Receivers that decode 4.0 PCM/MLP recordings over HDMI

Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:

Mark Anderson

Moderator
Joined
Mar 16, 2004
Messages
889
Location
aRMANIA
Brand: Denon
Model No. AVR-3312CI
Year: 2011
{tested with Oppo BDP93 }

Brand: Emotiva
Model No. UMC-200
Year: 2012

Brand: Marantz
Model No. SR6012
Year: 2016 / 2017
{tested with Oppo-103 connected to HDMI-2 and Oppo-205}

Brand: Onkyo
Model No. TX-NR609
Year:
{tested with Oppo 970HD, Oppo BDP-80 & Oppo BDP-103}

Brand: Onkyo
Model No. TX-NR656
Year:
{only from my Oppo BDP-103}

Brand: Onkyo
Model No. Integra DRX-5
Year: 2016
{tested with Oppo 203}

Brand: Pioneer
Model No. SC-LX86
Year: 2013
{tested with Oppo 203 }

Brand: Yamaha
Model No. RX-A2050
Year: 2016
{tested with Oppo 103 }

Brand: Yamaha
Model No. RX-V1073
Year: 2012

Brand: Yamaha
Model No. RX-V1900
Year: 2008
{tested with Oppo BDP-93 & UDP-203}

Brand: Yamaha
Model No. RX-V3081
Year: 2016 / 2017
{tested with Oppo BDP93 }

Please help build a list of receivers that will decode a 4.0 PCM / MLP file over a HDMI Connection. Provide the info and I will update the list.
 
Last edited:

Mark Anderson

Moderator
Joined
Mar 16, 2004
Messages
889
Location
aRMANIA
Last night while the family was gone I had a chance to listen to music. After going thru some new 5.0 & 5.1 SACD's and DTS DVD's I pulled out a 4.0 recording and then remembered that my Marantz SR-7010 will only play the front 2 channels. OK so I just need to switch to the multichannel input on the receiver as I have the Oppo connected both thru HDMI and to the Multichannel Analogue input. Then I needed to switch my component video matrix switcher to the right input. I forgot how loud I was listening on the last recording and the switcher will make a thump noise on some channels. When I switched channels I jumped out of my chair from fright of the noise, herd the receiver click and go into protection mode. Bummer....
Now when it turns on it runs for a couple seconds and then goes back to protection mode.
I can get it fixed but it always bothered me that Denon / Marantz would not write code to allow the decoder to play a 4.0 recording so I thought I would use this opportunity to just get a new receiver. Not having the ability to play 4.0 recordings in the digital domain eliminates any digital up-mixing like using Auro 3D or bass management and room correction (not that I like that for music).
I spent the morning looking at the name brands as I recall Larry Geller mentioning that Onkyo pushed an update that corrected the 4.0 playback problem and I loved my Onkyo SV-909 from the early 90's so why not have a look.
To much horror I discovered that every new model that I looked at did not have multichannel analogue inputs, Auro 3D and most only had 2 Channel Atmos overhead speaker feeds. My search was for the top of the line all in one receivers from Onkyo, Sony, Yamaha. Not having multichannel inputs would not allow hooking up the Q8 deck, Reel, Tate II, Surround Master, Ambisonic decoder or multichannel channel feed from my computer mixing desk through the Delta 1010 audio card.

What I consider critical for an all in one Swiss army knife receiver is
1. Multichannel Inputs
2. 2 HDMI outputs for zone 1 & 2
3. A zone three analouge output for feeding the surround decoders (Tate, Surround master, Onkyo Ambisonic)
4. At least 7 HDMI inputs
5. Component video input (gives me a separate video feed to the Multichannel input out of an Oppo 83 for instance)
6. 4 Atmos overhead speaker feeds
7. Auro 3D

I have not checked out esoteric brands as of yet but have decided I can't have it all so I will get the Marantz repaired. I also just ordered a Atlona AT-COMP-44M Component Matrix switch to replace the switch that caused the problem.

As analogue multichannel inputs are becoming rare I thought it a good idea to identify receivers for "Quadies" to play 4.0 recordings.
 
Last edited:

