• QuadraphonicQuad welcomes you and encourages your participation! Treat all members with respect. Please keep all discussions civil, even when you have a strong opinion on a particular topic.

    Do not offer for free, offer for sale, offer for trade, or request copies or files of copyrighted material - no matter how rare or unavailable to the public they might be. We do not condone the illegal sharing of music. There are many places on the internet where you can participate in such transactions, but QuadraphonicQuad is not one of them. We are here to encourage and support new multichannel releases from those companies that still provide them and as such the distribution of illegal copies of recordings is counter-productive to that effort. Any posts of this sort will be deleted without notification.

    Please try to avoid discussions that pit one format against another. Hint for new users: make liberal use of the search facilities here at QuadraphonicQuad. Our message base is an incredibly rich resource of detailed information on virtually all topics pertaining to surround-sound. You will be surprised at what you can find with a little digging!

HiRez Poll Derringer, Rick - ALL AMERICAN BOY & SPRING FEVER [SACD]

Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:

Rate the SACD of Rick Derringer - ALL AMERICAN BOY & SPRING FEVER

  • 6

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 5

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 4

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 3

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 2

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 1: Poor Content, Surround Mix, and Fidelity

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    41

rtbluray

Hi-Res Moderator
Staff member
QQ Supporter
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
8,161
Location
Middle TN
Please post your thoughts and comments on this Multichannel SACD release from Dutton Vocalion of the two classic Rick Derringer albums "All American Boy" and "Spring Fever". This Multichannel SACD release features the Quadraphonic mixes of both albums, available commercially for the first time since the 1970s!

(y):)(n)

All American Boy
LP KZ 32481 (1973) STEREO/ZQ 32481 QUADRAPHONIC
1: ROCK AND ROLL, HOOCHIE KOO (Derringer)
2: JOY RIDE (Derringer)
3: TEENAGE QUEEN (Derringer)
4: CHEAP TEQUILA (Derringer)
5: UNCOMPLICATED (Derringer)
6: HOLD (Derringer; Smith)
7: THE AIRPORT GIVETH (THE AIRPORT TAKETH AWAY) (Derringer)
8: TEENAGE LOVE AFFAIR (Derringer)
9: IT’S RAINING (Derringer)
10: TIME WARP (Derringer)
11: SLIDE ON OVER SLINKY (Derringer)
12: JUMP, JUMP, JUMP (Derringer)
Arranger (strings): Paul Harris

Spring Fever
LP PZ 33423 (1975) STEREO/PZQ 33423 QUADRAPHONIC
13: GIMME MORE (Derringer)
14: TOMORROW (Derringer)
15: DON’T EVER SAY GOODBYE (Derringer)
16: STILL ALIVE AND WELL (Derringer)
17: ROCK (Derringer)
18: HANG ON SLOOPY (Russell; Farrell)
19: ROLL WITH ME (Derringer)
20: WALKIN’ THE DOG (Thomas)
21: HE NEEDS SOME ANSWERS (Derringer)
22: SKYSCRAPER BLUES (Derringer)
Recorded at The Record Plant, New York [13-16, 18-22]; Caribou Ranch, Colorado & The Record Plant, New York [17]

Multi-ch Stereo
All tracks available in stereo and multi-channel

SA-CD
This hybrid CD can be played on any standard CD players

CDSML8540


 

omega4

Well-known Member
QQ Supporter
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Oct 11, 2003
Messages
172
Location
Luton, UK
Have voted this a 10. Whilst I agree with ctoelle that the song writing may have some weaknesses this contains two albums with some truly engaging music and, to my ears, great quadraphonic mixes. Bearing in mind they were made in 1973 and 1975 they are very good. And the price (£11/$15 in the UK) is absolutely amazing. What I really, realy like about Dutton Vocalion is that they have the discs on sale at the point of announcing them so none of the waiting, delays, cancellations and general mucking about from the major labels. Still waiting for Bridge Over Troubled Water, The Dude and so on! Also, at the prices it's possible to try SACDs from artists that have not previously known - ok I had heard of Rick Derringer but cannot remember ever hearing him before now. 45 years wasted to some extent! Thoroughly recommended for guitar enthusiasts. And Edgar Winter on many tracks, Joe Walsh on a couple, with Chick Corea and Dan Hartman making appearances.
 

