Any way to use main-in pre-out on Sansui 9001 connected to some sort of pre-in main out on 2010 Denon 4310? Will explain. . .

[Quadgirl]

Hi everyone. It’s been several years since I’ve been here as I’ve spent some time adjusting to some health situation’s. But I’m back in my hobby, and I really would love to solve the ongoing dilemma that could make my system perfect. It may not be possible. And it may not be your cup of tea so let me explain what I would love to do. I have two side-by-side systems in my den. My wonderful Sansui, 9001 and its sources (I play q8s and listen to all three formats of quad, yes even cd-4, with Technics sh-500 demodulator and use Zektor switch to choose which q8 deck and Oppo for Dutton Vocalion and other hi-rez sources). All played thorough klipsch, La Scala, front channels and Kilpsch Rear channels. My other system with its front speakers just inside the LaScala’s in the front is a Denon 4310ci from 2010. It has its own sources, another Oppo, modern Rega tt and Jolida phono preamp, vintage Akai rtr deck and Nakamichi LX5 cassette deck (I just swap it and Akai using front of unit jacks, for convenience. The speakers are Canadian made Axiom tall towers, side surround speakers and sub (I also have some rears I could use for 7.1, but not connected right now). What I ultimately aim to do in the easiest fashion, if at all possible, and I have thought and thought for years about how exactly I would like this, is to basically, (but I image very complicated): Switch between receivers to use each receiver with the other receiver’s source components. Like I would love to hear the Denon and its sources on the 4 Klipsch’s, like maybe hear my Rega 2 channel on the La Scalas. Likewise, I would love to play q8s on the Axioms - all 4 channels and sub. And hear my Marantz 6300 tt on the Axioms - even if it could not use cd-4 if that is impossible, would still love to hear that table on the Axioms.

So all this is like just listening to one or the other receiver through the other speakers. I have not yet understood about how in the world to use amp and or speaker selectors with all the confusion of a 4 channel system and a 5.1 or 7.1 and mixing vintage with modern. Perhaps a way to switch whole speakers systems only would do this? But I have always wondered about pre-out main in. I read in Denon manual that hdmi sources can’t be used if I tried the zones to connect all this. I will attach a picture of Denon rear to help. And I do not want to harm any system.

I hope that is enough to help understand what I would like. Better yet I would love it if anyone has done this before. And I never did buy a Surround Master, but is it something that could work in with this? I don’t know what its role would be, if any, but liked the people making it when I investigated years ago. I am such a Gemini in that I love dedicated systems and in a perfect world could have a great 2-channel setup, my vintage setup and HT setup (Ht is least important, but I do like it). I can take the reality of all this if you have bad news for me, so no worries about giving me the hard truth or even suggesting other ways to use my systems. I love opinions whether I agree or don’t. So please help if you can. I am grateful to feel good now and have interest in my hobby again! And I truly may go down another rabbit hole and learn about separates for the modern system that could allow me the best 2-channel reproduction. Heck, I may even learn about streaming. So I am wide open to how to proceed or just be happy where I am. And I am happy, but just looking to maximize flexibility which is hard with vintage versus new. Maybe I need to get a great vintage stereo receiver and play modern tt on it? So I am wide open for any and all opinions and if my pie-in-the-sky idea is doable in any way, please let me know specifics on hooking it up.

Thanks as always! I never could have gotten i to this hobby without Jon and Linda and Doug and so many others of you. I appreciate you! Take care.
Laura (quadgirl)

 

[Quadgirl]

