Using Sound Forge 9.0 is very nice

[JonUrban]

I have to admit that I've been using Sound Forge since version 4.5 (many years ago), but the latest version is so freaking great for working with surround sound files, I just love it.

Just so that some of you who may not know about this Version 9.0 upgrade, let me go through what you can do with it with regard to surround sound.

My process is this:

I record the 4 channel quad tape in Vegas 8.0, ending up with the 4 mono files (or 6 5.1 files).

I just right click each of these once they are recorded and select "Open in Sound Forge". Once all 4 files are in Sound Forge, I create a new empty 4 channel sound file and paste each of the mono files into the 4 channel sound file.

This is great, because I can now listen to the surround playback right off the bat. It also means that I can easily delete the Q8 track selection "clicks" from all four channels at once, which makes it very easy as opposed to doing that with 2 stereo or 4 mono files.

Now Sound Forge has some tools that will work on a 4 channel sound file, but there are many plug ins that do not deal with 4 channel files at this time. NO BIG DEAL!

For example, any plug in will work as long as you only select two of the four channels at a time. For instance, I can select the 2 front channels from within the 4 channel file, run my NR "LEARN" and get a level for NR on the front stereo pair (or each mono file), run the NR, then repeat for the rears, all from within the single quad wav file!! Very nice, because you can play back and hear the results right there.

Having the 4 channels right there also makes it easy to adjust any level issues you may have, and also speed correct the files if needed.

Once you're done futzing around, you can save the file, or break it back into 4 mono files for use in SurCode DTS or MLP.

Having the 4 channel wav file makes conversion so much easier. No more writing down timings for edits, no more listening only to stereo pairs, it just makes it streamlined.

I'm sure that other programs can do this too, but I just thought I'd share this aspect of Sound Forge in case any of you have older versions and are pondering an upgrade.

Go forth and convert!!!

 

[Cai Campbell]

I've been with Sound Forge since version 4.5 as well! I've developed such a habit of working with files a certain way in the application that I didn't even think to explore the multichannel editing capabilites of version 9. Thanks for the tip, Jon!

I can't tell you how awesome it is to do cuts and fades across all four channels at once. I've been wanting to do this in Sound Forge for years! The only drag is that most of the plug-ins still only operate on one or two channels at a time (e.g. click and crackle removal, noise reduction, etc.) Maybe multi-chanel plug-ins will become more pervasive in version 10? We'll see, but in the meantime, this is HUGE improvement and a MAJOR time saver!

I love Sound Forge. I was afraid that Sony would munge it up somehow when they bought Sonic Foundry, but I'm happy to say that they've remained true to the product.

 

[JonUrban]

I'm glad it's not just me!

Like I said, even though a lot of plug-ins don't work with 4 channel files, you can highlight/select one or two of the channels within the 4 channel wav file and the plug-in will work!!! This way you don't have to create stereo pairs then put them back together.

After years of writing down timings to the 1/1000th of a second for edits, it's a pure joy to do all 4 channels at once in SECONDS!!

Thanks to Sony for not screwing this program up!

 

[Bob Romano]

I actually have been recording into SF9 and then after editing the whole program the way I want it, I just highlight each channel, and copy and paste to a new Mono wav or a stereo pair. Then, if the entire program is too big to save as a regular wav file (2GB or more) then i save it to a .w64 until I am done with the project. I just wish that SF would get past that whole 2GB thing period.

 

[JonUrban]

Actually, I've never tried recording directly into SF before, I've always used Vegas. I'll have to try that next time.

Is the 2Gb "thing" a Sound Forge deal or a limitation of the wav format?

 

[Bob Romano]

I can record any size into Audition and it will save over 2GB but I really dislike Audition for anything other than decoding. I think that the 2GB size limit was an old problem of winME or possibly FAT32. I don't think that the same holds true in WinXP especially using NTFS format.

 

[Bob Romano]

Actually 2GB is for FAT16. 4GB is FAT32. I don't think that NTFS has a file size limit.

 

[georgeshannon]

Did you check the box for "Allow Wave Renders up to 4 GB" in OPTIONS/PREFERENCES/GENERAL ?

That might help a little. Beats 2 GB per wave file.

 

[Bob Romano]

I don't know what version you are using but the one I have (9.0a) doesnt have that.