beerking

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
2,442
Location
Wantage, Oxfordshire ..UK
Have voted this a 10. Whilst I agree with ctoelle that the song writing may have some weaknesses this contains two albums with some truly engaging music and, to my ears, great quadraphonic mixes. Bearing in mind they were made in 1973 and 1975 they are very good. And the price (£11/$15 in the UK) is absolutely amazing. What I really, realy like about Dutton Vocalion is that they have the discs on sale at the point of announcing them so none of the waiting, delays, cancellations and general mucking about from the major labels. Still waiting for Bridge Over Troubled Water, The Dude and so on! Also, at the prices it's possible to try SACDs from artists that have not previously known - ok I had heard of Rick Derringer but cannot remember ever hearing him before now. 45 years wasted to some extent! Thoroughly recommended for guitar enthusiasts. And Edgar Winter on many tracks, Joe Walsh on a couple, with Chick Corea and Dan Hartman making appearances.
Have voted this a 10. Whilst I agree with ctoelle that the song writing may have some weaknesses this contains two albums with some truly engaging music and, to my ears, great quadraphonic mixes. Bearing in mind they were made in 1973 and 1975 they are very good. And the price (£11/$15 in the UK) is absolutely amazing. What I really, realy like about Dutton Vocalion is that they have the discs on sale at the point of announcing them so none of the waiting, delays, cancellations and general mucking about from the major labels. Still waiting for Bridge Over Troubled Water, The Dude and so on! Also, at the prices it's possible to try SACDs from artists that have not previously known - ok I had heard of Rick Derringer but cannot remember ever hearing him before now. 45 years wasted to some extent! Thoroughly recommended for guitar enthusiasts. And Edgar Winter on many tracks, Joe Walsh on a couple, with Chick Corea and Dan Hartman making appearances.
Completely agree. Amazingly he is still touring!! In fact so much so I've quotes you twice!! :)
 

Jim the Oldbie

800 Club - QQ All-Star
Joined
Jun 6, 2015
Messages
803
Location
Midwest USA
Such a contrast between these two mixes!

I had high hopes for this All American Boy...

I never heard the quad treatment back in the day, but I know the stereo version like the back of my hand. For better or worse, this album is a direct line to my misspent youth, maybe more than any other. I was smack in the middle of high school in 1973, and these weren't just a few records my friends & I really liked. These guys - Rick, Johnny, Edgar, Dan, Chuck, Ronnie and all the rest - were our heroes. Hell, the band I worked with covered 4 songs from this LP alone, plus 2 or 3 from Spring Fever. And while I had to chuckle when I read them described here as "juvenile and sleazy" (you're not wrong, ctoelle; some of these lyrics are pretty embarrassing these days), the songs and production on both albums still hold up really well to my ear. And yeah, they do take me back...

Anyway. I was taken by surprise (again) by how different this quad AAB sounds, compared to the stereo. This is a very elemental, dry sound. For whatever reason, very few of the studio effects (echo, reverb, compression etc.) from the stereo production have been applied here. This approach is a double-edged sword: One one hand, without all the processing, the vocals and instruments are crystal-clear - for god's sake, it sounds like Rick is sitting here playing & singing in my living room! Hearing it like this is an undeniable rush at times.

But studio effects aren't intrinsically evil, of course. When done right, they can really help push a song across the finish line by setting the right vibe, the right space. And let's face it, we're not talking classical chamber music here; these are catchy pop tunes, lush power ballads and swaggering rock & roll (sometimes all at once!) - it's completely appropriate to add some sugar & spice to a mix like this. So when we strip away the production, it becomes kind of a crap shoot. Some of the songs survive surprisingly well, while others fall down pretty hard.

On the other hand, what a difference 2 years can make! Where All American Boy feels a bit unfinished, Spring Fever sounds like stereo only better - just like we like it!

It's obvious that more time and attention was paid to carrying the production values of the stereo mix over to the quad here. The studio effects that formed the sound of the 2-channel mix have been pretty faithfully recreated. And while this may have reduced the number of you-are-there (they-are-here?) goosebump moments, I think this mix strikes a much more satisfying balance between the two approaches. It will probably become my go-to version of this album.

Random notes:
  • Anyone notice that "Teenage Queen" has a completely different vocal track? (I just can't figure out what was wrong with the original.)

