Hi-Rez Audio: Commercial Success?

Floyd will more than likely be SACD. IF you read comments after DSOTM, I don't think Guthrie will go DVD-A. But EMI, Virgin, etc., are doing both formats. I don't see this as a firm commitment to release everything on DVD-A.

What will be interesting is the Beatles or Macca. My guess is that the Beatles will still be SACD due to shelf space; DVD-A does not cater to the average consumer. But I could see Macca going DVD-A.

FenderP said:

DVD-A does not cater to the average consumer.

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Why's that?

daved64 said:

Why's that?

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Simple reasons. There were long threads on this over at stevehoffman.tv, but in a nutshell:
Your average MUSIC consumer buys CDs and shops in music sections. DVD-A, more often than not, is in the DVD-A section or DVD section in many stores. You can't put it in your CD player, take it in your portable CD player, etc. Shelf placement is crucial for the success of any format.

Contrary to popular belief, many people I know still have not embraced 5.1. 2.0 stereo is still the dominant format. And with things like the iPod, where MP3 or MP4 rule, high rez audio formats like MLP or DSD/SACD don't matter. Sad but true. Sure, many DVD-As are DTS/DD downgrade, but most people I know couldn't care less. They listen to music on CDs, and don't hear the difference of a 96/24 vs. 44/16 stereo. They don't care.

The reality is also that the average, non-audiophile consumer knows nothing of DVD-A or SACD really. The best thing about SACD hybrids is that they are backwards compatible for your average music consumer. The DVD-A flippy seems silly to me, and a problem for durability (i.e. I hate the flippy DVDs; way to easy to fingerprint or scratch IMHO). Compatibility remains to be seen (and having said that, I've heard some SACD hybrids are fussy for some folks; heck, I have newer CDs that won't register in my older CD player).

I'm not turning this into SACD vs. DVD-A - I like both formats. Both have their place. Reality is that you're competing for consumer dollars and shelf space. You are best served when buying music to sell to the mass market. DSOTM on SACD didn't sell a lot of copies because it was hard to find. This is one of the main reasons I think the Beatles will be SACD hybrids. You can market them as the first "remastered" CDs, and the SACD folks get the benefit. Simple marketing really.

I mean, really, the Pet Sounds DVD-A didn't sell like DSOTM. And at $25.99, why would it? For you to penetrate, you also need price point. If you can pick up a hybrid SACD for $11.99 - $15.99 and a DVD-A at $25.99, price point will win out, too.

Both formats sound great - the Queen "Game" DTS DVD-A is one of my favorite releases this year, but to me, DVD-A will always be niche.

They'll flop. Badly. IMHO.
What's really interesting is that Sony & Phillips can't afford to let SACD go down the pan -they don't get royalties on CD anymore remember. Oh dear. I am watching with fascination about how they're going to get out of this one. DVD-A? Do the masses care? Er, no, actually. They do like DVD-V, which is understandable. Anyone can see the benefit over VHS, which was rotten at best; abysmal at worst. DVD-A's only genuine chance is that it can be built into any DVD player, so people won't have to worry about new equipment -remember, average Joe hates being forced to buy new things if he / she is happy with what they already has. They'll vote with their wallets if they think some corporation is pointing a gun at their heads and forcing them into buying something they don't want.
But why don't they care? Simple; they don't have the equipment to hear a blind bit of difference over CD. Hell, most mini/micro systems are so bad, you can't hear an improvement in CD over tapes for pity's sake. I've said it before, 99.999% of people will never hear redbook CD at its best, so upgrading to a high-res format is a bit of a moot point. The only way they're going to survive is if someone stops hammering on about improved sound quality, which will be inaudable to the majority, and plugs multichannel. Even then, we have a problem, because not everyone either has room for all the speakers, or actually wants a large number of wires dangling all over their living room.
I'm not saying either are bad, or retrograde; quite the reverse, I enjoy, and buy both. But I don't think they're going to capture the market unless something drastic happens. And I still rather like 16bit redbook CD too. It's not bad at all, you know.
Scott

Hi Scott,
I'm disagreeing with you in the "flop badly" concept.

All you have todo to-day is pick up any magazine dedicated to Home Electronics and you'll be overwhelmed by the commitment that equipment manufacurers are making to including the possibility of playing HIREZ music in their equipment. Simeone may not buy a dvd player or a reciever with the idea of playing a dvd-a or sacd disc in mind but one day they'll hear or read something or wander into the section in the local BestBuy and say "Hey whats in that big Jewelcase" and it might be one of their fave's from yesteryear and say Hey lets give it a try I've already got the equipment.

Scott, I dont't know if ozmosis is the right word here but people can't help but absorb whats going on around them and regardless of what naysayers proclaim these formats are still in their infancy and prices are coming down and quality is "all over the map" but the stuff is out there and it keeps coming and coming.

When will it reach critical mass, I don't know, but it will!!

Peter m.

Q:What is going to get these new format into "Joe Public"'s attention span?

Q:Where do most people listen to music in these modern times?

The answer to both questions is the same:

THE CAR

When "Joe Public" gets a new car with an SACD or DVD-A logo on the "stereo", he will want to try out this capability to show off his new ride. If the systems are done correctly, and he buys the right software, be hopefully will be blown away. I can't tell you how many guys I used to blow away with my Q8 player in the car!

Once he gets it in the car, he will logically then want it for his house! If he is lucky enough, he may even find that his current DVD player does one or both of these "new fangled formats"!

This is the best hope for both SACD and DVD-A, from my point of view..............

Hi,

Not to understate that a car is the ideal music environment.
My wife has the new Nissan SER with 9 speakers and a sub in the trunk aside from that it's just a ROCK something (can't remember exact brand name) and is 2 ch but the sound is awsome just the same.

I feel that the car will play a big part but HT is getting the ball rolling.

Peter m.

FenderP said:

Your average MUSIC consumer buys CDs and shops in music sections. DVD-A, more often than not, is in the DVD-A section or DVD section in many stores.

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Well, stores like Best Buy, Circuit City, and Tower are at least devoting space specifically for multichannel music, regardless of format (DVD-A, SACD, even DTS). I rarely see SACD's mixed in with the "regular" CD's, even if they're hybrids (the Stones hybrids being the exception).

FenderP said:

Contrary to popular belief, many people I know still have not embraced 5.1.

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I don't think anyone here is debating that. However, they're more likely to embrace surround music if they're able to do so on their existing equipment - which gives the edge to DVD-A.

FenderP said:

They listen to music on CDs, and don't hear the difference of a 96/24 vs. 44/16 stereo. They don't care.

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Which, again, supports why they'd be more likely to be impressed by the DD/DTS layer of a DVD-A, rather than the improved sound quality of an SACD.

FenderP said:

The reality is also that the average, non-audiophile consumer knows nothing of DVD-A or SACD really. The best thing about SACD hybrids is that they are backwards compatible for your average music consumer.

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Again, that's true, but if we're talking about multichannel taking off with the general public, that's a moot point. The difference will be made when people realize they can listen to DVD-A's on their existing K-Mart special home-theater-in-a-box set-up. (Heck, even those come with DTS these days.)

FenderP said:

I mean, really, the Pet Sounds DVD-A didn't sell like DSOTM.

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The "Pet Sounds" LP didn't even come close to selling like the "DSOTM" LP. That's apples and oranges. "DSOTM" is one of the biggest selling albums of all time. "Pet Sounds" has never sold as well, and never will, regardless of format or price.