Hi everyone. It’s been several years since I’ve been here as I’ve spent some time adjusting to some health situation’s. But I’m back in my hobby, and I really would love to solve the ongoing dilemma that could make my system perfect. It may not be possible. And it may not be your cup of tea so let me explain what I would love to do. I have two side-by-side systems in my den. My wonderful Sansui, 9001 and its sources (I play q8s and listen to all three formats of quad, yes even cd-4, with Technics sh-500 demodulator and use Zektor switch to choose which q8 deck and Oppo for Dutton Vocalion and other hi-rez sources). All played thorough klipsch, La Scala, front channels and Kilpsch Rear channels. My other system with its front speakers just inside the LaScala’s in the front is a Denon 4310ci from 2010. It has its own sources, another Oppo, modern Rega tt and Jolida phono preamp, vintage Akai rtr deck and Nakamichi LX5 cassette deck (I just swap it and Akai using front of unit jacks, for convenience. The speakers are Canadian made Axiom tall towers, side surround speakers and sub (I also have some rears I could use for 7.1, but not connected right now). What I ultimately aim to do in the easiest fashion, if at all possible, and I have thought and thought for years about how exactly I would like this, is to basically, (but I image very complicated): Switch between receivers to use each receiver with the other receiver’s source components. Like I would love to hear the Denon and its sources on the 4 Klipsch’s, like maybe hear my Rega 2 channel on the La Scalas. Likewise, I would love to play q8s on the Axioms - all 4 channels and sub. And hear my Marantz 6300 tt on the Axioms - even if it could not use cd-4 if that is impossible, would still love to hear that table on the Axioms.

So all this is like just listening to one or the other receiver through the other speakers. I have not yet understood about how in the world to use amp and or speaker selectors with all the confusion of a 4 channel system and a 5.1 or 7.1 and mixing vintage with modern. Perhaps a way to switch whole speakers systems only would do this? But I have always wondered about pre-out main in. I read in Denon manual that hdmi sources can’t be used if I tried the zones to connect all this. I will attach a picture of Denon rear to help. And I do not want to harm any system.

I hope that is enough to help understand what I would like. Better yet I would love it if anyone has done this before. And I never did buy a Surround Master, but is it something that could work in with this? I don’t know what its role would be, if any, but liked the people making it when I investigated years ago. I am such a Gemini in that I love dedicated systems and in a perfect world could have a great 2-channel setup, my vintage setup and HT setup (Ht is least important, but I do like it). I can take the reality of all this if you have bad news for me, so no worries about giving me the hard truth or even suggesting other ways to use my systems. I love opinions whether I agree or don’t. So please help if you can. I am grateful to feel good now and have interest in my hobby again! And I truly may go down another rabbit hole and learn about separates for the modern system that could allow me the best 2-channel reproduction. Heck, I may even learn about streaming. So I am wide open to how to proceed or just be happy where I am. And I am happy, but just looking to maximize flexibility which is hard with vintage versus new. Maybe I need to get a great vintage stereo receiver and play modern tt on it? So I am wide open for any and all opinions and if my pie-in-the-sky idea is doable in any way, please let me know specifics on hooking it up.

Thanks as always! I never could have gotten i to this hobby without Jon and Linda and Doug and so many others of you. I appreciate you! Take care.
Laura (quadgirl)

I have a 3 minute video using my system yesterday and will try to post here. It is probably too lon, but will try. Thanks.

 

[Electric Moo]

It may be possible if your AVR has multichannel analog ins. And the 9001 has multichannel pre-outs. But you'll have to use the AVR's poweramps to use the same speakers. IMO

Or. If they both have multichannel analog ins + outs, you could rig up some RCA switchboxes between them? But might end up with ground loops. And would need a way to disconnect the set of switches that aren't in use.

Somebody here has probably tried to do just that?

 

[par4ken]

Looking at the connection diagram for the 9001 I don't see any pre-out/main-in jacks. They usually come with preinstalled jumpers. Removing such jumpers separates the receiver's preamplifier from the power amplifier. If doing it that way you might need a selector switch box to switch between the two, rather than always swapping cables around.

Assuming that no such jacks are present you could patch from the 4CH tape line outputs (recorder inputs) into the Denon. That connection will not let you use the tone controls of the 9001 on the Denon but still all the Sansui connected sources should play via the Denon, the matrix decoder circuitry included.

Going the other way take the outputs from the Denon and patch it to the Sansui 4CH tape input jacks. You will only be able to patch over four of the Denon's outputs to the Sansui.

Using the Sansui 4CH Tape monitor connection it will be switchable as Sansui normal operation when switched to source. To play the Denon on the Sansui turn the monitor switch to tape.

 

[Quadgirl]

It may be possible if your AVR has multichannel analog ins. And the 9001 has multichannel pre-outs. But you'll have to use the AVR's poweramps to use the same speakers. IMO

Or. If they both have multichannel analog ins + outs, you could rig up some RCA switchboxes between them? But might end up with ground loops. And would need a way to disconnect the set of switches that aren't in use.

