The quandary: do I move on from my superb sounding 5.1 setup to be able to enjoy the latest surround technology? Thoughts/experiences welcome.

[LuvMyQuad]

If you have a modern AVP that has HDMI, I wouldn't suggest continuing to use the analog outputs on the Oppo. I know the converters in the Oppo are very good, but I doubt they'd be any better than what the AVP has. Worse a lot of AVPs do everything (a lot of the time even volume control) in the digital domain, so it's very likely you're just doing an extra unnecessary conversion by taking the analog input, converting it to digital for manipulation and then back to analog. Much better to feed the AVP any digital signal and let it handle it.

Agree. The OPs first move here should be to get a processor with digital inputs. I know the ARC preamp is a well built piece and all, but there is nothing magical about it. And it does nothing that a good modern AVP can't do as well or better. Time to move on.

Use the Oppo to play discs, not as the sole DAC for your system.

Don't use DSOTM to judge how Atmos played as 5.1 sounds on your system. There is something very wrong with the DSOTM disc encoding, as discussed elsewhere on QQ. I have a 5.0 system with an Atmos capable AVR. If I play either the Atmos test tones or the album in straight 5.0 it is as you describe, very "floaty" and no real localisation of anything. The test tones each play in 4 out of my 5 speakers. But if I engage Atmos in my Arcam AVR31 and have it render that to 5.0 (an entirely valid option) then it all sounds much better, the test tones appear where they should and the localisation in the album comes back.

So while this is a valid exercise for you, DSOTM is the wrong disc to use for testing. One solution you could consider is leave your speaker setup alone and get an Atmos capable decoder or AVR and then like me you can have an Atmos render down to your speaker layout.

Agree. The DSOTM Atmos disc is wonky. Pick another Atmos reference disc. And until the 5.1 Animals mix, James Guthrie's mixes were very meh.

 

[bamamusicfan]

My two sense. Dolby Atmos is very new for music. Most of the 12 or so Atmos music releases I own produce very little ambient material to the 4 ceiling mounted speakers in my 5.2.4 setup. There are exceptions, but generally the heights are used much more frequently if you are into movies. If you enjoy those, I think making the change is certainly worthwhile.

 

[scottm18]

So if I was to get a "poor man's Lyngdorf" which even used is major bucks as is everything quality from Scandinavia...such as this similar piece:


https://emotiva.com/products/basx-mc1-13-2-channel-dolby-atmos-dts-x-cinema-processor

So using something like this, would I remove the ARC preamp from the equation and instead use this (would this function is both the preamp and a processor)? Then run HDMI digital from my Oppo 205 into one of the inputs on the Emotiva. I invoke both my HQ five channel amplifiers (CJ & Cary), sending the typical (L C R SL SR) to one (the CJ I'm used to) and "extra" newly purchased side and/or height speaker channels to the Cary? It even has a menu option for true ceiling speakers or bounce ceiling speakers. Then there's probably a switch on the Emotiva to only use 5.1 which would still go through just my CJ amp and sound very similar to what I'm used to... while another option would blend the two together adding height & side and keep the synch because it runs through a central component. This is a complete guess as late as digital componentry is very new to me...does anyone know if I'm on the right track?

This would also allow me to remove the Oppo if it fails or I go another path...because I would now have another option for HDMI input.

 

[scottm18]

So if I was to get a "poor man's Lyngdorf" which even used is major bucks as is everything quality from Scandinavia...such as this similar piece:



https://emotiva.com/products/basx-mc1-13-2-channel-dolby-atmos-dts-x-cinema-processor

So using something like this, would I take out the preamp from the equation and instead use this (would this function is both the preamp and a processor)? Then run HDMI digital from my Oppo 205 into one of the inputs on the Emotiva. I invoke both my five channel amplifiers (CJ & Cary), sending the typical (L C R SL SR) to one (the CJ I'm used to) and "extra" newly purchased side and/or height speaker channels to the Cary? It even has a menu option for true ceiling speakers or bounce ceiling speakers. Then there's probably a switch on the Emotiva to only use 5.1 which would still go through just my CJ amp and sound very similar to what I'm used to... while another option would blend the two together adding height & side and keep the synch because it runs through a central component. This is a complete guess as late as digital componentry is very new to me...does anyone know if I'm on the right track?

This would also allow me to remove the Oppo if it fails or I go another path...because I would now have another option for HDMI input.

