Tube Amps

[dsk3331/disc rider]

If appropriate on the site, as a Newbie I wanted to ask if anyone is familiar with the Jolida JD 502B tube amp and if so, can you let me know your thoughts as to its performance capabilities, etc.
Thanks much!

 

[markshan]

I've had opportunity to play with a few tube amps, but not that one. Sorry.

 

[dsk3331/disc rider]

I've had opportunity to play with a few tube amps, but not that one. Sorry.

No worries. Thanks for getting back with me

 

[Tamsindarke]

The love of tube amps always make me smile... as a young teen, my first ever record player, one of those 1950s suitcase portables... had tubes, and all I remember of it was the smell (which I actually liked - it became a part of the listening experience) and the fierce heat that thing would kick out after an LP or two.

I assume they've improved since then

 

[dsk3331/disc rider]

The love of tube amps always make me smile... as a young teen, my first ever record player, one of those 1950s suitcase portables... had tubes, and all I remember of it was the smell (which I actually liked - it became a part of the listening experience) and the fierce heat that thing would kick out after an LP or two.

I assume they've improved since then

I should hope they have improved since the old days. Ha.

 

[par4ken]

Many modern designs haven't changed a lot since the old days because they work and sound good. They say it's hard to make a bad sounding tube amp. High end designs usually use high end (expensive) components in their construction. I found tubes best for phono preamps, I'm using a design form Audio Amature magazine "Daniel" designed by Joe Curcio. It's similar to an AR design using solid state regulators, so is really a hybrid design. The system in my rec room uses push pull KT88's driven by 6SN7's for mid/high frequency amplification.

 

[proufo]

Tubes are one more thing to get paranoid about.

 

[hobie1dog]

Never had Jolida amps, but the others I have owned just don't have any balls. Even when used with 105db efficiency speakers they could not deliver punch, transients, slam, volume to recreate a live event.

 

[Beefalo]

In the late 90's I was really into high end car audio.
For mids & highs I used Butler tube driver amps. From what I remember they coupled a tube preamp with a typical output stage.
Used active crossovers & Dynaudio speakers. Awesome stereo. Wish I could hear it now !!!

 

[markshan]

Never had Jolida amps, but the others I have owned just don't have any balls. Even when used with 105db efficiency speakers they could not deliver punch, transients, slam, volume to recreate a live event.

What ones have you owned?

 

[Soundfield]

Never had Jolida amps, but the others I have owned just don't have any balls. Even when used with 105db efficiency speakers they could not deliver punch, transients, slam, volume to recreate a live event.

Wow, you must have had some really bad luck with some very poor amps. I've not used anything but valve amps for decades now and would never go back to solid state stuff. I've actually reduced the size of power amps over the years, finding I really didn't need massive amounts for musical realism. I am now using 15W monoblocks (yes, 15!) and would really annoy the neighbours if I wound them up fully! My passion for valves is such that I've just got a new valve preamp to drive the mono blocks - Copland CVA 306

 

[hobie1dog]

Wow, you must have had some really bad luck with some very poor amps. I've not used anything but valve amps for decades now and would never go back to solid state stuff. I've actually reduced the size of power amps over the years, finding I really didn't need massive amounts for musical realism. I am now using 15W monoblocks (yes, 15!) and would really annoy the neighbours if I wound them up fully! My passion for valves is such that I've just got a new valve preamp to drive the mono blocks - Copland CVA 306

McIntosh, Conrad Johnson, Audio Research to name a few

I find your comment " I really didn't need massive amounts of musical realism" very strange. That is the entire purpose of an audio reproduction system. If you're not able to convince a blind person that the actual recorded event is happening in your room, then you have failed to assemble a faithful audio system.

 

[par4ken]

McIntosh, Conrad Johnson, Audio Research to name a few

I find your comment " I really didn't need massive amounts of musical realism" very strange. That is the entire purpose of an audio reproduction system. If you're not able to convince a blind person that the actual recorded event is happening in your room, then you have failed to assemble a faithful audio system.

Valve amps tend to sound more real even if they do measure poorly compared to solid state equivalents.

 

[hobie1dog]

Valve amps tend to sound more real even if they do measure poorly compared to solid state equivalents.

Sounds like confirmational bias. Do you remember the Bob Carver/ Stereohile amplifier challenge?
So would you be willing to take a blindfold test with two identical systems, and just switching out exact wattage tube amps versus SS amps, and put both testicles on a chopping block that you could properly identify the tube amp...lol?
My guess is going to be NO

I'm very disappointed that of the responses so far, that not one person mentioned the term " WARM ". It's blasphemy to say tube amp without saying warm....lol. Don't get me wrong as I would go right out and buy a pair of Navison tube amps if I won the Lottery as I find the physics of tube amplification fascinating.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

Sounds like confirmational bias. Do you remember the Bob Carver/ Stereohile amplifier challenge?
So would you be willing to take a blindfold test with two identical systems, and just switching out exact wattage tube amps versus SS amps, and put both testicles on a chopping block that you could properly identify the tube amp...lol?
My guess is going to be NO

I'm very disappointed that of the responses so far, that not one person mentioned the term " WARM ". It's blasphemy to say tube amp without saying warm....lol. Don't get me wrong as I would go right out and buy a pair of Navison tube amps if I won the Lottery as I find the physics of tube amplification fascinating.

