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Elvis in Memphis Q8 - What the heck happened here?

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Q-Eight

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Sep 30, 2003
Messages
3,079
Location
Castlegar, BC, Canada
So, you know me always playing the revisionist historian here but I've been playing with this album trying to figure out what happened.

Firstly, the channels are all over the place. I've found the best is to put the two channels with the loudest bass in the front and the two channels with the loudest drums in the rear. This sort of jives with the early RCA cartridges, like the Guess Who's with bass in the front, drums out back.

But there's still something wrong, I wish I could show a picture of it from Audition, but it's so minute, I can't really show it visually. But the channels are out of sync! Not by much, but enough that:

A) It's very noticeable as there is no really defined phantom center channel
B) since the vocals are in all channels, there's no phase cancellation.

I think B) is the smoking gun. My speculative theory is that during duplication, not only did they mess the channel assignments up, they may have had some weird phasing issue. Delaying (what were essentially, NOW) the rear channels by 6 milliseconds killed that issue. But in the process, they cocked the whole bloody thing up! Like I said, 6 milliseconds is hard to show graphically. But by trying every trick in the book with this album, delaying certain channels by exactly .006 seconds made the vocals sound correct and emanate from a phantom center channel!

Through this process, I've also noticed some songs with ample instrumentation go four-corner discrete. Other songs that are more sparse still keep the drums and bass in the center channels, but go for the classic RCA "four-walls" style with say, backup girls in both lefts and strings in both rights.

One song I did have to invert the rear channels completely to stop a phasing issue..... like I said, this album is all over the place. But, I believe I'm on the right track to cracking it's code!

Elvis_Offset.jpg
 

J. PUPSTER

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
May 30, 2017
Messages
4,206
Location
CALIFORNIA (CENTRAL)
So, you know me always playing the revisionist historian here but I've been playing with this album trying to figure out what happened.

Firstly, the channels are all over the place. I've found the best is to put the two channels with the loudest bass in the front and the two channels with the loudest drums in the rear. This sort of jives with the early RCA cartridges, like the Guess Who's with bass in the front, drums out back.

But there's still something wrong, I wish I could show a picture of it from Audition, but it's so minute, I can't really show it visually. But the channels are out of sync! Not by much, but enough that:

A) It's very noticeable as there is no really defined phantom center channel
B) since the vocals are in all channels, there's no phase cancellation.

I think B) is the smoking gun. My speculative theory is that during duplication, not only did they mess the channel assignments up, they may have had some weird phasing issue. Delaying (what were essentially, NOW) the rear channels by 6 milliseconds killed that issue. But in the process, they cocked the whole bloody thing up! Like I said, 6 milliseconds is hard to show graphically. But by trying every trick in the book with this album, delaying certain channels by exactly .006 seconds made the vocals sound correct and emanate from a phantom center channel!

Through this process, I've also noticed some songs with ample instrumentation go four-corner discrete. Other songs that are more sparse still keep the drums and bass in the center channels, but go for the classic RCA "four-walls" style with say, backup girls in both lefts and strings in both rights.

One song I did have to invert the rear channels completely to stop a phasing issue..... like I said, this album is all over the place. But, I believe I'm on the right track to cracking it's code!

View attachment 43804
What version of AA are you using?
 

winopener

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Mar 2, 2002
Messages
3,689
Does the 0.006 delay affect the whole tape, or even that is on a track-by-track basis?
 

winopener

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Mar 2, 2002
Messages
3,689
Quite a mess... please keep the good work.
 

jaap74

Well-known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Messages
132
Wish some of these Elvis quads were available for purchase somewhere.........
 
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