Sonik Wiz

1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
QQ Supporter
Joined
May 30, 2005
Messages
1,342
Location
Kansas City
Last night while the family was gone I had a chance to listen to music. After going thru some new 5.0 & 5.1 SACD's and DTS DVD's I pulled out a 4.0 recording and then remembered that my Marantz SR-7010 will only play the front 2 channels. OK so I just need to switch to the multichannel input on the receiver as I have the Oppo connected both thru HDMI and to the Multichannel Analogue input. Then I needed to switch my component video matrix switcher to the right input. I forgot how loud I was listening on the last recording and the switcher will make a thump noise on some channels. When I switched channels I jumped out of my chair from freight of the noise, herd the receiver click and go into protection mode. Bummer....
Now when it turns on it runs for a couple seconds and then goes back to protection mode.
I can get it fixed but it always bothered me that Denon / Marantz would not write code to allow the decoder to play a 4.0 recording so I thought I would use this opportunity to just get a new receiver. Not having the ability to play 4.0 recordings in the digital domain eliminates any digital up-mixing like using Auro 3D or bass management and room correction (not that I like that for music).
I spent the morning looking at the name brands as I recall Larry Geller mentioning that Onkyo pushed an update that corrected the 4.0 playback problem and I loved my Onkyo SV-909 from the early 90's so why not have a look.
To much horror I discovered that every new model that I looked at did not have multichannel analogue inputs, Auro 3D and most only had 2 Channel Atmos overhead speaker feeds. My search was for the top of the line all in one receivers from Onkyo, Sony, Yamaha. Not having multichannel inputs would not allow hooking up the Q8 deck, Reel, Tate II, Surround Master, Ambisonic decoder or multichannel channel feed from my computer mixing desk through the Delta 1010 audio card.

What I consider critical for an all in one Swiss army knife receiver is
1. Multichannel Inputs
2. 2 HDMI outputs for zone 1 & 2
3. A zone three analouge output for feeding the surround decoders (Tate, Surround master, Onkyo Ambisonic)
4. At least 7 HDMI inputs
5. Component video input (gives me a separate video feed to the Multichannel input out of an Oppo 83 for instance)
6. 4 Atmos overhear speaker feeds
7. Auro 3D

I have not checked out esoteric brands as of yet but have decided I can't have it all so I will get the Marantz repaired. I also just ordered a Atlona AT-COMP-44M Component Matrix switch to replace the switch that caused the problem.

As analogue multichannel inputs are becoming rare I thought it a good idea to identify receivers for "Quadies" to play 4.0 recordings.
What a bummer sorry to hear about the problems. Marantz (or is it just most new receivers?) seem to be delicate. My #1 son in law had a late model Marantz and I did some "fixing" on a speaker connection while the unit was on, not playing. One individual wire from a 16 gauge strand shorted out. It went in protection mode but also smelled burned. Would not operate again. He bought Anthem & things have been good.

I won't did deep on research but I'd suggest looking at Anthem for receivers or Emotiva if you go pre-pro with separate power amps. I wouldn't consider these esoteric rather high end mainstream. If you are looking foranalog in then used equipment a couple of gen's back might be a (cheaper) possibility.

Good luck!
 

Mark Anderson

Moderator
Joined
Mar 16, 2004
Messages
889
Location
aRMANIA
I won't did deep on research but I'd suggest looking at Anthem for receivers or Emotiva if you go pre-pro with separate power amps. I wouldn't consider these esoteric rather high end mainstream.
I plan on looking at both but as I recall from previous looks they lacked some software like Auro 3D that to me is now a must
 

sbrom

500 Club - QQ All-Star
QQ Supporter
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Messages
554
Location
US
I had this problem (4 channel PCM source via HDMI, AVR only playing front two channels) with my Yamaha RX-2050 in combination with the Oppo 103 player's HDMI-2 output. Once I switched to the Oppo's HDMI-1 output, it worked fine. I can't explain why, but it may related (according to Oppo) to the two Oppo ports using different control devices. In other words, it may not be just your AVR, but a combination of the AVR and the attached HDMI device.
 

boxhead

Senior Member
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
225
Location
Sydney, Australia
Just tested my receiver going from Oppo BDP93 to the receiver via HDMI. I used my home made Zaireka DVD-A which is definitely 4.0.

Brand - Yamaha
Model No. - RX-V3081
Year - 2016 (I think), maybe early 2017.

Played in 4.0 as expected.

Sent from my K5000 using Tapatalk
 

Mark Anderson

Moderator
Joined
Mar 16, 2004
Messages
889
Location
aRMANIA
I had this problem (4 channel PCM source via HDMI, AVR only playing front two channels) with my Yamaha RX-2050 in combination with the Oppo 103 player's HDMI-2 output. Once I switched to the Oppo's HDMI-1 output, it worked fine. I can't explain why, but it may related (according to Oppo) to the two Oppo ports using different control devices. In other words, it may not be just your AVR, but a combination of the AVR and the attached HDMI device.
Thanks, good tip for those that have this issue.
As a clarification, I only have this issue when playing 4.0 DVD-Audios of quad transfers and the Pink Floyd Immersion sets of Dark Side of the Moon and Wish you were here. I have an Oppo 83 and 203.
 

J. PUPSTER

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
May 30, 2017
Messages
5,097
Location
CALIFORNIA (CENTRAL)
I had this problem (4 channel PCM source via HDMI, AVR only playing front two channels) with my Yamaha RX-2050 in combination with the Oppo 103 player's HDMI-2 output. Once I switched to the Oppo's HDMI-1 output, it worked fine. I can't explain why, but it may related (according to Oppo) to the two Oppo ports using different control devices. In other words, it may not be just your AVR, but a combination of the AVR and the attached HDMI device.
The way I understand it, one port is for audio/video and the other is audio only. Since my Marantz AVR 8500 has no HDMI, I only use the analog connections from my Oppo (but use the HDMI-video port direct to my TV.)
 