Somebody here has probably tried to do just that?

Thanks. I do appreciate the input. It may be simpler to enjoy what I have as is and I am certainly open to keeping the status quo as well

 

[Quadgirl]

Looking at the connection diagram for the 9001 I don't see any pre-out/main-in jacks. They usually come with preinstalled jumpers. Removing such jumpers separates the receiver's preamplifier from the power amplifier. If doing it that way you might need a selector switch box to switch between the two, rather than always swapping cables around.

Assuming that no such jacks are present you could patch from the 4CH tape line outputs (recorder inputs) into the Denon. That connection will not let you use the tone controls of the 9001 on the Denon but still all the Sansui connected sources should play via the Denon, the matrix decoder circuitry included.

Going the other way take the outputs from the Denon and patch it to the Sansui 4CH tape input jacks. You will only be able to patch over four of the Denon's outputs to the Sansui.

Using the Sansui 4CH Tape monitor connection it will be switchable as Sansui normal operation when switched to source. To play the Denon on the Sansui turn the monitor switch to tape.

Thank-you, par4ken! This is helpful and I did not even check - just assumed the jumpers were on pre-out main in. This is very helpful. I did end up playing quad albums and tapes yesterday and think I will not upset the applecart. The older I get, the harder it is to emember how to engage what in order to play various sources. I made a cheat sheet and still will forget to push in this or switch that control down. But I enjoyed my system and realized I do not need more confusion. Maybe ultimately I will change the HT setup to be more oriented to high quality 2-channel listening - maybe try new front channel speakers or go with separates if I can budget for that or maybe set up a switch between Klipsch and Axiom front channels to hear the different speakers as 2-channel modern stuff. I am blessed to have gotten in this when things were more affordable and to have been guided to good equipment from qq community. I wonder if others get the itch to change things up at times? And if I sit back and don’t act impulsively, I can really appreciate what I have and that it keeps on working and that I finally have fewer boxes to mess with where things can become disconnected or rca cables need replacing or pushing in better and whatnot. But I do love to think about all this and your thoughts are very much appreciated. Thanks!

 

[LB-V]

Hello Quadgirl. I am thankful you are feeling healthy and able to enjoy a little audio again.

For years I had a personal requirement that whatever components I had, they must be playable / usable / integrated into the operating audio system. I had several vintage amps, a modern AV, quad and stereo. At one time, I had the ability to play any of three amps in quad or stereo using an option of my Klipsch 4.0 speakers and sub, or running any through a two speaker set up of different speakers.

The little units I used to do so were two different models that performed the same function. My preferred unit was made by Speciaty AV, model SP-71 "Amp /:Speaker Controller".

I have to admit, I had to use a great deal of these little babies due to muti channel and I had to daisy chain them in places to effectively increase the selection options. It was a bit complicated. But, when running, I could switch easily between amps and speakers. It was quite fun.

What I ultimately found though, is that I always gravitated to what my ears said sounded the best. I would switch things around, but quickly ended up with my favorite combination and sometimes went months or years without listening to some other component.

And they introduced a mess of speaker cable nests that I got tired of after a while.

Anyway, it is possible to switch between different amps and go to different speakers. It was fun...

Here is a pic of the selector:

 

[Quadgirl]

Thanks, LB-V! I appreciate that experience you have had and feel I would ultimately find the same. I know there will always be allure in switching any or all components - just for fun! I do love both sound and equipment, and I actually have tinnitus probably due to concerts, excessively loud car stereos when I was younger (well really probably until I was 50, now am 60,,but still 17) and loud home volumes, so not sure my ears would know anything except that which I prefer.

So now. . . guess what? I have been buying a few pieces last few years that I thought would help in this project whenever I would have time to really think, which also gets me in trouble, and I'm gonna post pictures of these. And one of them is the one you mentioned!

I am very curious if you know anything about the last one I'm going to show (I will surprise you when you view pics) because I just can't find much online and I'm wondering why there would be five sets of speaker inputs rather than an even number. it is vintage, but is it for guitar amps or something or is it useful say in my setup? So, now I am making myself curious again.