  • Man, I really miss the echo effect on the guitar solos in "Time Warp." That was just a mistake.

  • But then that big fat perfect Leslie guitar comes up from behind to start "Slide On Over Slinky." Holy crap I ever thought I'd hear it like this! (Plus, it's always fun to hear that sound in the back channels, since my left surround speaker is sitting on top of an old Leslie organ speaker.)

  • Listen to Edgar's sax toward the end of "Jump, Jump, Jump," frantically echoing around behind you, as if being tossed by the waves - that's what I'm talking about. In the stereo mix, the imagery in this song is absolutely stunning, even after all these years. I wish they could've kept more of that.
Okay, that's enough. I guess I still have some strong feelings about this one; sorry for rambling as usual.

- Jim
 
Last edited:

GOS

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Messages
12,324
Location
Central Illinois
Such a contrast between these two mixes!

I had high hopes for this All American Boy...

I never heard the quad treatment back in the day, but I know the stereo version like the back of my hand. For better or worse, this album is a direct line to my misspent youth, maybe more than any other. I was smack in the middle of high school in 1973, and these weren't just a few records my friends & I really liked. These guys - Rick, Johnny, Edgar, Dan, Chuck, Ronnie and all the rest - were our heroes. Hell, the band I worked with covered 4 songs from this LP alone, plus 2 or 3 from Spring Fever. And while I had to chuckle when I read them described here as "juvenile and sleazy" (you're not wrong, ctoelle; some of these lyrics are pretty embarrassing these days), the songs and production on both albums still hold up really well to my ear. And yeah, they do take me back...

Anyway. I was taken by surprise (again) by how different this quad AAB sounds, compared to the stereo. This is a very elemental, dry sound. For whatever reason, very few of the studio effects (echo, reverb, compression etc.) from the stereo production have been applied here. This approach is a double-edged sword: One one hand, without all the processing, the vocals and instruments are crystal-clear - for god's sake, it sounds like Rick is sitting here playing & singing in my living room! Hearing it like this is an undeniable rush at times.

But studio effects aren't intrinsically evil, of course. When done right, they can really help push a song across the finish line by setting the right vibe, the right space. And let's face it, we're not talking classical chamber music here; these are catchy pop tunes, lush power ballads and swaggering rock & roll (sometimes all at once!) - it's completely appropriate to add some sugar & spice to a mix like this. So when we strip away the production, it becomes kind of a crap shoot. Some of the songs survive surprisingly well, while others fall down pretty hard.

On the other hand, what a difference 2 years can make! Where All American Boy feels a bit unfinished, Spring Fever sounds like stereo only better - just like we like it!

It's obvious that more time and attention was paid to carrying the production values of the stereo mix over to the quad here. The studio effects that formed the sound of the 2-channel mix have been pretty faithfully recreated. And while this may have reduced the number of you-are-there (they-are-here?) goosebump moments, I think this mix strikes a much more satisfying balance between the two approaches. It will probably become my go-to version of this album.

Random notes:
  • Anyone notice that "Teenage Queen" has a completely different vocal track? (I just can't figure out what was wrong with the original.)

  • Man, I really miss the echo effect on the guitar solos in "Time Warp." That was just a mistake.

  • But then that big fat perfect Leslie guitar comes up from behind to start "Slide On Over Slinky." Holy crap I ever thought I'd hear it like this! (Plus, it's always fun to hear that sound in the back channels, since my left surround speaker is sitting on top of an old Leslie organ speaker.)

  • Listen to Edgar's sax toward the end of "Jump, Jump, Jump," frantically echoing around behind you, as if being tossed by the waves - that's what I'm talking about. In the stereo mix, the imagery in this song is absolutely stunning, even after all these years. I wish they could've kept more of that.
Okay, that's enough. I guess I still have some strong feelings about this one; sorry for rambling as usual.

- Jim
where can i find this?
Dutton Vocalion

LINK
 

fredblue

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
22,357
Location
London, England
Such a contrast between these two mixes!

I had high hopes for this All American Boy...