 

[DrKlahn]

So if I was to get a "poor man's Lyngdorf" which even used is major bucks as is everything quality from Scandinavia...such as this similar piece:
View attachment 105616
View attachment 105617
https://emotiva.com/products/factory-renewed-basx-mc1-13-2-channel-dolby-atmos®-dts-x™-cinema-processor

So using something like this, would I take out the preamp from the equation and instead use this (would this function is both the preamp and a processor)? Then run HDMI digital from my Oppo 205 into one of the inputs on the Emotiva. I invoke both my HQ five channel amplifiers (CJ & Cary), sending the typical (L C R SL SR) to one (the CJ I'm used to) and "extra" newly purchased side and/or height speaker channels to the Cary? It even has a menu option for true ceiling speakers or bounce ceiling speakers. Then there's probably a switch on the Emotiva to only use 5.1 which would still go through just my CJ amp and sound very similar to what I'm used to... while another option would blend the two together adding height & side and keep the synch because it runs through a central component. This is a complete guess as late as digital componentry is very new to me...does anyone know if I'm on the right track?

This would also allow me to remove the Oppo if it fails or I go another path...because I would now have another option for HDMI input.

It pains me to say it since I like some of their other products, but I would stay away from Emotiva when shopping for a preamp. Too many horror stories with the software side of things.

What budget are you working with? A used Anthem AVM70 can be had for under $3000. That would be a good choice. Otherwise the older AVM60 is still decent. Denon/Marantz is an option too, but I've found the room correction hit or miss and they tend to force upmixing which isn't ideal for music IMO.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

So if I was to get a "poor man's Lyngdorf" which even used is major bucks as is everything quality from Scandinavia...such as this similar piece:
View attachment 105623
View attachment 105624

https://emotiva.com/products/basx-mc1-13-2-channel-dolby-atmos-dts-x-cinema-processor

So using something like this, would I take out the preamp from the equation and instead use this (would this function is both the preamp and a processor)? Then run HDMI digital from my Oppo 205 into one of the inputs on the Emotiva. I invoke both my five channel amplifiers (CJ & Cary), sending the typical (L C R SL SR) to one (the CJ I'm used to) and "extra" newly purchased side and/or height speaker channels to the Cary? It even has a menu option for true ceiling speakers or bounce ceiling speakers. Then there's probably a switch on the Emotiva to only use 5.1 which would still go through just my CJ amp and sound very similar to what I'm used to... while another option would blend the two together adding height & side and keep the synch because it runs through a central component. This is a complete guess as late as digital componentry is very new to me...does anyone know if I'm on the right track?

This would also allow me to remove the Oppo if it fails or I go another path...because I would now have another option for HDMI input.

I have one of these.
Your hookup ideas seem correct.
It is a preamp and a processor.
There is no switch. The unit just detects what it's being fed. There is no way to playback Atmos as standard 5.1. the processor determines the proper output.
All that said, I wouldn't recommend it to you.

I use mine only for Atmos playback. I use a separate 7.1 non Atmos AVP for everything else. I connect the outputs of both to a manual switch that connects to the power amp inputs. That way I can switch between processors.

That MC-1 has a few down sides that may not be apparent.

No multichannel analog input. No way to play multichannel SACD or DVDA discs natively.
No true analog bypass mode. Any stereo analog signal you feed it gets digitized.
The room correction routine sucks.
Internal processing is limited to 24/48. So anything with higher resolution gets downsampled. 24/48 is fine for Atmos, but things like DTS MA, Quadio and DVDA generally have higher sample rates. The Quadio stuff goes to 24/132

As an Atmos processor it's fine. I have zero issues with Atmos tracks. I think it sounds fine.

I don't have any problems with the firmware, but as @DrKlahn says, others have had issues.

The build quality is nowhere close to the preamp you have.

Emotiva markets this as a Cinema processor. And that truly is what it is. Fine for movies. Not so much for critical music playback. I kind of view it as something to play Atmos with until something better comes along. I wouldn't replace my UMC-200 with it.

There is a similar model by Tonewinner which takes care of some of these shortfalls, not not all of them. Tonewinner makes the MC-1 for Emotiva. All of it is Chinese.

https://summithifiusa.com/products/at-300-16-channel-pre-pro-releasing-soon

I've heard good things about the Anthem stuff @DrKlahn mentioned. I've also heard good things about this,

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=37887

 

[LuvMyQuad]

It pains me to say it since I like some of their other products, but I would stay away from Emotiva when shopping for a preamp. Too many horror stories with the software side of things.