And here is another idea: I sort of hate telling about my equipment because it could sound braggy, but it's really not because I've been buying stuff since the 90s. I actually also have a Marantz 4400 and I am wondering if there were an easy way to switch between the Sansui and the Marantz, but don't want to compromise the way the demodulator and all that is tied in to the 9001. Meaning, could I use one of these, or more, devices to switch between those two receivers, same speakers? In an easy way.

And now, of course, back to original idea of switching between 9001 and Denon as my first question asked. If there is something to do without too much crazy wiring, either scenario, could you tell me specific jacks or connectors to plug into? i know that is much to ask, so no worries if too time-consuming. i know I am fine with all as it is and I can just manually swap between 9001 and 4400 because not too much stuff on the receiver backs if doing that.

Finally, what in the world can you tell my about the vintage switcher, if you know? i am just so curious about it. Thanks for giving me clear insight. i really just don't understand the amp/speaker stuff like how the switches seem to let you do either one in same jacks. Seems like they would be proprietary.

Okay, I have now opened all of the can of worms and will be happy to do exactly nothing and/or learn what is possible and maybe try things out. Win-win! Thanks for the great help! Take care. See attached pics. If you will.

 

[par4ken]

Rather cool that Rotel selector system. Something that a retailer might use to demonstrate different speakers connected to the same amplifier. Connected the other way to demonstrate different amplifiers on one set of speakers.

RCA jacks used for speakers was common in the sixties and very early seventies, especially with budget equipment. It fell out of favour in part due to the fact that you could inadvertently plug your expensive phono cartridge into the speaker output by mistake and fry the cartridge. With those RCA jacks it would be easy to use the switch for line level signals rather than for speakers, if you wanted/needed to.

 

[barfle]

Don’t worry about bragging on your gear or collection! Most of us love to talk shop,like that. And I hope your health issues are long gone.

I may have missed something in your OP, but it sounds like you want to play all your sources through either amp/speaker setup you have. If that’s the case, I would try using Y connectors to distribute your source audio to both amplifiers if they have the capacity. If you’re stuck with HDMI from a component, there are splitters available, although they might play havoc with the digital rights management (DRM) on many recordings.

I’m always happy to find a lady interested in what often seems to be a male-dominated hobby. Welcome back, and let’s see how your adventure goes forward.

 

[LB-V]

@Quadgirl, I think you and I have a similar vein in this hobby...I love the vintage gear and fooling with it as much as anything and just having it in operation.

I will take some time to sketch a sample diagram of how you could select between listening to more than 2 amps with two sets of speaker. I'll get something over, hopefully by the end of the weekend!

On a side note, I decided to relocate / reorganize my entire system. I actually unplugged everything and am now starting from scratch. Sounds daunting, but I'm so excited about the project! The fun is endless in this hobby as we just follow our hearts with it!

 

[Quadgirl]

Don’t worry about bragging on your gear or collection! Most of us love to talk shop,like that. And I hope your health issues are long gone.

I may have missed something in your OP, but it sounds like you want to play all your sources through either amp/speaker setup you have. If that’s the case, I would try using Y connectors to distribute your source audio to both amplifiers if they have the capacity. If you’re stuck with HDMI from a component, there are splitters available, although they might play havoc with the digital rights management (DRM) on many recordings.

I’m always happy to find a lady interested in what often seems to be a male-dominated hobby. Welcome back, and let’s see how your adventure goes forward.

Thanks barfle! Glad to be back and appreciate your idea on the y connectors.

 

[Quadgirl]

@Quadgirl, I think you and I have a similar vein in this hobby...I love the vintage gear and fooling with it as much as anything and just having it in operation.

I will take some time to sketch a sample diagram of how you could select between listening to more than 2 amps with two sets of speaker. I'll get something over, hopefully by the end of the weekend!

On a side note, I decided to relocate / reorganize my entire system. I actually unplugged everything and am now starting from scratch. Sounds daunting, but I'm so excited about the project! The fun is endless in this hobby as we just follow our hearts with it!

Yes we are peas in a pod, LB-V! I did a disassemble and start over a couple of years ago and things are a little simpler now. I do love messing with things and have caused myself problems but always learn something and find new ways to use the systems. Thanks for the diagram in advance! And no worries about time. I am in no rush. I appreciate it! And totally agree with following our hearts with this hobby!

 

[MidiMagic]

What you need is two sets of multiple input selectors in parallel. A set of selectors is several selectors cascaded.

