted.. but all the same many of us here bought all these AF Surround titles in the - now seemingly vain - hope it might help keep the Surround program afloat and the releases coming). Ok, its "only music" but the news has hit me hard, I LOVE these two old Quads, I am totally gutted they're gonna be Stereo only.. this may not mark the end of AF's dalliance with Quad but the whole thing will be tainted for me from now on, I don't suppose too many others here or elsewhere give a toss and if it makes no financial sense to them - they're a business after all not a charity - then of course I'd rather they didn't take any further risks and can live on to release more Surround titles one day in the future.. still doesn't stop the news hurting though.

 

[rtbluray]

Buying to help the cause is a waste of money IMO. you end up with titles you do not want. This Marshal also said at the begiining that nobody had to buy them just to keep this program going.

I have not bought any of these AF quad titles, the chosen albums did not really do much for me.

Now that's it mid-afternoon here in the US, as opposed to late at night, let me clarify what I wrote about buying discs to 'support the cause' as I didn't articulate my thoughts as well as I could have.
I looked through my stack of Audio Fidelity SACDs I own, 24 in total. 20 have Quad mixes, while the other 4 are half of the 5.1 titles released.
Looking through that stack, there's only one I truly regret buying, and that is the Judy Collins SACD which just arrived today!
For all of the other titles, if I bought them to 'support the cause', it meant that I had a mild interest in them and took a gamble to see if it would pay off having them in surround, and I'm happy to say that except for the Judy Collins SACD, every single one of the other SACDs I purchased are worth keeping for one reason or another, even if I don't give them as much love as my treasured Yes and XTC Blu-Rays.

One thing that Audio Fidelity has done for me is expanded my collection in such a profound way. Thanks to their Multichannel SACD series, I now own titles by so many artists that I didn't care about before. I only just wish the same could be true for these upcoming releases from Weather Report and Return to Forever…

 

[fredblue]

Buying to help the cause is a waste of money IMO. you end up with titles you do not want. This Marshal also said at the begiining that nobody had to buy them just to keep this program going.

I have not bought any of these AF quad titles, the chosen albums did not really do much for me.

AH-HA! :yikes

So it's your fault, Robert, that I'm not getting Whether Or Not Report & Return To Whatever in Quad..!!!

"Smithers, release the hounds..!!" :violin:howl:slap::smack::kaboom:scream:nuke


​Only joking

 

[fredblue]

Now that's it mid-afternoon here in the US, as opposed to late at night, let me clarify what I wrote about buying discs to 'support the cause' as I didn't articulate my thoughts as well as I could have.
I looked through my stack of Audio Fidelity SACDs I own, 24 in total. 20 have Quad mixes, while the other 4 are half of the 5.1 titles released.
Looking through that stack, there's only one I truly regret buying, and that is the Judy Collins SACD which just arrived today!
For all of the other titles, if I bought them to 'support the cause', it meant that I had a mild interest in them and took a gamble to see if it would pay off having them in surround, and I'm happy to say that except for the Judy Collins SACD, every single one of the other SACDs I purchased are worth keeping for one reason or another, even if I don't give them as much love as my treasured Yes and XTC Blu-Rays.

One thing that Audio Fidelity has done for me is expanded my collection in such a profound way. Thanks to their Multichannel SACD series, I now own titles by so many artists that I didn't care about before. I only just wish the same could be true for these upcoming releases from Weather Report and Return to Forever…

Well said Ryan, I blame Judy Collins too A bigger b!tch than even that super b!tch Joan Collins in Dynasty..! :smack:

Oh and an honourable mention for He Man Steamroller (or whatever that bollocks is called) how AF could release that in Surround and pass over the stunning Weather Report Quad is just mind blowing... bearing in mind this is a label who could justify doing an SACD of something as obscure as the soundtrack to Cruising (a film so notorious its star, Pacino, has disowned it for the last 30+ years.. I'd love to know how many copies of that they have sold..) and it makes the current situation seem all the more, well, unfathomable..

 

[rtbluray]

Well said Ryan, I blame Judy Collins too A bigger b!tch than even that super b!tch Joan Collins in Dynasty..! :smack:

Oh and an honourable mention for He Man Steamroller (or whatever that bollocks is called) how AF could release that in Surround and pass over the stunning Weather Report Quad is just mind blowing... bearing in mind this is a label who could justify doing an SACD of something as obscure as the soundtrack to Cruising (a film so notorious its star, Pacino, has disowned it for the last 30+ years.. I'd love to know how many copies of that they have sold..) and it makes the current situation seem all the more, well, unfathomable..

Now I must say this:
Just because I don't like the Judy Collins SACD doesn't mean I don't think they should have released it.
I have seen lots of people on this forum get enjoyment out of it. It just doesn't happen to fit my musical tastes.