I like the power amps quite a bit.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

My final advise to the OP is this.

Going Atmos is not going to solve what I think is the primary issue you have, which is a lack of side surrounds.

Going with speaker top bounce units is not going to make you happy. I have yet to hear from anyone on here that they provide a satisfying experience. Where would you put the rear ones anyway?

Get a front end that gets 5.1 and/or 7.1 right, first and foremost.

Don't relax your fidelity standards just to get into Atmos. It's just not worth it. Done right, most Atmos mixes sound quite good when reproduced as 5.1. don't be afraid to go in that direction.

 

[DrKlahn]

I have one of these.
Your hookup ideas seem correct.
It is a preamp and a processor.
There is no switch. The unit just detects what it's being fed. There is no way to playback Atmos as standard 5.1. the processor determines the proper output.
All that said, I wouldn't recommend it to you.

I use mine only for Atmos playback. I use a separate 7.1 non Atmos AVP for everything else. I connect the outputs of both to a manual switch that connects to the power amp inputs. That way I can switch between processors.

That MC-1 has a few down sides that may not be apparent.

No multichannel analog input. No way to play multichannel SACD or DVDA discs natively.
No true analog bypass mode. Any stereo analog signal you feed it gets digitized.
The room correction routine sucks.
Internal processing is limited to 24/48. So anything with higher resolution gets downsampled. 24/48 is fine for Atmos, but things like DTS MA, Quadio and DVDA generally have higher sample rates. The Quadio stuff goes to 24/132

As an Atmos processor it's fine. I have zero issues with Atmos tracks. I think it sounds fine.

I don't have any problems with the firmware, but as @DrKlahn says, others have had issues.

The build quality is nowhere close to the preamp you have.

Emotiva markets this as a Cinema processor. And that truly is what it is. Fine for movies. Not so much for critical music playback. I kind of view it as something to play Atmos with until something better comes along. I wouldn't replace my UMC-200 with it.

There is a similar model by Tonewinner which takes care of some of these shortfalls, not not all of them. Tonewinner makes the MC-1 for Emotiva. All of it is Chinese.

https://summithifiusa.com/products/at-300-16-channel-pre-pro-releasing-soon

I've heard good things about the Anthem stuff @DrKlahn mentioned. I've also heard good things about this,

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=37887

The Monolith is a very good piece of gear and I have heard one locally, but that owner uses it mostly for movies. So I don't have any experience on whether it does any odd upmixing of sources. I've heard the Anthem AVM60/70/90 (as well as a couple receivers) and their speaker profiles work very well to ensure you get the intended channels and also let you tweak each profile.

You don't need analog inputs for SACD or DVDA and in most cases using them just forces an unnecessary AD-DA conversion. Just make sure the player can bitstream the data and the processor will take care of it. For SACD you may need to do a PCM conversion in the player if the processor doesn't natively decode DSD. But that will still end up a better sounding option than an unnecessary conversion.

 

[scottm18]

Just as I thought...it gets complicated quickly. Another consideration is the Oppo 205 DAC is no slouch at an 8ch ESS 9038Pro, while some of these processors are of lesser ilk there. If I'm going to do something like this I'd love to get the AKM 4499EX DAC in the system, but all the mfgs are so coy about what specific DAC is used "Audiiohile DAC" doesn't cut it. That could mean an ancient Wolfson 8740 that Cambridge Audio used literally til just last year because apparently their Brit countrymates dumped a billion of them at CA's door a dozen years ago...

Anyway...I digress. Even the AVM90 I've seen both the that new AKM and the same 9038Pro that's in my Oppo listed is being used in it. Which is it? Does anyone know for sure what DAC is used in the Anthem AVM 70 / AVM 90... and even that Monolith unit as well?

But I believe my thinking is correctly that whatever I use for the front end, I would utilize both my high quality multi-channel amplifiers for the extra channels. Rather than going a "receiver" route with a completely different sonic character, that would keep the sound as I know it for 20 years now pretty consistent...

 

[Guy Robinson]

If you are happy stick with what you have. I have 7.1 and will be leaving it as it is even though my AVR does ATMOS.