Use splitters to feed each source to both sets of selectors. Then any source can be used by either system.

This does not work for magnetic phono pickups or tape recorders.

I have two rotary 12-input selectors wired together.

 

[Quadgirl]

What you need is two sets of multiple input selectors in parallel. A set of selectors is several selectors cascaded.

Use splitters to feed each source to both sets of selectors. Then any source can be used by either system.

This does not work for magnetic phono pickups or tape recorders.

I have two rotary 12-input selectors wired together.

Thanks, Midimagic. I appreciate the response and will brush up on my vocabulary (I am always learning) and get a mental picture of this. Certainly goo to know what is possible.

 

[HiFiMan]

Thanks, LB-V! I appreciate that experience you have had and feel I would ultimately find the same. I know there will always be allure in switching any or all components - just for fun! I do love both sound and equipment, and I actually have tinnitus probably due to concerts, excessively loud car stereos when I was younger (well really probably until I was 50, now am 60,,but still 17) and loud home volumes, so not sure my ears would know anything except that which I prefer.

So now. . . guess what? I have been buying a few pieces last few years that I thought would help in this project whenever I would have time to really think, which also gets me in trouble, and I'm gonna post pictures of these. And one of them is the one you mentioned!

I am very curious if you know anything about the last one I'm going to show (I will surprise you when you view pics) because I just can't find much online and I'm wondering why there would be five sets of speaker inputs rather than an even number. it is vintage, but is it for guitar amps or something or is it useful say in my setup? So, now I am making myself curious again.

And here is another idea: I sort of hate telling about my equipment because it could sound braggy, but it's really not because I've been buying stuff since the 90s. I actually also have a Marantz 4400 and I am wondering if there were an easy way to switch between the Sansui and the Marantz, but don't want to compromise the way the demodulator and all that is tied in to the 9001. Meaning, could I use one of these, or more, devices to switch between those two receivers, same speakers? In an easy way.

And now, of course, back to original idea of switching between 9001 and Denon as my first question asked. If there is something to do without too much crazy wiring, either scenario, could you tell me specific jacks or connectors to plug into? i know that is much to ask, so no worries if too time-consuming. i know I am fine with all as it is and I can just manually swap between 9001 and 4400 because not too much stuff on the receiver backs if doing that.

Finally, what in the world can you tell my about the vintage switcher, if you know? i am just so curious about it. Thanks for giving me clear insight. i really just don't understand the amp/speaker stuff like how the switches seem to let you do either one in same jacks. Seems like they would be proprietary.

Okay, I have now opened all of the can of worms and will be happy to do exactly nothing and/or learn what is possible and maybe try things out. Win-win! Thanks for the great help! Take care. See attached pics. If you will.

Hi Laura and everyone. I see by your pics you have a TEC 616 selector. I have one in my living room setup; 2 receivers to 1 pair of speakers. It works great and has been very reliable. Here is a more sophisticated selector if you ever have a need; https://www.outdoorspeakerdepot.com...e-automatic-speaker-selector-remote-atm7.html I spent months searching for a selector like this and finally found this one. It's pricey, but it's also very robust. I am utilizing 5 of these units in my dedicated listening room. They are connected in such a manner as to give me the capability to choose from 26 sources (receivers and amps/integrated amps) to listen on 7 pairs of speakers; think 70s stereo showroom. I have a 90s Marantz AVR and also a 9001. I have the front channels of both units connected to the ATM-7s system. The rear channels of both receivers are directly connected to their own dedicated rear speakers; since the ATM-7s can only switch stereo pairs; so only the front speakers are selectable. I also have searched high and low for an RCA switch so I could switch my TT between 3 receivers. Still haven't found one. The problem is, every one I have tried uses a common ground for all 3 pairs of jacks. This causes some funky "feedback" (at least in my system). I could have one custom built with isolated grounds, but it would be costly, so I haven't got to that point yet. For now, I've located all 3 pairs of cables coming from the receivers in one conveinient place near the TT and just connect them as needed (I call it a "hand switch". Hope you or someone finds this info useful.

 

[Quadgirl]

Wow, HifiMan! This looks like what I want. I may save up for this and use it like you. That is ideal! I would love to have that and very well may save up and try it. Thanks a bunch for the suggestion! I appreciate it very, vey much!
Laura