I never heard the quad treatment back in the day, but I know the stereo version like the back of my hand. For better or worse, this album is a direct line to my misspent youth, maybe more than any other. I was smack in the middle of high school in 1973, and these weren't just a few records my friends & I really liked. These guys - Rick, Johnny, Edgar, Dan, Chuck, Ronnie and all the rest - were our heroes. Hell, the band I worked with covered 4 songs from this LP alone, plus 2 or 3 from Spring Fever. And while I had to chuckle when I read them described here as "juvenile and sleazy" (you're not wrong, ctoelle; some of these lyrics are pretty embarrassing these days), the songs and production on both albums still hold up really well to my ear. And yeah, they do take me back...

Anyway. I was taken by surprise (again) by how different this quad AAB sounds, compared to the stereo. This is a very elemental, dry sound. For whatever reason, very few of the studio effects (echo, reverb, compression etc.) from the stereo production have been applied here. This approach is a double-edged sword: One one hand, without all the processing, the vocals and instruments are crystal-clear - for god's sake, it sounds like Rick is sitting here playing & singing in my living room! Hearing it like this is an undeniable rush at times.

But studio effects aren't intrinsically evil, of course. When done right, they can really help push a song across the finish line by setting the right vibe, the right space. And let's face it, we're not talking classical chamber music here; these are catchy pop tunes, lush power ballads and swaggering rock & roll (sometimes all at once!) - it's completely appropriate to add some sugar & spice to a mix like this. So when we strip away the production, it becomes kind of a crap shoot. Some of the songs survive surprisingly well, while others fall down pretty hard.

On the other hand, what a difference 2 years can make! Where All American Boy feels a bit unfinished, Spring Fever sounds like stereo only better - just like we like it!

It's obvious that more time and attention was paid to carrying the production values of the stereo mix over to the quad here. The studio effects that formed the sound of the 2-channel mix have been pretty faithfully recreated. And while this may have reduced the number of you-are-there (they-are-here?) goosebump moments, I think this mix strikes a much more satisfying balance between the two approaches. It will probably become my go-to version of this album.

Random notes:
  • Anyone notice that "Teenage Queen" has a completely different vocal track? (I just can't figure out what was wrong with the original.)

  • Man, I really miss the echo effect on the guitar solos in "Time Warp." That was just a mistake.

  • But then that big fat perfect Leslie guitar comes up from behind to start "Slide On Over Slinky." Holy crap I ever thought I'd hear it like this! (Plus, it's always fun to hear that sound in the back channels, since my left surround speaker is sitting on top of an old Leslie organ speaker.)

  • Listen to Edgar's sax toward the end of "Jump, Jump, Jump," frantically echoing around behind you, as if being tossed by the waves - that's what I'm talking about. In the stereo mix, the imagery in this song is absolutely stunning, even after all these years. I wish they could've kept more of that.
Okay, that's enough. I guess I still have some strong feelings about this one; sorry for rambling as usual.

- Jim
ramble on! its all good!
you got me thinking about the lack of reverb on the AAB Quad vs the Stereo.. I feel kinda similar about it to the Poco "Crazy Eyes" Quad, where the Quad is much drier than the Stereo.. (I'm guessing its something to do with the SQ system not being that great at handling Rear channel reverb of sounds positioned in the Front channels or something like that?)..but whatever the reason (I don't think it's a stylistic thing as multiple engineers on various labels under the CBS umbrella mixed Quads drier than their Stereo equivalents) the upshot is it makes the music sound more modern to me somehow without all that reverb.. and I find lead vocals especially to be more natural/immediate/intimate depending on the track on the Quad than the Stereo.. the texture and feel of some of the guitar work is a bit different from the Stereo when it's so flat in your face but it is so distinct and engaging with various guitar sounds and effects panned front and back that it doesn't really need the reverb, its drier than the Stereo but it fills the room all the more.. anyhoo just my twopennuth on the 'verb (or lack of) AAB is one of my desert island Quads and I'm totally thrilled beyond words that DV have got these two beauties out (on one MCh SACD, no less!) in such stunning clarity.

no doubt for me this disc is an instant "uncomplicated" QQ "10".
 