Kal Rubinson

1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Messages
1,883
Location
NYC/CT
Last night while the family was gone I had a chance to listen to music. After going thru some new 5.0 & 5.1 SACD's and DTS DVD's I pulled out a 4.0 recording and then remembered that my Marantz SR-7010 will only play the front 2 channels.
My Marantz experience is limited to the 8801-8805 family but they play 4.0 via HDMI from any of the Oppos.
 

surroundophile

400 Club - QQ All-Star
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Aug 15, 2003
Messages
424
Location
Chicago
I have kind of been watching out for pre-pros and receivers that still have 7.1 multichannel analog inputs on them. The only ones that I've seen have been Marantz and one other brand, which I THINK was Emotiva (but not sure about that; it wasn't one of the big-name companys).
 

J. PUPSTER

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
May 30, 2017
Messages
5,097
Location
CALIFORNIA (CENTRAL)
I have kind of been watching out for pre-pros and receivers that still have 7.1 multichannel analog inputs on them. The only ones that I've seen have been Marantz and one other brand, which I THINK was Emotiva (but not sure about that; it wasn't one of the big-name companys).
Please report back if you get anymore info, I'm an analog man, always looking for knowledge here. Someday though I'll need to go digital with HDMI, but not too concerned yet šŸ§
 

Mark Anderson

Moderator
Joined
Mar 16, 2004
Messages
889
Location
aRMANIA
My Marantz experience is limited to the 8801-8805 family but they play 4.0 via HDMI from any of the Oppos.
Thanks for the info Kal. I have to say that this leaves me a little perplexed after contacting Marantz about my issue and they told me that "4.0 PCM/LPCM is not something we've ever decoded in our receivers or pre-amps, so I would think it's a hardware limitation and not just software."
I guess they must using a different decoding chip in the pre-amp models vs. the all in ones.
I will update the list.
 

DuncanS

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
4,952
Location
UK
I suspect the issue is the 'sloppy/bad' original HDMI specification which should have defined the audio formats more thoroughly.

From Wikipedia "For digital audio, if an HDMI device has audio, it is required to implement the baseline format: stereo (uncompressed) PCM. Other formats are optional, with HDMI allowing up to 8 channels of uncompressed audio at sample sizes of 16-bit, 20-bit and 24-bit, with sample rates of 32 kHz, 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, 88.2 kHz, 96 kHz, 176.4 kHz and 192 kHz"

So I suspect your receiver doesn't recognise the audio format, and so just extracts the front channels from the HDMI audio time slots. Most of these chips are programmable, but its too much effort for manufacturers to do updates - R.I.P Oppo and their great customer service/support.

My 2013 Pioneer SC-LX86 will handle the 4.0 PCM (from the Oppo 203) off the DVD-As I generated.

Curiously, if the Pioneer detects a 'hot' level DSD signal it mutes the output, so I have the Oppo set to output PCM from DSD - so the Pioneer has a different interpretation/implementation of the DSD spec from the Oppo.
 

Kal Rubinson

1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Messages
1,883
Location
NYC/CT
Thanks for the info Kal. I have to say that this leaves me a little perplexed after contacting Marantz about my issue and they told me that "4.0 PCM/LPCM is not something we've ever decoded in our receivers or pre-amps, so I would think it's a hardware limitation and not just software."
I will check it again this weekend to insure that my memory is accurate. I found 4 4.0 DVD-As for this. I have not played any discs (except BDs) in years because all my music is in the form of files on a NAS. I play them through JRiver which neatly repackages all channel formats into a 5.1 package.
 
Last edited:

Mark Anderson

Moderator
Joined
Mar 16, 2004
Messages
889
Location
aRMANIA
I will check it again this weekend to insure that my memory is accurate. I found 4 4.0 DVD-As for this. I have not played any discs (except BDs) in years because all my music is in the form of files on a NAS. I play them through JRiver which neatly repackages all channel formats into a 5.1 package.
Thanks for taking the extra time to verify this. My problem discs have been 4.0 DVD-Audios of quad transfers and the Pink Floyd Immersion sets of Dark Side of the Moon and Wish you were here. The Marantz displays 4 channel quad coming in but only plays the two front channels.
Nice to hear that J-River will send a 4.0 recording as a 5.1, that is a big bonus for not having to add silent center and sub channels to any 4.0 recordings I plan to rip in the future.
 

Mark Anderson

Moderator
Joined
Mar 16, 2004
Messages
889
Location
aRMANIA
I have kind of been watching out for pre-pros and receivers that still have 7.1 multichannel analog inputs on them.
I think a separate thread would be great for receivers with multichannel inputs as there were some folks who wanted the new surround master V2 only to find out there new receiver could not accomodate it due to not having multichannel inputs
 
Top