Need a new amplifier - recommendations?

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neil wilkes

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
4,365
Location
London, England
My trusted old Cambridge Audio Azur 540 is losing it;s marbles - the digital I/O seems almost totally screwed up now especially when dealing with lightpipe input from the Sky Q box there is no analogue out (and no Co-axial digital out either) so I am stuck with lightpipe and it keeps losing the signal. Additionally the display now breaks up & distorts and becomes illegible gibberish after it has been on an hour or so.
So I need a new amp, and it needs to be able to deal with the following:
1 - 6 channel analogue in
2 - A minimum of 2 lightpipe in (one for the Sky Q and one for the PS3)
3 - various analogue stereo in.
I do not give a toss about pseudo surround but suspect they will all do this now, and a quick look shows anything half decent costing over £1,000 and well north of this.
So I would be really grateful if someone could recommend a good amplifier?
 
Do you really need to pass audio via optical cable? Both the PS3 and Sky box will pass 5.1 audio via HDMI so all you need is a receiver with lots of HDMI inputs as well as 5.1 analog in.

I think everyone here has a favourite 'brand' when it comes to receivers, I'm a Denon guy and the last one I had was the Denon AVR-2310. I think I paid about £300 for it used, and it has 5 x HDMI in, 5.1 analog in, 2 coax and two optical ins, as well as a load of different stereo analog ins. I later tricked, er, I mean convinced fellow forum member fredblue to buy it when i left the UK so he could maybe give you a more unbiased opinion of it.

I think what you'll find is that as HDMI has become the defacto standard, 5.1 analog ins have become a 'premium' feature relegated to only the most expensive receivers. I think that 2310 I had was the last year that Denon had the 5.1 analog inputs on their mid-range product, whenever that was. So if you want to get a receiver and don't want to break the bank you might consider one that's 5 (or more) years old.
 
I've been very happy with my Emotiva XMC-1 pre-pro. It is fairly expensive but if you are OK with HDMI 1.4b, it is available at a reduced price:

http://emotiva.com/products/pres-and-pros/xmc-1-special-offer

Of course, you would need to add amplification as it it only a preamp.

As steelydave said, it is getting harder and harder to find receivers that include 5.1 or 7.1 analog inputs. For example, even the latest Anthem receivers (that are quite pricey, and certainly high-end) do not include multi-channel analog inputs.
 
Do you really need to pass audio via optical cable? Both the PS3 and Sky box will pass 5.1 audio via HDMI so all you need is a receiver with lots of HDMI inputs as well as 5.1 analog in.

I think everyone here has a favourite 'brand' when it comes to receivers, I'm a Denon guy and the last one I had was the Denon AVR-2310. I think I paid about £300 for it used, and it has 5 x HDMI in, 5.1 analog in, 2 coax and two optical ins, as well as a load of different stereo analog ins. I later tricked, er, I mean convinced fellow forum member fredblue to buy it when i left the UK so he could maybe give you a more unbiased opinion of it.

I think what you'll find is that as HDMI has become the defacto standard, 5.1 analog ins have become a 'premium' feature relegated to only the most expensive receivers. I think that 2310 I had was the last year that Denon had the 5.1 analog inputs on their mid-range product, whenever that was. So if you want to get a receiver and don't want to break the bank you might consider one that's 5 (or more) years old.

I don't like Sky (several reasons won't go into here) but afaik some Sky boxes have issues passing 5.1 via HDMI and can only do so via Optical.
 
Whoa...that sucks!!!

Maybe Goddess Linda might have a few recommendations...

Linda..you there??

the big problem is that the gear that is available in the US is usually not in Europe..so , an Emotiva is almost twice the price because of Customs, etc...

I know you are looking for a REAL brand, but here are CNET's picks...
 
Whoa...that sucks!!!

Maybe Goddess Linda might have a few recommendations...

Linda..you there??

the big problem is that the gear that is available in the US is usually not in Europe..so , an Emotiva is almost twice the price because of Customs, etc...

I know you are looking for a REAL brand, but here are CNET's picks...

not sure, do any of those Denon's, Yamaha's, Sony's, etc have analogue MultiCh Inputs?
thought only Marantz did any kind of model AVR that isn't £1k ballpark with them from those Japanese manufacturers?

ps. I'm amazed (and happy of course!) Neil's Cambridge Audio has held up as long as it has, my CA AV amp is one of the biggest hardware disappointments I've had in a while.
 