Yes I do remember the Bob Carver amp challenge & I think it's worth revisiting.
Tube/solid state amps do sound different from each other because they distort the signal in different ways. One of the biggest differences important to me is damping factor. Which a bit over simplified is the ratio of amp output impedance to speaker and connecting wire impedance. I do not have ultra-high end power amps just good 'old Adcom 555's. 250 watts continuous power & damping ratio of 800. This is significant because my front ch Infinity Kappa 8's drop to below 1 ohm at certian bass frquences. It would really suck the life out of a tube amp. Tube power amps typically have only 10>20 damping ratio because of the output transformer. That poor rating is why you rarely see it in tube amp specs.

So if one likes the sound of a tube amp I think it's very important to have a good amp with decent out put, & a high efficiency speaker with an easy to drive load.

 

[par4ken]

Sounds like confirmational bias. Do you remember the Bob Carver/ Stereohile amplifier challenge?
So would you be willing to take a blindfold test with two identical systems, and just switching out exact wattage tube amps versus SS amps, and put both testicles on a chopping block that you could properly identify the tube amp...lol?
My guess is going to be NO

I'm very disappointed that of the responses so far, that not one person mentioned the term " WARM ". It's blasphemy to say tube amp without saying warm....lol. Don't get me wrong as I would go right out and buy a pair of Navison tube amps if I won the Lottery as I find the physics of tube amplification fascinating.

I don't consider my tube amps as sounding warm, just more natural. I use solid state amps for bass so the poor damping factor (of tubes) is of no consequence. My other systems are all solid state. Tubes really shine in the phono preamp, the sound is not warm but very detailed, analytical even. It might be that the distortion synthesizes harmonics giving the sense of extra detail. For signal processing, good old op-amps with a minimum of coupling capacitors is the way to go, I wouldn't bother with tubes there., others might.
Many people believe that the best (most musical) amps are single ended triodes (Western Electric 300B) designs from the 1930's, some might call them warm sounding.

 

[hobie1dog]

Yes I do remember the Bob Carver amp challenge & I think it's worth revisiting.
Tube/solid state amps do sound different from each other because they distort the signal in different ways. One of the biggest differences important to me is damping factor. Which a bit over simplified is the ratio of amp output impedance to speaker and connecting wire impedance. I do not have ultra-high end power amps just good 'old Adcom 555's. 250 watts continuous power & damping ratio of 800. This is significant because my front ch Infinity Kappa 8's drop to below 1 ohm at certian bass frquences. It would really suck the life out of a tube amp. Tube power amps typically have only 10>20 damping ratio because of the output transformer. That poor rating is why you rarely see it in tube amp specs.

So if one likes the sound of a tube amp I think it's very important to have a good amp with decent out put, & a high efficiency speaker with an easy to drive load.

Yes, the tube amps inherently deliver generous amounts of 2nd order harmonic distortion. They just lack the balls to drive big-ass speakers. I went to Atlanta one year to hear some Klipsch theater speakers that were 105db eff. And the guy had a tube amp driving them, so after his demo song I asked him, " is this all they can deliver ? The percussion is not chest thumping". He said well I can switch it out to a SS amp and we can see what happens, after the replay he stated he was going to be selling it as he realized it just didn't have the umph .

I apologize for getting a little off topic but I had a Crown Macro Reference amplifier that had a damping factor >20,000 from 10-200hz and 1800 @1000hz and delivered 1500 watts/ch @ 2 ohms stereo. Talk about a great amp to drive subs with.
Stereohile article-
https://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/1292crown/index.html
My big Audio Research SP-12C tube preamp was glorious sounding, but probably the best sounding was my SS Classe CP-35 Preamp, should have never sold that one. I have always tried not to romanticize about certain kinds of gear like tubes and horns, but have owned the Holy Grails like the 1943 RCA Ubangi bass cabinet with (2) 15" field coil drivers at 105db eff. And weighing 535lbs, 8ft long. Along with the matching Western Electric tube amps.

 

[quadsearcher]

Hope I'm not stepping on the thread. There was a misquote, or misinterpretation, I think, where "for" was read as "of". The statement appears to not be " I really didn't need massive amounts of musical realism" , it was "...for musical realism". I suspect Soundfield's intent was to reference the previous sentence about power as such " I really didn't need massive amounts [of power] for musical realism" . Apologies to Soundfield if I got it wrong, but I felt I had to say something.
And I agree. I enjoy music.

 

[markshan]

If you're not able to convince a blind person that the actual recorded event is happening in your room, then you have failed to assemble a faithful audio system.

Hyperbole much?

 

[markshan]

So if one likes the sound of a tube amp I think it's very important to have a good amp with decent out put, & a high efficiency speaker with an easy to drive load.

True enough. I really enjoy my Leak Stereo 20 driving Hereseys.