 

[Owen Smith]

Just as I thought...it gets complicated quickly. Another consideration is the Oppo 205 DAC is no slouch at an 8ch ESS 9038Pro, while some of these processors are of lesser ilk there. If I'm going to do something like this I'd love to get the AKM 4499EX DAC in the system, but all the mfgs are so coy about what specific DAC is used "Audiiohile DAC" doesn't cut it. That could mean an ancient Wolfson 8740 that Cambridge Audio used literally til just last year because apparently their Brit countrymates dumped a billion of them at CA's door a dozen years ago...

Arcam and the matching rebadged JBL Synthesis receivers and processors tell you exactly what DACs they use, which is various ESS models with the JBLs using higher spec. I agree however that some manufacturers seem unduly coy about it.

 

[MidiMagic]

This sounds so complicated that I don't know if I want it.

I am thinking of using mike stands to hold up small height speakers.

My system will be more complicated because I want to play all the matrix recordings I have and listen to the matrix TV and FM I get. I also have many new CDs and DVDs that seem to have matrixed output. I am listening to the NBC Preakness broadcast in Dolby Pro Logic as I write this.

 

[Sal1950]

It pains me to say it since I like some of their other products, but I would stay away from Emotiva when shopping for a preamp. Too many horror stories with the software side of things.

I have to agree with the Dr. here. I've nothing against Emo and have been running one of their DC-1 DAC's here for close to 7 years now. BUT the Emo AV products have the worst reputation on the net for buggy software, firmware updates, and such, I'd avoid them!
The Denon X3600 - 6600H and 3700 etc are excellent measureing AVR's that offer pre-out connections for amp upgrades, etc. The Monoprice HT-1 is a first class Pre/Pro if you can afford it.
More?

 

[Owen Smith]

BUT the Emo AV products have the worst reputation on the net for buggy software, firmware updates, and such, I'd avoid them!

Worse than Arcam/JBL? Wow! Don't buy Arcam AV gear within the first 2 years of release, it takes them that long to get most of the bugs fixed.

 

[Sal1950]

Worse than Arcam/JBL?

Yes, but JMHO from reading owner reviews over the last decade.

 

[scottm18]

Arcam is now owned by the Samsung/Harman conglomerate so going to give them a hard pass these days. I still have a product when they were actually good.. That 970HD DVD player I think it was that's still probably plays DVD-audio and SACD the best of anything out there. Anyway, while I investigate further, I just kicked up the center channel volume a little bit to make the vocals a little less floaty.

To add "insult to injury", not only do I have one of the better listening rooms because it's fully symmetrical and lively but I have a perfect ceiling to add Atmos to if I wanted... 8 to 9 ft in perfectly flat & no thatching here.

Thanks again for everyone's suggestions

 

[Owen Smith]

Arcam is now owned by the Samsung/Harman conglomerate

Is any AV manufacturer not part of some conglomerate these days?

 

[ar surround]

Late to the game, but my two cents:

Atmos music can sound anywhere from "totally blown away" to "why bother...what we had before is better." And these opinions can be about the exact same Atmos album (or track) from multiple users.

So as others have said, try to find some way to keep your core 5.1 system and add-on Atmos.

 

[scottm18]

Is any AV manufacturer not part of some conglomerate these days?

Give me D&M holdings / Sound United (Denon, Marantz, Macintosh, Polk, Definitive) any day over anything related to Samsung. Not really the place for this but I'll say my (somewhat) short piece: Not only they have unethical & shady past business practices like illegal labor among other things including jail time for some of their leadership...but they really pissed me off personally in the phone segment specifically. First of all they're hypocritical lemmings...bashing Apple for the removal of some items (like the headphone jack) & then doing the exact same thing in the next generation. Further, thanks to zero competition in the US they have zero innovation whatsoever--a perfect example being the crease in their folding phones has been a ridiculous eyesore for four generations now and they do nothing about it because. Why should the lazy company actually choose to innovate when there's no other choice? Asian companies that we don't get solved this in about the second generation of their models.

Oh...and I partially (mostly?) blame them for LG leaving the phone business completely...IE the only great Android manufacturer for phone audio. Even the microphones were good as I just found out when I took concert footage yesterday on my LG V50 I keep around strictly for media...and it came out fantastic.

And yes I realize they now own Roon which is a really sad fact. For my use they were overpriced anyway...but this is just another reason to avoid that now.