More ELP remasters/releases/reissues - Deja Vu All Over Again!

Preface: The Great Oscar Wilde wrote:
"There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about."

DennisMoore Jr. humbly submits:
"Not being talked about is deadly close to being forgotten. To be forgotten is the single greatest threat to the furtherance
of music in surround"

So I say to the following news: Bring - It - On.

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November 26th, 2015

http://prog.teamrock.com/news/2015-11-26/emerson-lake-palmer-sign-catalogue-over-to-bmg

"Emerson, Lake & Palmer have signed over their back catalogue to BMG.
Also included in the deal are master tapes, demos, alternative versions, radio sessions, videos, rare photos, memorabilia and bootlegs. As a result, BMG are planning an extensive reissue campaign..."
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I think this is FANTASTIC news. Carl Palmer was not happy with the prior surround releases... Greg Lake heard them and said he "preferred Quad". So maybe there is fresh motivation to produce "Moore" 5.1 remixes.

Although I'm happy to have my Steven Wilson & Jakko 5.1 remixes, they are far from perfect. No need to dig up all the old dirt.

Dreaming of possible future ELP magic:

Pirates & Fanfare in 5.1 surround. THIS, lads needs to happen. And actually Greg Lake's entire side from Works I is outstanding and needs 5.1, not to mention Keith's concerto.(Any keyboard players lurking around here?)

Welcome Back My Friends... in surround. Nuff Said.

A complete 5.1 remix of ELP - ELP. Perhaps the missing multi-tracks have been found.

A reference remix of Brain Salad Surgery. (The 2002 5.1 mix was done analog, running the multi-tracks live through a board then through A/D converters, lacking any opportunity for the application of any digital magic.) And the 2014 remix butchered KE9 3rd Imp.)

Tarkus in 5.1 done proper. The more I play the title track(SW remix) the less happy I am with it.

uh.. Pictures At An Exhibition in 5.1. Hello!!! McFly!!!

Lots of debate sure to follow, but one fact remains. Prior to BMG taking over, ALL ELP projects were dead & I dare say forgotten.

Oscar Wilde would be proud that Emerson, lake & Palmer are at least being "talked about" again.

Hope springs eternal, once more.


P.S. Plan9(Thomas) should do the 5.1 remixes. I've heard his work and he "gets it" he has a fabulous ear for surround mixing.

I'm all about Love Beach.

edisonbaggins said:

I'm all about Love Beach.

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LOL. Although that record is universally scorned. I love "Memoirs of an Officer and a Gentleman". That is a fine ELP composition, although Keith really had some balls to end an epic rock opus with a millitary march. :brew

Ah yes, remixing the already remixed ELP 5.1 albums to "make them better." You know how here in the US we can put pre-tax money into a Health Savings Account? Well I'm thinking that the US government should subsidize our addiction by giving us pre-tax Surround Sound Savings Accounts for repurchases of these titles over and over and over and over...

Oh gawd.. don't do the same bloody albums in 5.1 all over again.. let's have the rest of their catalogue remixed in surround please..!!

While we're on this topic, what is the best version of BSS to be on the lookout for? IIRC, there are two surround mixes and one is a bit better? Or they both have their quirks?
Thanks for any 411!

edisonbaggins said:

While we're on this topic, what is the best version of BSS to be on the lookout for? IIRC, there are two surround mixes and one is a bit better? Or they both have their quirks?
Thanks for any 411!

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Depends on who you ask. I think that with the exception of "Karn Evil 9 3rd Impression" the 2014 surround mix is the better mix. It's more discrete than the 2000 mix with a "warmer" quality to the sound. In order to purchase it however, you either need to buy the 6-disc box set or there's a Japanese 3-disc version you can also purchase. Just be aware that the new 3-disc edition sold in the US and in Europe is just a stereo-only DVDA with the surround mix absent. It's all very confusing, but myself or others can verify if you're purchasing the right edition depending on what links you stumble across.

Put me down for the first ELP album with the missing tracks and most especially "TANK"!!! Without Tank in surround that album does not complete itself, hell every single track leads up to the (crescendo) TANK track! This is a "must" I think.

Welcome back in Quad is my wish for a near future release, sooner the better.And Works would be cool.

As for the remainder of the first few.....meh. (little or no interest).

rtbluray said:

Just be aware that the new 3-disc edition sold in the US and in Europe is just a stereo-only DVDA with the surround mix absent.

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Funny you should mention that. I accidentally picked up this stereo-only DVD-A version from a brick and mortar shop last weekend. Upon reading the fine print I discovered it has no 5.1.
Fortunately, it was purchased with store credit, having turned in CDs and DVDs I was never going to enjoy again. Still, kind of a bummer.
But, from your description, BSS sounds like a good candidate for a 3rd surround mix!!!

DennisMoore Jr. said:

P.S. Plan9(Thomas) should do the 5.1 remixes. I've heard his work and he "gets it" he has a fabulous ear for surround mixing.

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Ahah, thanks for the sentiment Mr Moore! But if all the ELP multis are in the same state as Mr Jakszyk describes in his liner notes, I shudder to the thought I could be asked to make sense of all of it. And I'm just a fan of the first 3 albums... but also like BSS and WBMF.
Maybe if I'm paid handsomely and the multis are pre-tidied up, so I can't be blamed if a wrong take is used. And even then Steven and Jakko are the toughest acts to follow... Don't think I am on the same level yet.

fredblue said:

Oh gawd.. don't do the same bloody albums in 5.1 all over again.. let's have the rest of their catalogue remixed in surround please..!!

