King Biscuit Experiment

[dr8track]

Well, I've been fascinated by the King Biscuit quadraphonic radio broadcasts since I first heard about them. You can do some searching in the archives and find more info about them, but in a nutshell, the KB concerts were recorded in SQ quad, broadcast over the airwaves in stereo and then decoded using an SQ decoder in the listeners home. They were distributed to radio stations in various formats, depending on the era. Originally they were on vinyl, then reel to reel (possibly the vinyl and reel to reel were distributed during the same era dependant upon what the radio station preferred) and in later years on CD. Some, but not all the KB concerts were recorded in SQ quad. In the early recordings, Bill Menken, the original KB announcer says, "This concert is being broadcast in SQ quadraphonic stereo." The thing that always puzzled me was the reel to reel concerts that were SQ encoded. I have managed to snag a couple of these original radio station recordings in Ebay auctions. The puzzling thing was that when I played them back on a quad reel they had four channels of info. But that made no sense since the recordings were SQ encoded stereo. Someone finally pointed out to me that these were not traditional stereo 4 track recordings, (and they definitely weren't four channel quadraphonic recordings) they were stereo 2 track recordings. The radio stations used the professional 2 track equipment rather than the 4 track stereo that was more popular with consumers. So, my question was, how do you play a two track recording through a SQ decoder and be sure you're getting the full signal needed for quad sound? I don't think it's possible. You're going to be missing something if you're not playing all the info on a 2 track stereo reel. So, a friend of mine who does have a two track reel offered to play back my radio reels, run them into a four channel mixer and mix the resulting signal to a two channel recording (in this case a 4 track stereo reel recording.) That is what I was trying to run through my Lafayette SQ-W and thanks to Quad Bob I've got it running correctly. I've been listening to a Climax Blues Band and Baker Gurvitz Army concert recorded in SQ and decoded on my Lafayette and I have to say it sounds pretty good. I don't have a direct comparison, but I think it is more discrete than some of the cdr's I've received over the years of KB reels that were not played on a 2 channel reel and mixed down to a 4 track recording. I haven't heard the Baker Gurvitz Army side of the tape yet, but i'll report back when i do. This may be the secret to getting the full quad effects from the original KB SQ reels.

 

[The Quadfather]

A quad reel machine will play a two track recording just fine. What you will get is two channels will have one program channel, and the other two will have the other. You will have to figure out two channels that are different and feed them to the decoder. It should not affect the fidelity, since the two tracks should cover the four pickups on the heads. Another common problem you will see with professional recordings is that some are recorded at 15 IPS. This is unfortunately more difficult to cure, since most consumer decks only play 7 1/2 IPS as the fast speed.

The Quadfather

Well, I've been fascinated by the King Biscuit quadraphonic radio broadcasts since I first heard about them. You can do some searching in the archives and find more info about them, but in a nutshell, the KB concerts were recorded in SQ quad, broadcast over the airwaves in stereo and then decoded using an SQ decoder in the listeners home. They were distributed to radio stations in various formats, depending on the era. Originally they were on vinyl, then reel to reel (possibly the vinyl and reel to reel were distributed during the same era dependant upon what the radio station preferred) and in later years on CD. Some, but not all the KB concerts were recorded in SQ quad. In the early recordings, Bill Menken, the original KB announcer says, "This concert is being broadcast in SQ quadraphonic stereo." The thing that always puzzled me was the reel to reel concerts that were SQ encoded. I have managed to snag a couple of these original radio station recordings in Ebay auctions. The puzzling thing was that when I played them back on a quad reel they had four channels of info. But that made no sense since the recordings were SQ encoded stereo. Someone finally pointed out to me that these were not traditional stereo 4 track recordings, (and they definitely weren't four channel quadraphonic recordings) they were stereo 2 track recordings. The radio stations used the professional 2 track equipment rather than the 4 track stereo that was more popular with consumers. So, my question was, how do you play a two track recording through a SQ decoder and be sure you're getting the full signal needed for quad sound? I don't think it's possible. You're going to be missing something if you're not playing all the info on a 2 track stereo reel. So, a friend of mine who does have a two track reel offered to play back my radio reels, run them into a four channel mixer and mix the resulting signal to a two channel recording (in this case a 4 track stereo reel recording.) That is what I was trying to run through my Lafayette SQ-W and thanks to Quad Bob I've got it running correctly. I've been listening to a Climax Blues Band and Baker Gurvitz Army concert recorded in SQ and decoded on my Lafayette and I have to say it sounds pretty good. I don't have a direct comparison, but I think it is more discrete than some of the cdr's I've received over the years of KB reels that were not played on a 2 channel reel and mixed down to a 4 track recording. I haven't heard the Baker Gurvitz Army side of the tape yet, but i'll report back when i do. This may be the secret to getting the full quad effects from the original KB SQ reels.