4-earredwonder

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
11,065
ramble on! its all good!
you got me thinking about the lack of reverb on the AAB Quad vs the Stereo.. I feel kinda similar about it to the Poco "Crazy Eyes" Quad, where the Quad is much drier than the Stereo.. (I'm guessing its something to do with the SQ system not being that great at handling Rear channel reverb of sounds positioned in the Front channels or something like that?)..but whatever the reason (I don't think it's a stylistic thing as multiple engineers on various labels under the CBS umbrella mixed Quads drier than their Stereo equivalents) the upshot is it makes the music sound more modern to me somehow without all that reverb.. and I find lead vocals especially to be more natural/immediate/intimate depending on the track on the Quad than the Stereo.. the texture and feel of some of the guitar work is a bit different from the Stereo when it's so flat in your face but it is so distinct and engaging with various guitar sounds and effects panned front and back that it doesn't really need the reverb, its drier than the Stereo but it fills the room all the more.. anyhoo just my twopennuth on the 'verb (or lack of) AAB is one of my desert island Quads and I'm totally thrilled beyond words that DV have got these two beauties out (on one MCh SACD, no less!) in such stunning clarity.

no doubt for me this disc is an instant "uncomplicated" QQ "10".
Since I'm NOT at all familiar with the Stereo LP or RBCD of AAB, and I do agree with ADAM that the D~V QUAD SACD sounds like it could've been recorded yesterday, a theory could be that to compensate for the Stereo version, reverb was added to create a sense of depth to bolster the illusion of a larger listening space from the use of just two channels [or actually three if you count the phantom center channel which stereo actually creates].

When I listen on my main system to stereo recordings with NO DSP added, I've noted that sometimes I have to turn around to see if the rear channels are engaged so convincing is the illusion of depth from just the two channels.

Just a theory.
 

GOS

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Messages
12,324
Location
Central Illinois
I'd never heard either one of these Derringer titles...though I know a couple songs. I'm super pleased with the content honestly. Cheesy here and there...yep. That doesn't phase me in the least. Part of the 70's wasn't it? I had several 45's of Rick, just never owned the whole album.

This is wonderful in Quad....
I'll vote an 8 as the fidelity isn't up to Art Garfunkel quality. But the Quad and music are great.
Keep up the great work DV! I'm all in...
 

fredblue

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
22,357
Location
London, England
I'd never heard either one of these Derringer titles...though I know a couple songs. I'm super pleased with the content honestly. Cheesy here and there...yep. That doesn't phase me in the least. Part of the 70's wasn't it? I had several 45's of Rick, just never owned the whole album.

This is wonderful in Quad....
I'll vote an 8 as the fidelity isn't up to Art Garfunkel quality. But the Quad and music are great.
Keep up the great work DV! I'm all in...
say whaaaaat, Atmos Gos (Vn 7.1)..!!? 😱

to me the fidelity is as high as the spring fever is hawt..!! 🤒
(and compared to the SQ or Q8 of either Quad, its snow joke! ❄ the SACD pisses all over the old records and tapes from a great height! 🍾 )
 

steelydave

Moderator
Staff member
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Apr 21, 2002
Messages
1,742
Location
Toronto, ON
Such a contrast between these two mixes!

I had high hopes for this All American Boy...

...

On the other hand, what a difference 2 years can make! Where All American Boy feels a bit unfinished, Spring Fever sounds like stereo only better - just like we like it!

- Jim
I have to say, I really enjoyed reading your impressions of these two albums, and I think your critique about the differences (one being faithful to the stereo mix and one not) actually really highlight the two ends of the spectrum of what I love about quad. Some mixes are really like "remixes", the instrumental balance, tonal characteristics, vocal/solo takes or production choices are radically different, and others are like the stereo version, just the "3D glasses" version.

I enjoy the less faithful ones because you often get an alternate perspective on the studio performance, but there's certainly a risk involved when you go that route, because as you say, some tracks work and some don't. I think if you're overly familiar with a stereo version, any changes (even subtle ones) can be jarring. Sometimes these discs take a few listens to grow on you and you begin to enjoy them for what they are, rather than what they're not, or what they're missing.

With regard to All American Boy and Spring Fever, I think there's an easy answer as to why one is different and one is the same - All American Boy was recorded and mixed for stereo by Bill Szymczyk at Caribou Ranch in the summer of '73, and then remixed for quad by Don Young at CBS in NYC in early '74. Aside from being two entirely different people (presumably with different tastes and styles) I'm sure CBS's studio had different outboard gear, monitors, mixing desk etc than Caribou Ranch.