But you are right. In a year where Audio Fidelity are being more 'selective' in terms of what Multichannel SACDs they release, releasing "Fresh Aire 8" from Mannheim Steamroller was a big misstep IMHO. Imagine if they could have put the money and resources needed to release that title into making either or both of the upcoming Jazz/Fusion titles full-on Multichannel SACDs. If that would have been the case, I don't think anyone would be complaining!

 

[4-earredwonder]

Well said Ryan, I blame Judy Collins too A bigger b!tch than even that super b!tch Joan Collins in Dynasty..! :smack:

Oh and an honourable mention for He Man Steamroller (or whatever that bollocks is called) how AF could release that in Surround and pass over the stunning Weather Report Quad is just mind blowing... bearing in mind this is a label who could justify doing an SACD of something as obscure as the soundtrack to Cruising (a film so notorious its star, Pacino, has disowned it for the last 30+ years.. I'd love to know how many copies of that they have sold..) and it makes the current situation seem all the more, well, unfathomable..

tsk, Tsk, Adam. Judy Collins a bigger bitch than Dynasty's Joan Collins with her endangered species deluxe TUSK desk? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9iFs1UPIOk

But you're correct about Mannheim Steamroller 8. Not ONLY was it their least interesting album but the existing DVD~A was superb on EVERY level and didn't need a make~over.

As for CRUISING.....Well releasing THAT on hi res SACD was a travesty. Especially since Donna Summer's SHE WORKS HARD FOR THE MONEY would've been a better "CLUB" alternative on SACD .....hands DOWN!

 

[timbre4]

Cliff Notes:
AF will release albums as stereo SACD only = COOL
AF will release albums with available quad mixes as stereo SACD only = NOT COOL

 

[wheeler98]

Guys...I'm sure AF is doing everything they can to survive and prosper as a business.

THE END

 

[rtbluray]

BTW, in case anyone's interest in picking up "Fresh Aire 8" in surround, amazon.com have one new copy left of the original CD/DVDA-V version that they are selling for $13.99 (plus shipping)
I just bought the second-to-last copy as I'm more of a CD/DVDA-V person than a Multichannel SACD person myself.
Not only that, but used copies are going for as low as $0.82, and you can even get a new copy from 3rd-party sellers for as low as $9.50 (plus shipping)

All this to say that Audio Fidelity releases this title on Multichannel SACD but holds back the Quad mixes from "Tale Spinnin" and "Musicmagic"?! Unbelievable…
(OK I'm done harping on "Fresh Aire 8" for today. Once I get it in very soon, I'll really be able to tell if it was worth all that time, effort, and expense from AF.)

 

[4-earredwonder]

BTW, in case anyone's interest in picking up "Fresh Aire 8" in surround, amazon.com have one new copy left of the original CD/DVDA-V version that they are selling for $13.99 (plus shipping)
I just bought the second-to-last copy as I'm more of a CD/DVDA-V person than a Multichannel SACD person myself.
Not only that, but used copies are going for as low as $0.82, and you can even get a new copy from 3rd-party sellers for as low as $9.50 (plus shipping)

All this to say that Audio Fidelity releases this title on Multichannel SACD but holds back the Quad mixes from "Tale Spinnin" and "Musicmagic"?! Unbelievable…
(OK I'm done harping on "Fresh Aire 8" for today. Once I get it in very soon, I'll really be able to tell if it was worth all that time, effort, and expense from AF.)

You will probably enjoy a few cuts from Mannheim Steamroller 8, rt (MLP DVD~A 5.1] but as you surmised, a totally UNNECESSARY AF SACD 5.1 release as the DVD~A is a sonic marvel with great surround immersion. That the DVD~A is STILL available cheaper @ AmazonUS makes the duplication even more puzzling.

 

[Simon A]

You will probably enjoy a few cuts from Mannheim Steamroller 8, rt (MLP DVD~A 5.1] but as you surmised, a totally UNNECESSARY AF SACD 5.1 release as the DVD~A is a sonic marvel with great surround immersion. That the DVD~A is STILL available cheaper @ AmazonUS makes the duplication even more puzzling.

I understand your point, but I wouldn't go as far as calling the Audio Fidelity release completely unnecessary. I've learned with time that many people would rather buy a SACD than a DVD-A so this release can please these buyers.

 

[JonUrban]

I have to admit that this is a quite puzzling release in many ways. Many ways.

 

[4-earredwonder]

I have to admit that this is a quite puzzling release in many ways. Many ways.

I TOTALLY agree, Jon. Perhaps it was one of those situations where it was offered CHEAPLY to AF and they took the 'gamble......" which VERY doubtfully paid off. I almost feel compelled to email Marshall again concerning Tail Spinning and Musicmagic but I'm afraid it would fall on deaf ears since they've probably already begun work on authoring the Stereo SACDs.

 

[fredblue]

Guys...I'm sure AF is doing everything they can to survive and prosper as a business.