 

[Cai Campbell]

I think what George is saying is that he is worried that a 1/4" four-track reel player cannot properly read a 1/4" two-track (single direction) reel. As George indicates, when played on a 4-track machine, there is content in all four channels going in the same direction. This is different from a regular four-track stereo tape where the direction is reversed on two of the channels, so there are effectively two "sides" just like a regular LP.

I'm not totally familiar with the different tape formats, especially those used by radio stations, but I understand George's concern. Is it possible that radio stations employed 1/4" two-track players (single direction) that used 1/8" of the tape for each channel? This would allow for better resolution and dynamic range that would certainly be compromised if played back on a four-track machine. The alternative is that they recorded the same program material twice in the same direction! Either way, it seems odd...

 

[Malcolm2010]

I think what George is saying is that he is worried that a 1/4" four-track reel player cannot properly read a 1/4" two-track (single direction) reel. As George indicates, when played on a 4-track machine, there is content in all four channels going in the same direction. This is different from a regular four-track stereo tape where the direction is reversed on two of the channels, so there are effectively two "sides" just like a regular LP.

I'm not totally familiar with the different tape formats, especially those used by radio stations, but I understand George's concern. Is it possible that radio stations employed 1/4" two-track players (single direction) that used 1/8" of the tape for each channel? This would allow for better resolution and dynamic range that would certainly be compromised if played back on a four-track machine. The alternative is that they recorded the same program material twice in the same direction! Either way, it seems odd...

Chaps,
This is standard half track format, when played on a quad reel deck you will get deflection on all 4 meters, but the output will be stereo. There will be slight issues with alignment and phase anomolies between tracks, but if you choose either tracks 1 &3 or 2&4 you should get a decent reproduction of the original. If needed I can transcribe these to a more "normal" format as I have a Revox A700 half track machine (3 speed 3.75, 7.5 and 15 ips) as well as a Tascam 34B 4 channel deck...

Hope this helps

Malcolm

 

[dr8track]

I think what George is saying is that he is worried that a 1/4" four-track reel player cannot properly read a 1/4" two-track (single direction) reel. As George indicates, when played on a 4-track machine, there is content in all four channels going in the same direction. This is different from a regular four-track stereo tape where the direction is reversed on two of the channels, so there are effectively two "sides" just like a regular LP.

I'm not totally familiar with the different tape formats, especially those used by radio stations, but I understand George's concern. Is it possible that radio stations employed 1/4" two-track players (single direction) that used 1/8" of the tape for each channel? This would allow for better resolution and dynamic range that would certainly be compromised if played back on a four-track machine. The alternative is that they recorded the same program material twice in the same direction! Either way, it seems odd...

Yes, Cai understands what it is that I'm wondering about. Of course you can get a perfectly good sounding stereo signal by listening to either all four channels on a quad deck, just channels 1 & 3 on a quad deck or just channels 2 & 4 on a quad deck. But.... can you get a good quad decoded signal by running 2 of these channels through an SQ decoder? Or, are you missing some portion of the signal that might contain critical encoded info that you need for the quad playback. I have already done what Malcolm suggests, played the tapes on a half track (I guess that's the professional name for a 2 track) and recorded that to a 4 track stereo reel. Really for the best test someone would need both a half track reel and a Tate decoder. Play the tape on the half track as it was intended to be played and run it through the best SQ decoder ever made. The point I was trying to make in my original message is that I just wonder if everyone who has done dts conversions by playing the original reel back on a four channel deck or cdr's by playing the original reel on a 4 track stereo deck truly captured all the information intended that would enable the best decoding?
These concerts have always had very unimpressive quad effects. Maybe that's partially because they have not been played back correctly?