Adam's also on to something with the drier sound - I know for a fact that one of the CBS SQ mixing rules was that reverbs had to emanate from the same place as the thing causing them, ie if your guitar was in front, reverbs also had to be in front. But I also know that SQ encoding/decoding basically 'eats' reverb, even when it's done to spec (I think Adam can also verify this, comparing Surround Master decodes with Q8 equivalents) and those studios had a built-in 'discrete bypass' where they could flip a switch and hear what their mix would sound like SQ encoded and then SQ decoded, and I think they made adjustments to get the most out of SQ. That isn't to say the discrete mix was an afterthought, just that maximising compatibility and separation for SQ LP was the first concern since that was the way most people were listening to it. So perhaps they came to the conclusion that less reverb led to a better SQ decode - generally speaking engineers are very meticulous in what they do, I don't think any of these mixes are of the "screw it, it's good enough" variety.

By the same token, the CBS in-house quad remix guys were at their busiest in this era, and I'm sure they weren't as intimately familar with this music as we are 45 years later. Don Young did at least 10 quad remixes in '74, and probably more, these are the credited ones, with thanks to Adam's Unsung Heroes list:

Chicago - II
Mac Davis - Stop And Smell The Roses
Billy Joel - Piano Man
Billy Joel - Streetlife Serenade
Michel Legrand - 20 Songs of the Century
Poco - Cantamos
Barbra Streisand - The Way We Were
Edgar Winter Group - Shock Treatment
Johnny Winter - Saints and Sinners

So who knows, there are a lot of reasons things could be different, from totally by accident to totally on purpose. Some of Young's other quad mixes contain significant differences from the stereo versions, like the extra lead guitar in 25 or 6 to 4 on Chicago II for example. There's also that photograph of Derringer in the CBS quad studio with Larry Keyes - I know Keyes didn't mix this one, but maybe Derringer had some input on the quad mix and asked for changes to be made.

As for Spring Fever, the explanation for the quad and stereo mixes sounding similar is much simpler - Shelly Yakus engineered the album and mixed both versions at the same time, at the Record Plant NYC in early '75. So it was same person, same studio, same time, etc. Columbia was trying to encourage more of their artists to do that, or "record in quad" as they called it, but then by '76 seemingly everything changed - instead of doing most new albums in quad, it was more like "gold records only" for CBS and RCA, and everyone else got out of quad entirely, and then by the end of '76 RCA was done, and mid-'77 CBS was done too.
 

fredblue

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
22,357
Location
London, England
I have to say, I really enjoyed reading your impressions of these two albums, and I think your critique about the differences (one being faithful to the stereo mix and one not) actually really highlight the two ends of the spectrum of what I love about quad. Some mixes are really like "remixes", the instrumental balance, tonal characteristics, vocal/solo takes or production choices are radically different, and others are like the stereo version, just the "3D glasses" version.

I enjoy the less faithful ones because you often get an alternate perspective on the studio performance, but there's certainly a risk involved when you go that route, because as you say, some tracks work and some don't. I think if you're overly familiar with a stereo version, any changes (even subtle ones) can be jarring. Sometimes these discs take a few listens to grow on you and you begin to enjoy them for what they are, rather than what they're not, or what they're missing.

With regard to All American Boy and Spring Fever, I think there's an easy answer as to why one is different and one is the same - All American Boy was recorded and mixed for stereo by Bill Szymczyk at Caribou Ranch in the summer of '73, and then remixed for quad by Don Young at CBS in NYC in early '74. Aside from being two entirely different people (presumably with different tastes and styles) I'm sure CBS's studio had different outboard gear, monitors, mixing desk etc than Caribou Ranch.

Adam's also on to something with the drier sound - I know for a fact that one of the CBS SQ mixing rules was that reverbs had to emanate from the same place as the thing causing them, ie if your guitar was in front, reverbs also had to be in front. But I also know that SQ encoding/decoding basically 'eats' reverb, even when it's done to spec (I think Adam can also verify this, comparing Surround Master decodes with Q8 equivalents) and those studios had a built-in 'discrete bypass' where they could flip a switch and hear what their mix would sound like SQ encoded and then SQ decoded, and I think they made adjustments to get the most out of SQ. That isn't to say the discrete mix was an afterthought, just that maximising compatibility and separation for SQ LP was the first concern since that was the way most people were listening to it. So perhaps they came to the conclusion that less reverb led to a better SQ decode - generally speaking engineers are very meticulous in what they do, I don't think any of these mixes are of the "screw it, it's good enough" variety.