THE END

Well they may or may not give a hoot but categorically they've totally lost my custom on these two discs (and I bought 28 of the 29 SACDs AF released in Surround so far.. nope, I just couldn't bring myself to get that Mannheim Steamroller, even just to "support the cause") so their new business strategy is already going swimmingly isn't it..

Personally, I'd rather see them thrive than survive and that such cost-cutting measures would not be necessary.
The whole thing is disappointing, the whole situation is unfortunate, not just the failure of releasing these two discs in Surround, the seeming flop of the whole endeavour is borderline crushing to me.

One thing that bugs me is the insinuation (nobody's said it outright but the inference is there isn't it) that yet again Surround is unfairly both scapegoat and victim in these situations.

I may be one of the young'un's on this board but I've been buying Surround Music discs for 15 years+ now and like all of you guys here have seen and heard all the excuses before..
(gets on soapbox; "nobody wants surround".. "oh that terrible/naughty/evil surround is stopping people from buying our product, we must scrap it immediately!".. "surround is just not viable, its too expensive to license/remix from the multi's/transfer or remaster from the master tapes/whatever the excuse is, it'll be nothing new - and it'll be untrue and unfair.)

Other labels can make it work - look at things like all the wonderful Yes/XTC/King Crimson/Jethro Tull kinds of releases.. all include surround, all bells and whistles, all amazing, all available, all reasonably priced, those labels and producers/teams involved can pull it off, including all the costs of remixing from the multi tracks not just remastering from old Quad tapes, the Tull sets even include all the Quad too in addition to the Surround remixes - at no extra cost!

Bowing out of this conversation again for a bit to simmer down, getting mildly agitated, I'm afraid..

 

[quicksrt]

I just wish AF could cut down on their expenses a bit and not remove the quad layers. Ditch the slipcase for starters. Charge more for any SACD with surround layer. Ask the mastering team to accept 1/2 rate when they are already paying the full rate for the stereo. The second mastering session should be at somewhat a discount. Maybe go mini-LP gatefold cover with no booklets.

I am amazed at how AF was able to show us all and the world what it is like when you add an old quad mix to an SACD, and how that plays in modern era systems. It's been an amazing demo for old technology merging with later technology.

So if all we got so far is 20 quad masters then that's pretty special right there. Let's hope there we can get one every other month, because even six more in the next 12 months would be cool if they picked really great rock titles, and avoided the types of things that did not sell as well.

 

[quicksrt]

Well they may or may not give a hoot but categorically they've totally lost my custom on these two discs (and I bought 28 of the 29 SACDs AF released in Surround so far.. nope, I just couldn't bring myself to get that Mannheim Steamroller, even just to "support the cause") so their new business strategy is already going swimmingly isn't it..

Personally, I'd rather see them thrive than survive and that such cost-cutting measures would not be necessary.
The whole thing is disappointing, the whole situation is unfortunate, not just the failure of releasing these two discs in Surround, the seeming flop of the whole endeavour is borderline crushing to me.

One thing that bugs me is the insinuation (nobody's said it outright but the inference is there isn't it) that yet again Surround is unfairly both scapegoat and victim in these situations.

I may be one of the young'un's on this board but I've been buying Surround Music discs for 15 years+ now and like all of you guys here have seen and heard all the excuses before..
(gets on soapbox; "nobody wants surround".. "oh that terrible/naughty/evil surround is stopping people from buying our product, we must scrap it immediately!".. "surround is just not viable, its too expensive to license/remix from the multi's/transfer or remaster from the master tapes/whatever the excuse is, it'll be nothing new - and it'll be untrue and unfair.)

Other labels can make it work - look at things like all the wonderful Yes/XTC/King Crimson/Jethro Tull kinds of releases.. all include surround, all bells and whistles, all amazing, all available, all reasonably priced, those labels and producers/teams involved can pull it off, including all the costs of remixing from the multi tracks not just remastering from old Quad tapes, the Tull sets even include all the Quad too in addition to the Surround remixes - at no extra cost!

Bowing out of this conversation again for a bit to simmer down, getting mildly agitated, I'm afraid..

It's the gawd-damn 4.0 red sticker that just confused stereo only audiophiles. They could not read further and figure out if the fucking disc would play in their players, and so they avoided the disc all-together. Yeah right.

I think that the Billy Joel and Labelle titles were two obvious missteps. Both wonderful displays of 70s quad mixing, high quality recordings, strong material, but titles the current market has little interest in. I bought them both because I wanted to know if I was missing something.

So yes, maybe AF needs to go away from quad for a while and wait until the right title has become available. But I would gauge the market by past releases. If Doors, Sly, Mahavishnu, Alice, Full Sail, and Secret Treaties are not doing well for AF, then yeah, Doobies, Lightfoot, and Jim Croce are not going to either right.