 

[zabble]

So, my question was, how do you play a two track recording through a SQ decoder and be sure you're getting the full signal needed for quad sound? I don't think it's possible. You're going to be missing something if you're not playing all the info on a 2 track stereo reel. So, a friend of mine who does have a two track reel offered to play back my radio reels, run them into a four channel mixer and mix the resulting signal to a two channel recording (in this case a 4 track stereo reel recording.)

When you play your King Biscuit tape back through your quad deck deck, you now are hearing two sets of identical stereo signals. By playing (or decoding) only one set of those signals, you have lost no information since they are the same. What you lose is a bit of resolution because there is now less tape emulsion dedicated to each track.

I would think you'd be better off playing the first generation tape through your quarter track tape player using only two quarters of the tape rather than re-recording it via the way you suggest. Any sort of added resolution you gain playing the master on a half track deck is diminished when playing back the recorded result on a quarter track tape player. Furthermore, your new recording is now a copy with a full generation loss---and I am sure that can only hurt the recordings "decodability".

 

[QuadBob]

Hey Doctor,

I've got about 5 of those KB Flower Hour shows on CD. While not fantastic SQ quad most likely due to them being live shows and/or using pretty basic quad encoders, some of them do shine! I really love the Argent and Frampton's Camel Flower Hour shows and they actually do decode extremely well for a live show.

Ok, to your problem at hand in dealing with the 2 track reel; Zabble is pretty much correct that playing a 2 track tape on a quad reel will work, but you will lose resolution/dynamic range in doing so. Basically it all has to do with head pickup spacing and design and the signals recorded on the tape.

The only accurate way to play it back is on a true 2-track deck. One thing does concern me about your friends dub to 4 track, you mentioned:

So, a friend of mine who does have a two track reel offered to play back my radio reels, run them into a four channel mixer and mix the resulting signal to a two channel recording (in this case a 4 track stereo reel recording.)

No "mixing" should be required, and in that process you could introduce phase anomolies which could affect the decoding. The output from the 2-track deck IS the correct and complete audio recording. Hopefully, your friend simply recorded the output of the 2-track to a 4-track deck in stereo without any real "mixing" of signals.

The best solution at that point would be to go directly to a PC or CD burner which can handle the full range and quality of the recording. Next step down would be to go to your 4 track (quad) deck and record it as a 2 channel recording. Again, Zabble is correct in that you lose a little resolution going from 1/4" 2-track to 1/4" 4-track but at 7 1/2ips the difference isn't tremendously significant.

So, burn that CDR then spread some copies around!! :sun

 

[dr8track]

Hey Doctor,
The only accurate way to play it back is on a true 2-track deck. One thing does concern me about your friends dub to 4 track, you mentioned:
No "mixing" should be required, and in that process you could introduce phase anomolies which could affect the decoding. The output from the 2-track deck IS the correct and complete audio recording. Hopefully, your friend simply recorded the output of the 2-track to a 4-track deck in stereo without any real "mixing" of signals.

You know Bob, I got to wondering about that exact detail last night when I was thinking about this. I could have sworn he was talking about using a mixer, but you're correct, there is no reason for that if you have a 2 track playback deck. All you'd need is a direct transfer to 4 track stereo.

The best solution at that point would be to go directly to a PC or CD burner which can handle the full range and quality of the recording. Next step down would be to go to your 4 track (quad) deck and record it as a 2 channel recording. Again, Zabble is correct in that you lose a little resolution going from 1/4" 2-track to 1/4" 4-track but at 7 1/2ips the difference isn't tremendously significant.

So, burn that CDR then spread some copies around!! :sun

An excellent suggestion, but as all may have guessed from some of my many inquires on this board, I'm not the most computer savvy guy in the world. I purchased a four channel sound card (The inexpensive Turtle Beach card that Quadmasters describes on www.quadmasters.com) but have just looked at it sitting in the box since it arrived over a year ago. I have no clue how to install it and just haven't gotten the ambition to unhook my computer, take it somewhere and pay someone to do it. So, thus the analog reels.