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GRT Q8 C/H question

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winopener

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Several of you talked about the different mixes that graces the GRT Q8 with a C prefix or a H suffix.
IIRC the artist involved were Grass Roots, Steely Dan and Jim Croce.

Now i've spotted Tommy James & the Shondells: white cart version has the C prefix, blue cart has the H suffix.
Someone knows the differences between the two releases, if any?

(Images infos: C version is mine - with graphics restored for dvd-a coversion, H version is from Ebay).
 
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Q-Eight

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I'm collecting all the GRT's I can!! I'm watching a Jim Croce on ebay that has an H suffix, while the tape I have has a C prefix.

The two pairs of tapes I currently have are by Joe Walsh and The Grass Roots.
With the Grass Roots tapes, the mixes differ and the "black dot" version has the left channel error fixed. With the Joe Walsh tapes, the mix is identical, but again, the black dot version fixes the left channel error the other tape has.

I'm going to watch that Tommy James tape! I want it :D:D:D
 

winopener

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Grass Root may be the only one, and the C/H shows a channel misplacement that has been corrected?
On my tape Mony Mony has TJ vocals on rear left... doesn't seems quite right; got to check it with a dts cd.
 

JonUrban

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Here's a picture of the one I'm going to eBay in a few weeks. It's different in color than the white one above.........
 

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Q-Eight

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Jon: Wanna sell it right now outside ebay? :D

Winopener: I have a DTS version and TJ's vocals on Mony,Mony come from front left only.

This would be a THIRD example then that the C/H on the cat. # corrects a channel location issue.
 

winopener

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Oh my God... there's *another* variation for the Joe Walsh cart: i do have the H version but this time isn't a C corrected with black letter, it's Printed as H.
Scan coming soon.
 

winopener

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Here it is.
So... H is the definitive quad mixes and C is a wrong one for some reason?
 
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winopener

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Will it show now?
 
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vinylguy4

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I have some other's that have the black dot with H prefix.
Count Basie - ABC command quad.
Focus - both have the black dot on mine.
 

JonUrban

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This info is wrong, but I am leaving this post here for archive purposes. See post #20 below for the correct response!

I think you guys are looking for something that is not there.

Just like the Columbia LPs, the difference between the CQ-3xxxx and the PCQ-3xxxx is merely the list price.

I believe that the difference in these GRT carts has also to do with the list price. The earlier, non-dotted carts were probably listed at $6.99, and the later carts listed at $7.99. By placing the DOT on the existing stock, they could raise the price, just as Columbia put the stickers with PCQ over the CQ numbers.
 

JonUrban

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About 1974, I think. They put stickers over the CQ number, as shown below.

 

Q-Eight

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But the fact is that there is no difference between the Columbia discs content-wise. They are identical no matter which version. With the GRT tapes, there IS a difference in content.

The way I guess we could prove your theory Jon, is to find original wrappings with price stickers on them.
 

winopener

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Looking at the GRT-side of things, the best way to clarify thing will be to list what has been released in both C/H format, and when.
My Arista/GRT carts are all H.
Jim Croce 3 C carts, "Photographs" H
Four Tops all C
Synergy H

So it may be a "price" issue, because all C carts are between 70-74 and all H are later issue. A single Arista C cart would prove wrong that, since all Arista are from 1975/1976.
Remains to explain why the different mixes between C and H. Maybe the more incoming from the sale price difference made it worthwhile to fix a bad mix.
 

Q-Eight

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Looking at the GRT-side of things, the best way to clarify thing will be to list what has been released in both C/H format, and when.
My Arista/GRT carts are all H.
Jim Croce 3 C carts, "Photographs" H
Four Tops all C
Synergy H
Grass Roots C/H
Joe Walsh C/H
Tommy James C/H
Jim Croce "I Got a Name" both C/H

Thus far, the "H" ones seem to be the "fixed" versions. I hope to win the bid on the Jim Croce "I got a Name" [H] tape and compare to the [C] I already have.

So it may be a "price" issue, because all C carts are between 70-74 and all H are later issue. A single Arista C cart would prove wrong that, since all Arista are from 1975/1976.
Remains to explain why the different mixes between C and H. Maybe the more incoming from the sale price difference made it worthwhile to fix a bad mix.
It could be a bit of both, not only identifiying which tape has the "correct" channel assignment and that since they had to go back and fix the error, they're now charging $1.00 per tape extra to compensate for the extra time involved.
 

winopener

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I suppose this is the first release, white shell and label
 
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Q-Eight

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Just bringing an old post back from the dead. I'm fairly certain now I have solid proof about the GRT C or H cartridges:

Three Dog Night - Hard Labour doesn't count. It's the only N in my collection so far.

Grass Roots 16 Greatest - C swapped, H not.
Joe Walsh - Smoker You Drink - C swapped, H not.
Jim Croce - I got a Name - C swapped, H not.
Jim Croce - Don't Mess around w/ Jim - C swapped, H not.
Jim Croce - Life & Times - C swapped, H not.
Focus - Moving Waves - C swapped, H not.
Focus - Live at the Rainbow - C swapped, H not.
All Three Steely Dans - C swapped, H not. (Though on Pretzel Logic, can anyone really tell? :D)

That's a lot of tapes! I've seen (but do not own) several Donna Fargo & Roy Clark Q8's with the Dot's and H's as well. So there seem to be a LOT of tapes out there with either a channel error or the correction. Suffice it to say, if it's got the black dot and an H, or simply the H - it's a proper quad mix.

After seeing the Quad master of that Three Dog Night album, I've come to the conclusion that those at the reproducing plant did not pay attention to channel assignments. Not a big deal in stereo, BIG deal in Quad.

On the TDN master, channel assignments were:

T1: FL
T2: BL
T3: FR
T4: BR

If someone wasn't paying attention, and mapped track 2 to front right, track 3 to back left and track 4 to back right, well that my friends explains the classic GRT channel error!

*Takes a bow* Thank you, Thank you.

I have yet to find 'corrected' versions of the Best of Mountain or Chuck Berry's Q8. I corrected the Chuck Berry one myself with a DTS conversion.
 

Philip Spinner

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Here is my 2 cents for what it's worth. The GRT customer back in the early days were listening in their autos. The classic speaker configuration was two small speakers up front and two 6x9 speakers in the rear. This worked great for stereo. When GRT started receiving quad masters they discovered that most of the bass was from front channels and they surmised that they would not sound good in the auto due to speaker configuration. So GRT decided to fix the problem by swapping two channels. This solution worked great in the car because now you had one of those front bass channels in the back using that trunk as a baffle. They decided to label these tapes with a C for car mix. After a while more people started listening to these tapes in the house so GRT stopped the practice of swapping channels and left them alone. These had the H on them for home mix. To save money they relabeled all the C carts at one time by covering the C with a black dot and adding an H. Problem was they did not correct all of the actual tapes so that is why not all H carts are corrected. A great example is Tommy James and the Shondels Greatest Hits. The C cart is swapped so there is always something happening in the rears. On the H cart or home mix the first minute or two of Crimson and Clover has dead silence in the back as it should.
Phil.
 
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