I'd pay a visit to your local Richer sounds and see what they've got. That's where I got my Pioneer SC-LX86 from a few years ago, I like its 'clean' sound, it doesn't hide defects in the source material (close to studio 'purity' but not as loud!), plenty of inputs http://www.pioneer-audiovisual.eu/eu/def/products/SC-LX86 , a few are still available but for more than I paid for it! Now all the latest Pioneers don't have multi-channel analogue inputs. What I did find with my Pioneer is that the Denon BD Universal player's analogue outputs cause the Pioneer's amp clip protect to jump in, so I use HDMI now. Plenty of stereo analogue i/o, and HDMI ports, but I have to use an external switch box to connect up my tape machines.

Onkyo AV amps have a good reputation, but I can't find any that have a multi-channel input.
 
I'd pay a visit to your local Richer sounds and see what they've got. That's where I got my Pioneer SC-LX86 from a few years ago, I like its 'clean' sound, it doesn't hide defects in the source material (close to studio 'purity' but not as loud!), plenty of inputs http://www.pioneer-audiovisual.eu/eu/def/products/SC-LX86 , a few are still available but for more than I paid for it! Now all the latest Pioneers don't have multi-channel analogue inputs. What I did find with my Pioneer is that the Denon BD Universal player's analogue outputs cause the Pioneer's amp clip protect to jump in, so I use HDMI now. Plenty of stereo analogue i/o, and HDMI ports, but I have to use an external switch box to connect up my tape machines.

Onkyo AV amps have a good reputation, but I can't find any that have a multi-channel input.

I was poised to get a Pioneer AVR at one point and then got cold feet when they shut down their facility & changed hands (or was it sold out to some Chinese outfit? i can't remember now).. also, v. interesting you mention Onkyo, I've long avoided their modern day receivers with their reputation for running v.hot (and then invariably failing in some way) but perhaps they've long solved all that (I don't check out AVS/AV Forums anymore for numerous reasons again not right for this thread :) ) has the analogue sunset really.. umm.. set..!? maybe Neil has more options if there are worthwhile Onkyo & Pioneer models out there with MCh analogue inputs..!
 
The Pioneer SC-LX86 and the range use Class-D power amps so don't get hot, complex though. I'm not sure whether the newer Pioneers, are ok, this current generation probably are, but as you rightly point out now owned by some other shell company, so its more likely they'll be designed to a price more than a sound/reliability. The Onkyo have a lot of features and have gained in reputation, but I've never had one so can't really comment. My first AV amp was a Yamaha, which was great but had no HDMI. I have a feeling the real analogue world will still be around but the cost of getting it will be prohibitive. What people forget is that digital signals are actually very very fast analogue, and so has its own issues akin to working with RF - I know, designing with the fast DDR3 DRAM memory can be a right pain!

I was poised to get a Pioneer AVR at one point and then got cold feet when they shut down their facility & changed hands (or was it sold out to some Chinese outfit? i can't remember now).. also, v. interesting you mention Onkyo, I've long avoided their modern day receivers with their reputation for running v.hot (and then invariably failing in some way) but perhaps they've long solved all that (I don't check out AVS/AV Forums anymore for numerous reasons again not right for this thread :) ) has the analogue sunset really.. umm.. set..!? maybe Neil has more options if there are worthwhile Onkyo & Pioneer models out there with MCh analogue inputs..!
 
Don't rule out getting 3 identical stereo amps. I'm not recommending anything specific but it may be another way of achieving what you are trying to do.

funny you should say, been thinking about doing just this as I imagine even a budget hi fi amp would trounce majority of budget AVRs in the sound quality stakes (though I guess it might be a bit tricky balancing various channel levels of 3 integrated amps with their own volume controls, may be more practical to use power amps? unless I misunderstood and that's what you're proposing).
if going that route, what would you recommend to use for things like video source routing/switching, etc.?
 
The Pioneer SC-LX86 and the range use Class-D power amps so don't get hot, complex though. I'm not sure whether the newer Pioneers, are ok, this current generation probably are, but as you rightly point out now owned by some other shell company, so its more likely they'll be designed to a price more than a sound/reliability. The Onkyo have a lot of features and have gained in reputation, but I've never had one so can't really comment. My first AV amp was a Yamaha, which was great but had no HDMI. I have a feeling the real analogue world will still be around but the cost of getting it will be prohibitive. What people forget is that digital signals are actually very very fast analogue, and so has its own issues akin to working with RF - I know, designing with the fast DDR3 DRAM memory can be a right pain!

