Formatting USB for car audio surround. (Using JRiver Formatting). Questions.

[MidiMagic]

1. Compression settings are exactly what it sounds like. 0 is no compression (and has a bitrate of the equivalent WAV file) whilst 8 reduces the bitrate the most.
3. Do NOT do Dolby Digital Encoding.
4. For compatibility reasons, I recommend 5.1.

In other words, it is data compression, not sound level compression.

 

[marpow]

3. Do NOT do Dolby Digital Encoding.

OK, I got to know, why not, Dolby Digital Encoding?
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As far as USB drives go it seems this decoder, I have only likes Fat32.
My other question is what is exFat and NTFS, I guess I could go to Wikipedia?
What is maximum for USB drive with Fat32?


Today I will start my experiment with re-formatting my USB drives.
I have 7 external drives.
Two- 32G Fat32. These will be my experiment for 5.1 and 4.0.
The remaining will be for stereo.
One- T5 SSD, NTFS
One- T1 Thumb NTFS
One- 64G exFat (default)
Two- 128G exFat (default) or NTFS (I thought when I purchased this from Amazon I was getting a Fat32 128G)

I just had to, I have a good relationship with Amazon, so I purchased ANOTHER UNIT it's the only way I will know if the one I have is crap or not.

Thanks for tips and knowledge.

 

[Marplot]

Max size on fat32 depends on sector size but regardless it caps at 16 TB with 4 TB as a single file (OK 4 TB - 1 byte if you want to be pedantic).
exFAT is basically fat32 that can exceed the 4 TB file size.
NTFS is Windows file system type that started with NT (always cracked me up Windows New Technology NT 3.1 .. NT means New Technology so they were double dipping in the same sentence)

 

[marpow]

@Marplot thanks, being my decoder says, can go up to 128G I assume there is no point in going Fat32 drive higher than that?

Another question in regard to formatting my surround files I assumed that 24bit is the only way to go, but I can go lower 16 & 8, or higher. Should I just stick with 24bit?

I am making a ledger of one song, my experiment will have up to 5 versions of formatting.
Definitely in school today and paying attention to the teacher.

 

[SACD_ripper]

being my decoder says, can go up to 128G I assume there is no point in going Fat32 drive higher than that?

There is no harm in trying a larger storage device, often the manual is wrong and/or it was never updated past what cursory initial testing was done by the manufacturer.
This means they print a 128GB limit, not because that is actually baked into the firmware, but because that's all they were willing to test and certify as working at the time they wrote the manual.
With storage drives, there is no good reason why a 128GB drive would work but a 256 or 512GB drive would not, unless they have intentionally limited it in the device's firmware, the device stupidly/lazily utilizing LBA28, which means the device can only address 128GB of storage. If they used LBA48 (the standard since 2003) as they properly should have, then only the FAT32 (MS-DOS) limit of 2TB would apply.
Sadly, some devices are saddled with LBA28 addressing, but that will almost never be specified in any published specs, so the only way to know for sure is to try it. More on Logical Block Addressing.
Trying it does not mean you can just stick a larger capacity drive in and say "hey wow, it works!" Unfortunately the real test involves writing data to the drive past the 128GB point, and then see if the device instantly corrupts it or not. If it does, then the 128GB limit is likely due to use of LBA28 in firmware.

 

[marpow]

Excellent Info @SACD_ripper

I have just formatted a SACD to FLAC, 5 different formats of one song, they all work fine on home rig, basically on a quick listen no sonic difference.
The first I did a couple of weeks ago, with all auto setting to FLAC did not work at all in car decoder.
Lets see if these 4 below work.
All zero compression, all 24bit.
All 5.1 Channel
Two with NONE-output, 1 with JRSS mixing and 1 with no upmix or downmix
Two with Dolby Digital-output (have to see for myself. 1 with JRSS mixing and 1 with no upmix or downmix

 

[citysoundman]

Another question in regard to formatting my surround files I assumed that 24bit is the only way to go, but I can go lower 16 & 8, or higher. Should I just stick with 24bit?

I would stay 24-bit to avoid conversion, unless smaller file size is really important for your situation. Which it may be considering you're using 6 channel files. I'm pretty sure 24-bit files are 50% larger in size than 16-bit. If you're just making files for car listening though, the difference between 24 & 16-bit may not be noticeable when you're on the road.

 

[Marplot]

They are spot on, stay with 24bit since you will not have any files > 4TB in size.
As for USB drive size, SACD is correct that it may be certified at a certain size only because of release date. I would start big and reduce it if it isn't recognized.

 

[timbre4]

Max size on fat32 depends on sector size but regardless it caps at 16 TB with 4 TB as a single file (OK 4 TB - 1 byte if you want to be pedantic).
exFAT is basically fat32 that can exceed the 4 TB file size.
NTFS is Windows file system type that started with NT (always cracked me up Windows New Technology NT 3.1 .. NT means New Technology so they were double dipping in the same sentence)

FWIW - From my own (fail #2 & fail #4) experience:
1. I thought exFAT (FAT64) would be fine as it was presented to as an option in Windows 10 formatting. Nope. Must be MBR / FAT32 for Oppo BDP-93. [the Oppo BDP-103 likes MBR / NTFS and 5TB drive is OK]
2. Thought I might have tricked my way past the 2TB partition limit of FAT32 with a 3TB drive formatted as MBR / FAT 32. I plugged it in and played Quad folder fine, but when I switched to Surround 5.1 - with some portion past 2TB recognized limit - NOPE; the drive stopped working (corrupted as SACD_Ripper says above). Plugged it back into PC and the Surround 5.1 folder was no longer listed. Reformatted drive back to NTFS for data storage.

