Creating 7.1 Output from 5.1 in Audacity

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Guy Robinson

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Since 2002/2003
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Hi,
I am trying to create a 7.1 mix from a 5.1 96/24 flac source. What I want is the left rear speaker duplicated in the left back speaker and the right rear speaker duplicated in the right back speaker. I just simply created two new mono streams and then copied and pasted the applicable rear channel into each of the 2 created mono streams at the bottom of Audacity. When I saved the file it was showing as 8 channels with the two new ones being 7 and 8. However there was no sound on playback but my receiver showed a 7.1 configuration. The file played for a few seconds but then terminated playback. What am I doing wrong?
 
Seems that ought to work, but why do it? Doubling your surrounds in the rears will just make it louder back there and maybe ruin the stereo field from behind.
If you want to engage the two extra speakers, why not just use DPLIIx Movie? That's what it will do. It will leave the 5.1 mix alone and send select info out the rears.
 
It's just that the Sgt Pepper 6.1 brought the idea to mind. And it just appears to be doing the same thing in comparison to the 5.1 track. Duplicating the rears into the backs. Makes a huge difference.
 
It's just that the Sgt Pepper 6.1 brought the idea to mind. And it just appears to be doing the same thing in comparison to the 5.1 track. Duplicating the rears into the backs. Makes a huge difference.

Is that what the 6.1 does? Just duplicates the surrounds to the rears? That really shouldn't make anything sound better, per se. At least not any more discrete. It would be like if you had extra FL/FR speakers instead of just one each. It's just louder. And kinda spread out if they're not right next to each other, which would probably ruin any intended stereo effect.

If that 7th channel of the 6.1 mix has discrete info, THAT would be killer. If that's the case, I wonder if it's possible to rip to 6.1 FLAC from the Dolby True HD mix.
 
Funnily enough I was experimenting with I Saw Her Standing There by The Beatles.

I created a 6 channel set in Audacity.

Vocals in channels 1 & 2
Instruments in channels 5 & 6
Silence in channels 3 & 4.

It sounds pretty good.

Vocals central in front. Backing central in the rears.

Nicely balanced.
 
Is that what the 6.1 does? Just duplicates the surrounds to the rears? That really shouldn't make anything sound better, per se. At least not any more discrete. It would be like if you had extra FL/FR speakers instead of just one each. It's just louder. And kinda spread out if they're not right next to each other, which would probably ruin any intended stereo effect.

If that 7th channel of the 6.1 mix has discrete info, THAT would be killer. If that's the case, I wonder if it's possible to rip to 6.1 FLAC from the Dolby True HD mix.

It probably depends on where you have your speakers. My rears are mounted on the wall 5 feet above the listening position facing downwards on an angle into the listening area. And that is beside the listening position not behind it. The rears are back behind about the same distance from the listening position as the front speakers. 6.1 or 7.1 sounds awesome. Not quite as good as something that is mixed discretely for 7.1 but darn close.
I'm thinking now that the Oppo cannot play back a 7.1 flac file.
 
Got it!

Add the 2 channels in Audacity. Copy and paste the rear channels into the two created back channels. Export and save.

Open in DBpoweramp and write into a WAV wrapper. Done. The Oppo plays this back as 7.1. I used the DTS MA 5.1 from the BD as input after converting to flac but I guess it would be better to convert it to wav initially. Sounds fantastic. Maybe better than the Dolby True HD on the BD. Now this opens up a lot of possibilities for my other 5.1 files.
 
It probably depends on where you have your speakers. My rears are mounted on the wall 5 feet above the listening position facing downwards on an angle into the listening area. And that is beside the listening position not behind it. The rears are back behind about the same distance from the listening position as the front speakers. 6.1 or 7.1 sounds awesome. Not quite as good as something that is mixed discretely for 7.1 but darn close.
I'm thinking now that the Oppo cannot play back a 7.1 flac file.

This is probably a question for another thread, but I in my 7.2 system I have wides to the front and outer sides of the front mains, as I read that is "more natural." However, I've wanted to try the wides in the rear, or even suspended above and to the sides of the front mains.

Anyone try all three positions? Feedback? I suspect it depends on the surround mix (ambient might be better on rears, discrete on front wides, for example). But who wants to configure speakers for each different SACD/DVD-A !!

Sorry for the thread hijack . . . like a poster above, I wouldn't bother with the extra channel(s) if it wasn't discrete info. There is software that does it on the fly, but how well, hmm . . . don't really have anything to a/b with for that.
 
This is probably a question for another thread, but I in my 7.2 system I have wides to the front and outer sides of the front mains, as I read that is "more natural." However, I've wanted to try the wides in the rear, or even suspended above and to the sides of the front mains.

Anyone try all three positions? Feedback? I suspect it depends on the surround mix (ambient might be better on rears, discrete on front wides, for example). But who wants to configure speakers for each different SACD/DVD-A !!

Sorry for the thread hijack . . . like a poster above, I wouldn't bother with the extra channel(s) if it wasn't discrete info. There is software that does it on the fly, but how well, hmm . . . don't really have anything to a/b with for that.

Slightly off to the rear on both sides is the standard position for the rears. You might however like me try them on the walls beside your listening position about 5 feet up from the floor and angle them down into the listening position I used a lot of velcro to do this. I find this more closely integrates with the front array. Where you have them will not produce true 5.1
 
Slightly off to the rear on both sides is the standard position for the rears. You might however like me try them on the walls beside your listening position about 5 feet up from the floor and angle them down into the listening position I used a lot of velcro to do this. Where you have them will not produce true 5.1

I guess I didn't describe it well. I have (besides the two subwoofers in the front corners) and central speaker (below my tv), two front mains and two rear mains (installed in the ceiling).

The question is where to put the extra two speakers for 7.2 sound. Audyssey seems to say you can put them 1) slightly behind the front mains, higher up, and spread further out, 2) spread out in front of the front mains and a few feet forward (my config), or 3) in the rear, spread further out than the main rears.

Don't understand why I wouldn't get the 5.2, no matter where the additional 2 speakers are?
 
I guess I didn't describe it well. I have (besides the two subwoofers in the front corners) and central speaker (below my tv), two front mains and two rear mains (installed in the ceiling).

The question is where to put the extra two speakers for 7.2 sound. Audyssey seems to say you can put them 1) slightly behind the front mains, higher up, and spread further out, 2) spread out in front of the front mains and a few feet forward (my config), or 3) in the rear, spread further out than the main rears.

Don't understand why I wouldn't get the 5.2, no matter where the additional 2 speakers are?

Back of the room about the same distance from your back as the front speakers are away from you. I have mine around 4 feet apart facing slightly inwards to the listening position. If you have your rears in the ceiling I think that duplicating them into 2 back speakers will make a huge difference in what you are hearing.
 
If you have your rears in the ceiling I think that duplicating them into 2 back speakers will make a huge difference in what you are hearing.

Ah! I get it. The roof of my den / movie theater-entertainment system is a side-wise A-frame, so the main rears in the ceiling are pointing at the sweet spot in the center of the room where the obvious recliners are for two people in front of the tv and front mains. My two-channel extra "wides" are a couple of feet wider to the right and left (and a couple of feet further in) of the main speakers.

So if I put the "wides" -- the extra 2 channels -- on the rear, further apart than the rear mains, but lower, that might be an interesting config! Putting the wides higher, wider, and behind the front mains sounds intriguing, though.
 
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