interesting you're running Monitor Audio's with Class D amplification and getting nice results, some mags used to suggest Class A or the more usual A-B for MA's (I think it was something to do with the construction/material used in their spkr cones?) and there was for a time some bias against Class D amps saying they could be harsh/clinical with the "wrong" speaker.. I dunno.. once I've had a few lemonades of an evening I usually stop worrying about all that bollocks and just enjoy the music :eek: (and I stopped buying Hi Fi mags years ago, they started becoming too full of glorified advertorials rather than serious reviews.. and they used to make incongruous choices in the discs they used to demo/test equipment sometimes with masterings on CD I knew were compressed to buggery)
 
funny you should say, been thinking about doing just this as I imagine even a budget hi fi amp would trounce majority of budget AVRs in the sound quality stakes (though I guess it might be a bit tricky balancing various channel levels of 3 integrated amps with their own volume controls, may be more practical to use power amps? unless I misunderstood and that's what you're proposing).
if going that route, what would you recommend to use for things like video source routing/switching, etc.?

Balancing the levels of 3 integrated amps is easy if you are using an Oppo 105 - just put them all at the same level an use the 105's volume control. In fact having separate volume controls for the rears is a major plus in my mind because of the often differences in rear channel levels from disc to disc.

I'm not very demanding with my needs for video; I feed the Oppo video directly to my TV via hdmi.
 
I know Yamaha stopped including 5.1 analog in by 2015. So the 2014 Advantage models: RX-A1040, RX-A2040 and RX-3040 will have this - and earlier top 3 models. If used are an option.

I own the RX-A1030 (2013 model) avr myself and are very happy with it.

The best thing about the Yamaha's are (quality of course) the option to go in and manually adjust the sound with the multiband parametric equlizer (individually for each speaker) after the automatic room-correction have done it's magic. It's a great feature.
 
Balancing the levels of 3 integrated amps is easy if you are using an Oppo 105 - just put them all at the same level an use the 105's volume control. In fact having separate volume controls for the rears is a major plus in my mind because of the often differences in rear channel levels from disc to disc.

I'm not very demanding with my needs for video; I feed the Oppo video directly to my TV via hdmi.

pedantic moi worries how to get all 3 amps at the exact same level with the potential inaccuracy of some integrated amps' rotary volume controls, maybe?

..and then I'd only be using one channel of one of the amps as the sub's active and maybe the amp would eventually get out of balance or something if its only powering one channel.. (I know its probably totally ridiculous.. I'm mad..)

..but then what do you do for EQ and room setup etc., are the Oppo's more sophisticated than the CA BDP's which only have rudimentary distance and volume level parameters for the various speaker channels when using the MultiCh analogue out's?

good point.. i'm not mega demanding in the video input regard anymore (at one stage I was using all 8 HDMI inputs on my defunct Yammy) but ideally 5 or 6 HDMI's would be nice these days even though I don't use a couple of the devices much now I'm lazy and its handy to have it all hooked up permanently just in case I fancy using one of the consoles or something.

anyway, I hope when Neil comes back to this thread some or all of our ramblings might have proved interesting/useful :eek:
 
I know Yamaha stopped including 5.1 analog in by 2015. So the 2014 Advantage models: RX-A1040, RX-A2040 and RX-3040 will have this - and earlier top 3 models. If used are an option.

I own the RX-A1030 (2013 model) avr myself and are very happy with it.

The best thing about the Yamaha's are (quality of course) the option to go in and manually adjust the sound with the multiband parametric equlizer (individually for each speaker) after the automatic room-correction have done it's magic. It's a great feature.

I loved my RXV 2067 (think it was roughly equiv to an RXA 2010 or something?) was my favourite AVR yet, easy to use, lovely sound, useful functions and as you say scope for tinkering post-YPAO :eek: .. was heartbroken when it went bye bye's.. might still look into getting it repaired.
 
pedantic moi worries how to get all 3 amps at the exact same level with the potential inaccuracy of some integrated amps' rotary volume controls, maybe?

All my experience is with the Oppo 105 which generates a test tone for each channel. Use a sound meter to measure the volume of each channel and adjust levels accordingly.
 
I loved my RXV 2067 (think it was roughly equiv to an RXA 2010 or something?) was my favourite AVR yet, easy to use, lovely sound, useful functions and as you say scope for tinkering post-YPAO :eek: .. was heartbroken when it went bye bye's.. might still look into getting it repaired.

Sorry to read about your bad luck with your avr's. Hope you have better luck in the future :)
 
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