By the same token, the CBS in-house quad remix guys were at their busiest in this era, and I'm sure they weren't as intimately familar with this music as we are 45 years later. Don Young did at least 10 quad remixes in '74, and probably more, these are the credited ones, with thanks to Adam's Unsung Heroes list:

Chicago - II
Mac Davis - Stop And Smell The Roses
Billy Joel - Piano Man
Billy Joel - Streetlife Serenade
Michel Legrand - 20 Songs of the Century
Poco - Cantamos
Barbra Streisand - The Way We Were
Edgar Winter Group - Shock Treatment
Johnny Winter - Saints and Sinners

So who knows, there are a lot of reasons things could be different, from totally by accident to totally on purpose. Some of Young's other quad mixes contain significant differences from the stereo versions, like the extra lead guitar in 25 or 6 to 4 on Chicago II for example. There's also that photograph of Derringer in the CBS quad studio with Larry Keyes - I know Keyes didn't mix this one, but maybe Derringer had some input on the quad mix and asked for changes to be made.

As for Spring Fever, the explanation for the quad and stereo mixes sounding similar is much simpler - Shelly Yakus engineered the album and mixed both versions at the same time, at the Record Plant NYC in early '75. So it was same person, same studio, same time, etc. Columbia was trying to encourage more of their artists to do that, or "record in quad" as they called it, but then by '76 seemingly everything changed - instead of doing most new albums in quad, it was more like "gold records only" for CBS and RCA, and everyone else got out of quad entirely, and then by the end of '76 RCA was done, and mid-'77 CBS was done too.
thanks for all the wonderful insight, Dave. remarkable info, brilliantly explained. you're doling it all out for free! you should write a book on Quad and make a few quid! i'd buy it.

have to say i'm heartwarmed by the QQ response to this riotous rock 2-fer DV SACD (look at the 8's, 9's and 10's will ya! its going down a storm!) as i enjoyed the hell out of the SQ LPs of these two Quads the last few years so to hear them in what i'm sure will prove to be their ultimate sound quality, is just an out and out joy and to know other Quad obsessives are lapping it up too is wonderful to see.

Dave, you mention Don Young mixed Cantamos and Saints & Sinners, those are lovely rock Quads I play a lot too. Cantamos in particular is a mix where you can tell it was recorded with Quad in mind from the outset, exceptional surround sound.. I hope DV's able to give it the same treatment as these Derringer's on SACD someday.. it seldom if ever gets mentioned but I just know if more people heard the Cantamos Quad, they'd love it. I popped it on (again) last night and it really is quite something, demo Quad mix material throughout.

anyway, back to the hoochie koo man, "keep on rockin'! owww.!!" 🤪
 
Last edited:

Scott65

701 Club - QQ All-Star
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Messages
706
Location
Tasmania, Australia
thanks for all the wonderful insight, Dave. remarkable info, brilliantly explained. you're doling it all out for free! you should write a book on Quad and make a few quid! i'd buy it.

have to say i'm heartwarmed by the QQ response to this riotous rock 2-fer DV SACD (look at the 8's, 9's and 10's will ya! its going down a storm!) as i enjoyed the hell out of the SQ LPs of these two Quads the last few years so to hear them in what i'm sure will prove to be their ultimate sound quality, is just an out and out joy and to know other Quad obsessives are lapping it up too is wonderful to see.

Dave, you mention Don Young mixed Cantamos and Saints & Sinners, those are lovely rock Quads I play a lot too. Cantamos in particular is a mix where you can tell it was recorded with Quad in mind from the outset, exceptional surround sound.. I hope DV's able to give it the same treatment as these Derringer's on SACD someday.. it seldom if ever gets mentioned but I just know if more people heard the Cantamos Quad, they'd love it. I popped it on (again) last night and it really is quite something, demo Quad mix material throughout.

anyway, back to the hoochie coo man, "keep on rockin'! owww.!!" 🤪
I'm hoping the number of sales encourages similar releases.
 
2
Group builder
Top