 

[Cai Campbell]

I don't know what version you are using but the one I have (9.0a) doesnt have that.

I have 9.0e and it has that option. Bob, you should be able to download an update.

 

[Bob Romano]

Did you check the box for "Allow Wave Renders up to 4 GB" in OPTIONS/PREFERENCES/GENERAL ?

That might help a little. Beats 2 GB per wave file.

Thanks for the heads up!!

 

[Bob Romano]

I have 9.0e and it has that option. Bob, you should be able to download an update.

And you too Cai!

 

[georgeshannon]

Thanks for the heads up!!

Yes, I have 9.0e as well. You're welcome. Glad I could help.

 

[georgeshannon]

How does one edit all 4 channels at once? I tried this once and ended up accessing only one channel at a time. Is there a trick to this or did I miss something that's as easy as it sounds?

 

[JonUrban]

How does one edit all 4 channels at once? I tried this once and ended up accessing only one channel at a time. Is there a trick to this or did I miss something that's as easy as it sounds?

You have to create a 4 channel wave file from your 4 mono files. Just go File/New and select the proper bit depth, etc, and 4 channels. Then paste the first channel into the empty file, then overwrite the other 3 channels with your mono files.

 

[Cai Campbell]

Once you get a four-channel file set up and populated with waves, your editing actions can be based on any combination of one, two, three or all four channels. Single-channel selection is done via cursor actions in the middle of a wave. All-channel selection is done via cursor actions on the border between waves. Alternatively, you can make a selection on one wave then click on the channel numbers (in the left margin) while holding down the "ctrl" key. Using the ctrl-click method, you can turn on and off selections for individual waves.

The above holds for standard editing actions. For advanced processing that use plug-ins, you'll only be able to operate on one or two waves at a time. For this reason, I have found that it is easier to do all the advanced editing on the individual wave files. For example, I can start click and crackle removal on all four files while they are individual mono files. Only two files will be processed at the same time, but I can at least queue all four up and the system will start the second two after the first two are done, and all four will be done by the time I get back from the fridge with another Coke. If I do the same thing in four-channel mode, I can start processing on two waves but cannot queue up the other two; I have to wait until the first two are done (i.e. they cannot be queued). This actually slows me down.

So, I do click and crackle removal and noise reduction on the individual mono wav files, then pull them into a four-channel file for track editing (fades, etc.) then save back to individual files for encoding purposes. Not as clean as it could be but a world better than it has been in the past!

 

[georgeshannon]

Thank you both very much. When editing directly from Acid, I get a cascade of 6 mono windows. Saving the files as a Multicahannel wave is the key.

"All-channel selection is done via cursor actions on the border between waves."

And this is about the only place I have not yet clicked attempting to do this.

You guys are awesome. Thanks again.

 

[timbre4]

Nice to see the encouraging feature developments, when I get to the archived band/demo reels. To date, they've been digitized, then opened in ACID for mixing. ACID projects can be re-opened to play around with but there is definitely a clean-up factor that will bring me back to this thread.

Related topic

My earliest SF 9.0 experience (Jan/Feb '08) was terrible; that great edit feel / cross-fades magic was clearly tampered with. The behavior of the arrow keys and precision of the scale of a highlighted region to work on when zoomed up was as if you had to use puppet strings to manipulate it and they were suddenly broken. You had to be there, but be thankful you weren't.

I went to the Sony/SF forums and found a legion of users that experienced the same feeling and reverted to SF 8.0d. Afraid I joined them to finish a DVD soundtrack project for a friend. It required lots of fixes made possible by those cross-fades and was probably the right move at the time.

Made mention of this saga because it seemed like Cai's fear was realized for a time; they tampered with the core functionality in this regard. I'll have to keep 8.0d on my main machine and ease back into 9.0 for the surround aspects on another PC.

 

[Cai Campbell]

I guess I haven't been using Sound Forge in such a way as to notice anything different in the "look and fee" department. In fact, that is what I appreciate about the product, it behaves largely the same as it always has and any changes have been for the better (at least in my experience).

So, I guess it boils down to how you use the product and what features you rely upon. I guess I should count myself lucky not to be in your shoes Tim, but I certainly feel for you and those who see version 9 as a step back from 8.