I need CD-4 help?

QuadraphonicQuad

Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
R

ranzy

Guest
I am new to owning a quad system. I grew up listening to quad because my dad bought a Pioneer QX-747 and a Pioneer PL-120 turntable which has an S-Shaped Tonearm w/ Lateral Balance Weight & an Audio-Technica AT12s Diamond Shibata Stylus (Tapered Cantilever) w/ a Dual Magnet Cartridge.

As a kid I can remember listing to records with him and he pointed out to me the 4 channel separation. I didn't really understand how a record could produce 4 channel separation, (I did understand stereo records) but I thought quad was cool. When I was in my early 20's I helped my dad replace his QX-747 with an Onkyo stereo amp, but never really wondered why he was replacing his old amp. He kept the QX-747 in the closet because he just couldn't part with it for some reason. At some point after that I did find out that it was broken, but I didn't really care about it too much. My father passed away on July 4, 2002 and I inherited some of his stuff. (Now I care about it) My mother is just fine but didn't want the old receiver or the record player, or even the Pioneer 8-Track player for that matter, so she gave them to me, along with all his 45's, albums and 8-track tapes.

I am self taught board level repair type of a guy, so I first found that the phono pre-amp and power supply were defective and this was the reason that my dad quit using the receiver. I was able to repair a couple of cold solders on the power supply and replace a few transistors on the preamp and I was off and going with the old system.

And now, Finally to my problem! I was making a few adjustments with the CD-4 setup record and everything seemed to be going fine. The separation was really cool and I was showing my son how good it sounded. The problem started to show as a popping sound only during CD-4 play, and then it all stopped. It just played in stereo and the red CD-4 light went out. It just so happens that I had another QX-747 that I bought on eBay for light bulbs and parts to fix the other problems, (I bid on it before I had fixed the board problems so I just had an extra one now) so I hooked the turntable up to the other amp and it played in cd-4 only for a few seconds and it too was popping and it also quit working.

I ordered two new Shibata styli from Garage-A-Records because I figured that my old AT12S was just worn. My plan was to only use a new stylus on quad records and the old stylus on stereo records because it sounds just fine on them. I even bought a new head shell and a used AT12SA cartridge so that I would only have to change the head shell. Now I realize that's not a good idea. I would have to adjust the tonearm weight every time I switched the head shell, so I don't plan to do that, but anyway none of the styli will play cd-4. The Old stylus has a 12S under the Audio Technica logo and I do believe it is just worn out. I wonder if the two new Styli are even Shibata because they do not have the 12S on the housing. Just the name Audio Technica under the logo. I went to www.garage-a-records.com website to see if the part number I got was at least supposed to be Shibata and it is, because it is Audio Technica and it is white.

Any Ideas?

Ranzy Campbell

 
Gee, I feel old! THanks for the post and the story about your father. It's nice to hear stories like that.

Hmmm. I am sure you will get help from Cai or thequadfather1 or many other members on your CD-4 problem. It sounds more like electronics then cartridge ot me.

Anyway, welcome to the board!

:-jon
 
This one is a little out of my league... could it be an impedance matching problem? Too high of output voltage from the cart? I dunno... I'm not familiar with the receiver. I assume it has an integrated demodulator. Is there a selector for the cartridge load? Some demodulators have the ability to switch between ceramic and moving magnet type cartridges. Perhaps this one has that feature and it was set incorrectly? I'm shooting in the dark here...

 
CD4 is tricky to get right. It does sound to me, as someone who is also feeling quite old at this moment after reading your post, that the problem is with the receiver and not the head end. If this is the case, you would probably be better off getting an outboard cd 4 demodulator in the event that the receiver works well otherwise. The built in demodulators weren't as good, and its probably not worth spending a bunch of money on obsolete parts. Good Luck! And another thing, I can't believe when I 'go' that my kids will have any interest in reurrecting my system, so I would say your dad was a pretty lucky guy all in all.
Marc
 
I'm still willing to spend a little bit more money on this one. I even bought a quad Pioneer R2R, a stereo cassette deck and an EQ on eBay from the same era to complete the set.

I have my eye on one more QX-747 that is broken on eBay right now and for only $20, I will most likely get it just for more parts, you know for the future. I may change out the decoder board again to see if that makes it all better.
 
I don't have experience with the 747, but I am very familiar with the Pioneer QX-949, the top end model from that same Pioneer line up. I purchased my Qx-949 new in the 70's. It is still running strong today. However, I never, ever got the built in cd-4 demodulator to work well. In fact, I gave up on quad records shortly after purchasing the unit in the 70's. Over the years I have tried to make the proper adjustments and get the cd 4 working on this unit, but it has never worked well. I have never experienced the exact problem you are describing, but I can tell you for certain that you are probably never going to be happy with the performance of the built in cd-4 demodulator iin the Pioneer.
I am just now attempting to get my quad record system up and running again after many years. I happened to be lucky enough to find a Marantz CD-400 outboard cd-4 demodulator at a thrift store for $8. I checked it out last week and it decodes the records flawlessly. So, I would highly recommend that if you want to play cd-4 records you should track down a good cd-4 outboard decoder from that era. By the way, if you should ever decide to venture into SQ quad records the Pioneer built in SQ decoder is even worse than the cd-4. Once again, the only way to go for quad record playback is a good outboard decoder.
The Pioneer is a great amp and will do a wonderful job powering your quad 8's and quad reel. But don't drive yourself crazy trying to get the built in decoders working. I've tried for about 30 years and have finally given up.
Welcome to the world of quad. Stop by my website sometime and maybe we can do some trading in the future.
<a href="http://keepontrackin.mybravenet.com/qtrade.htm" target="top">Keep On Trackin! Quad Trade Page</a>
 
OK, nevermind my first post. I just found the problem and it was my fault. In my first attempts to fix the original problems, I made a bad solder connection of my own on the sub channel separation board. I still don't know why the second machine didn't work, but I know that I didn't try too hard to adjust it since it seemed to have the same problem as my unit had.

Anyway, after posting my message to this board, I just decieded to get back inside the back of that machine and fix it. During my checking and testing with the covers off, one of my solders just came off while I was moving the wires out of the way. That wire was the 30 volt power to the board. Even though I checked for power I was putting my lead on the wire and not the post.

I'm back in business.

Thanks anyway and I hope to be able to help someone here someday.

Ranzy
 
Sounds like you're good to go. Incidently, if the CD-4 unit performed well before, it should perform well again, after a repair. Parts for these units are not expensive. There is a modern cartridge that costs about $45.00 that works with CD-4, it is the Audio Technica AT331LP. The stylii are relatively availlable and are about $22.00 . Use them for everything, because if you buy 'em as you need 'em, they will continue to be availlable. (It doesn't hurt to have a stash of them either, in case the supply dries up. Happy Listening, and let me know how that Pioneer performs with CD-4.

The Quadfather
 
I could have used that before I spent close to $100 on the two new ones I got from Garage.

Oh well...

Ranzy
 
Back
Top