3. For friends with Oppo BDP-93 players, I prepare WD Easystore 2TB drives as MBR / FAT32 and provide selected album folders based on guesses of their musical tastes. These USB powered drives move quick enough; $55 on the right day.

 

[marpow]

I also notice on these (SACD to FLAC) conversions, the sample rate goes from DSD64 to 352.8KHz, not sure if that means anything.

 

[timbre4]

I also notice on these (SACD to FLAC) conversions, the sample rate goes from DSD64 to 352.8KHz, not sure if that means anything.

That's just 1 bit SACD technology trying to impress you. <G>

 

[citysoundman]

352.8KHz is the PCM sample rate equivalent of DSD64. (PCM and DSD are completely different animals, as @timbre4 mentions the 1 bit format for DSD ). When you divide 352.8 by 4 you get the more useable sample rate of 88.2KHz, which is what is standard when converting from DSD. Always best to down sample by an even division, which is why 88.2K is preferred over 96K for this.

 

[marpow]

OK, going to try. Set ALL input/output to 88.200Hz.

This sucks. Getting frustrated, don't give up.

 

[SACD_ripper]

[the Oppo BDP-103 likes MBR / NTFS and 5TB drive is OK]

The 103 can also accept exFAT formatted drives, but in all cases the partition scheme must be MBR.

 

[marpow]

OK, I think I might have made real good progress, still sounds like shit but finally legible.
I have tried probably 10 different ways of formatting.
This last conversion I set :
Electric Ladyland BD-A 24/96 tracks 10 & 11.
Output Encoding-None
Bit Rate-24
Channels-5.1
Mixing-JRSS (recommended) still don't no the definition of that, JRiver thing? Other choice is "no upmixing or downmixing".
And finally selected Sample Rate:
1st- 88.2 better.
2nd-48 best, actually not too bad, I think I will stop here and hope that DSP JL Audio Tun app on iPad can put it all together.

I played every version throughout this process on home rig McIntosh MX122 and Exasound e38DAC, using JRiver as the player, and it did not matter what I threw at it, the home rig played all.
I am not used to this finnicky car thing, really stretching my abilities.
Thanks all.
Any more tips/suggestions/comments, feel free, I am all ears.

 

[Marplot]

Looks solid to me. As mentioned above, the 88.2 is really for when you want DSD64 conversion.

Going from BD you should be fine keeping the 96k sample rate unless your car has an issue in which case 48k and then 44.1k are probably what you want.

 

[marpow]

Yeah, I think this 5.1 Decoder that is on my post #1, is not the sharpest tool in the shed, very finnicky.

When I do any conversion/formatting in 2.0 the stock head unit (UConnect Dodge) and goes out into the new amps and speakers, there is zero problems, regardless how I format, it's just this who knows where in China 5.1 thing made.
Only directions are the ones on Amazon, none in the box, not a good sign. Live and learn.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Just my 2 cents here.
With regard to PCM sample rates, consider this.

Most lower end AVRs cannot process DSP at 96kHz. Almost all will at least revert to 48kHz when using DSP and bass management. Some will immediately down sample to 48kHz no matter what (ask about a recent lesson I recently learned about this fact). The processor linked above looks to be about as capable as a low end AVR, if not something less. Even though it "supports" high sample rates, that is manufacturer speak for it will accept high sample rates. But it will not process high sample rates.

With the storage handicapped layout you have, there is probably little to be gained from storing 96kHz files. Even 88.2kHz SACD conversions might better be served by going to 44.1kHz. is there a way to get a spec to find out what the internal processor is running at?

 

[marpow]

Just my 2 cents here.
With regard to PCM sample rates, consider this.

Most lower end AVRs cannot process DSP at 96kHz. Almost all will at least revert to 48kHz when using DSP and bass management. Some will immediately down sample to 48kHz no matter what (ask about a recent lesson I recently learned about this fact). The processor linked above looks to be about as capable as a low end AVR, if not something less. Even though it "supports" high sample rates, that is manufacturer speak for it will accept high sample rates. But it will not process high sample rates.

With the storage handicapped layout you have, there is probably little to be gained from storing 96kHz files. Even 88.2kHz SACD conversions might better be served by going to 44.1kHz. is there a way to get a spec to find out what the internal processor is running at?

No, there is nothing I even posted a question to company on Amazon, but they will never answer. If I have to bet money it is a $191.00 piece of junk.
I purchased two more, now getting expensive that I will use for a look, and then send back to Amazon.
When purchasing whatever from these China only company's there is big risk in the product, but at least with Amazon you can get your money back.
I should have posted pictures of the front of car build, very cool how it came out.
I am convinced at this point the decoder in 5.1 will only play zero compression, Fat32 USB, 24 bit and 48KHz sample rate.
It's a car, even at any bit and sample rate, it should sound awesome, as long as it decodes into the separate channels that the re-mixer intended.
I am going to let it go for the weekend, Disney On Ice with the 6 year old grand daughter tomorrow and bar b q with the 7 month old grand son on Sunday.
Plus I have a 5TB SSD to fill up with stereo, that will be a job.

 

[MidiMagic]

What a mish-mosh mess!

This might work, that could work, and the results gotten by who, what, and I dunno might be different yet. Obviously there is no standard of behavior between two such devices.

At least computers have device drivers to recognize each kind of drive. What do these other players have?