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Easy laddie. My desire is not to have you waste the few remaining pounds from the little wooden box under your coffee table.. We are hoping for the unreleased stuff. Welcome Back, Pictures... & Works I & II. I mentioned the existing ones only cause there was so much controversy with Tarkus & BSS AND the fact that YES - Fragile seems to have been reborn the 2nd time. :music


@edisonbaggins: For Brain Salad Surgery, Karn Evil 9 3rd Impression was ruined on the 2014 remaster. Look for the original 2001ish DVD or the later SACD(they both have the same older 5.1 "analog" mix. But the original mix does mess up Benny The Bouncer.) But you do need the 3 impressions of Karn Evil 9 done properly. So you need the original.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EMERSON-LAK...321582?hash=item235db9ee2e:g:XxMAAOSwLzdWTfpx

Only $35.99. Prices on this have come WAY DOWN. :yikes

Argh. This actually pisses me off. I was beginning to see some linearity in the Wilson and Jakszyk reissues. Now they start fucking about again.

The thing about ELP's reissues is that it's not merely a lack of source material, it's a lack of organization.
Shall I give you an example? The Manticore Special. The BBC have the original footage in 16mm and rebroadcast it in 2009. Excerpts from this transfer were used in Beyond The Beginning. When they included it in the BSS deluxe edition, it was the old dodgy video transfer from the 90s with all the greens and blues. URGH!
Another example is the wealth of material they found on the BSS mutltiracks. There is a complete list here:
http://www.brain-salad-surgery.de/40th_anniversary_super_deluxe_edition.html
They could have filled an entire CD with the jams alone. There was also a lot of alternate Trilogy material. And yet all we got was the 2007 bonus tracks plus instrumental mixes of KE93rdI and BSS the song on the Brain Salad Surgery reissue and an alternate moog solo on From The Beginning on Trilogy. BOLLOCKS!

Maybe they will FINALLY get it right this time. Too many fuck ups in the ELP story for me to take it seriously, though. Pfft.

So they're switching from Sony to BMG. Same company.

cupboy said:

So they're switching from Sony to BMG. Same company.

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No, Good Sir cupboy.

Sony & BMG are separate and comprise two of the "big four" music corporations.

DennisMoore Jr. said:

No, Good Sir cupboy.

Sony & BMG are separate and comprise two of the "big three" music corporations.

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When did Sony divest itself of BMG/RCA?

Circular Vibes said:

When did Sony divest itself of BMG/RCA?

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It didn't so much "Divest"(sell off BMG) but Sony bought out its partner in "BMG" and renamed the entity
Sony Music Entertainment. That freed up the name BMG and it wound up with another life in Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG

Sony BMG Music Entertainment was a record music company, which was a 50–50 joint venture
between the Sony Corporation of America and Bertelsmann AG... ...On August 5, 2008 Sony Corporation
agreed to buy Bertelsmann AG's 50 percent stake in the music company for $1.2 billion to get full control.
The music company will be renamed Sony Music Entertainment Inc...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMG_Rights_Management

BMG is an international group of music companies focused on the management of music publishing,
recording rights and music distribution. The company operates as a wholly owned subsidiary of the
international media conglomerate Bertelsmann, its name being the legacy of the former BMG, which
was sold to Sony Music Entertainment in 2008. The company was established in 2008 as a joint venture
between Bertelsmann and the global private equity firm KKR...In March 2013, Bertelsmann took over BMG
by acquiring KKR’s shares, making BMG a fully owned subsidiary of the Bertelsmann group. The company's
head office is in Berlin, and it operates regional offices in New York, Nashville, Los Angeles, London, Madrid,
Milan, Paris, Munich, Stockholm, Hilversum, and Beijing. BMG is the youngest major international company
in the music industry.

Point is: BMG just paid a bunch of $$$ for the rights to sell ELP's music(for an unknown time). They
did not pay $$$ to squat on ELP's intellectual property. So we can expect to get more ELP reissues for better or worse.
I choose to be optomistic and dream of the possibilities. Hence, this thread. :music

fizzywiggs41 said:

Welcome back in Quad is my wish for a near future release, sooner the better.

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A complete remix would be nice. But as I've posted before, the original quad mix is bizarre - sometimes there's nothing at all in the rear channels. Other times, there's only echo-y ambience and the Moog as is spins about the soundfield.

J. D.

An update on this story.
If anyone thought that surround sound would figure into BMG's reissue plans, well, think again:
http://teamrock.com/news/2016-05-27/elp-anthology-and-first-3-albums-to-be-reissued

BTW, their description of "Pictures at an Exhibition" is super confusing. In the paragraph, they say this reissue features a "new remix" of the album, and yet above the track listing, it says "The original album with 2016 remaster". So what is it?

Oh, and that reminds me:

I F*CKING HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE INTERCHANGE REMIX & REMASTER! THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING!!!

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Awww crap ! No mention of surround on those reissues..

fizzywiggs41 said:

Awww crap ! No mention of surround on those reissues..

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No surround - I ain't biting then.... Good for my wallet!



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